If 45 resigned and...

[SHRED]

...Pence pardoned 45 and his family, wouldn't this put Pence in legal jeopardy?

[Shell_Seas]

1. Don't you think Comrade Cheeto's ego would prevent him from resigning?

I just don't see it happening.

[unblock]

4. he'd do it for money and/or praise of some other sort.

if he gets freedom, billions, a hotel in moscow, and a nobel peace prize for resigning, then yeah, he might.

it would be a really expensive deal, though....

[Shell_Seas]

7. He will NEVER get the nobel peace prize.

Could you imagine? Ugh.

[unblock]

13. He will never *earn* it

But I can imagine the nobel committee thinking it would be worth it as part of a deal for him to go away....

[tinrobot]

16. It never stopped him from declaring bankruptcy.

I think he's not resigning because he'd have to give up his legal immunity and pardon power.

[unblock]

2. in theory, yes; in practice, probably not likely.

personally, i think it would be part of an obstruction of justice charge, especially if pence were found to have been involved in some of the crimes he was pardoning other people for.

in practice, i don't know that such a charge would be pursued, people would probably see it much like ford pardoning nixon. nixon clearly didn't deserve a pardon and the pardon prevented justice from being served. ford arguably paid a political price for it, but no there wasn't much contemplation of hitting him with an obstruction charge, afaik.

[getagrip_already]

3. the pardons would likely stand.... but

if pence were arguably a co-conspirator it could be considered obstruction. But, he would be potus and somewhat protected from indictment (if tiny doesn't buy an indictment, there is no way in hell pence would).

It would have to wait until he left office. But it could take 2 years to clear the courts anyway.

The real question is what would it do to his chances to be elected in 2020. He wouldn't have trumps baggage. But then again, ford didn't have nixon's either. didn't help he pardoned him.

My guess is trump would pardon his family himself, and leave his pardon to pence.

[unblock]

6. the way things are going, republicans will have even less of a chance in 2020 than they did in 2008.

the smart money knew early on in 2008 that the democratic primary was where the entire game was being played and the general was largely a formality because shrub screwed the brand for republicans.

it's looking very much like donnie's doing an even worse number of the republican brand this time....

much unknown, and much work to do, but there's certainly cause for optimism around 2020.

[Garrett78]

9. It's hard to not be optimistic about 2020. But still fresh in my mind is the devastation of 2016.

Still, I'm hopeful that we'll take back MI, PA and WI, which is all we need to reach 270. I'm cautiously optimistic that we can get in the 350 ballpark (with NC, FL, etc.). The days of a candidate winning 400+ are long gone.

[DFW]

15. You're right, but beware

The 2008 Democratic Primary battle became the de facto battle for the White House, and thus got nastier than was healthy for us. I think the 2020 Democratic primaries will be similar in that they will be a direct fight for the oval office. The media won't even bother following the Republican primaries due to their irrelevance.

it would be nice if the inner-Democratic contest THIS time were more toned down than the last two times, but if we thought we had some interference LAST time, just wait for what the Trolls from 55 Savushkina Street have in mind for us in 18 months. Twitter and Facebook will have to hire a team of full-time bouncers (unless they, themselves have already been taken over by the boys from St. Pete).

[Garrett78]

17. Unless someone such as Kasich challenges Trump.

I really hope our field of candidates is quickly reduced to less than a handful. I don't look forward to a circus filled with people who are really just trying to position themselves for VP or a cabinet post or a future run. Or candidates who suggest there's no real difference between the parties. Or candidates who suggest we need to win over bigots.

[unblock]

18. i'm finding it unusually hard to predict the republican primary this cycle

i'm torn between:

(a) omg, the republican powers that be know donnie is a disaster, and especially if the economy sours (as is widely predicted) and/or
the scandal level rises even more, he's so ripe for a challenge; and

(b) c'mon, there's just no way the hyper-partisan republican primary voters could possibly support anyone other than donnie, who goes all-in telling them that they are the only people who matter and everyone else in america can go to hell. besides, republicans ditching an incumbent president? really?

[Garrett78]

20. I think Trump will crush anyone who primaries him, but that may not keep someone from doing so.

Trump remains very popular among the Republican electorate. But someone such as Kasich, who really has nothing to lose, may challenge Trump. And some moneyed interests will give him support. Kasich is a horrible person, but he hides it better than Trump. And that's what really matters to the anti-Trump Republicans. Use a dog whistle and not a bullhorn. Don't be so obvious with the evil. These are people who still worship at the altar of Saint Ronnie, as if there's no linkage between the pre-Trump Republican Party and the rise of Trump. Like he just occurred in a vacuum.

[DFW]

22. Their primary? After such a circus twice in a row?

There will more than two and less than fifty, though my upper limit is not based on solid evidence, and may be conservative.

[Just a Weirdo]

5. Pence will also have to resign

Mueller's got the goods on him already thanks to Manafort.

[getagrip_already]

8. how so?

Mannafort's testimony is corrupt at this point. Unless he handed over physical evidence, it won't be used except against himself.

[Jarqui]

10. There is stuff on Pence relating to Flynn

Pence is not in the clear yet

Like President Gerald Ford, Pence could pardon Trump. Debatable whether they could make a stink about it - they couldn't with Nixon.

[DFW]

23. Ford was a well-liked and well-respected member of Congress

Pence is neither.

[Jarqui]

24. Pence isn't Ford, he's Spiro Agnew

The problem with Mike Pence’s ignorance defense
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/the-problem-mike-pences-ignorance-defense

...
The official story is that Pence made false statements, assuring the American public that Flynn hadn’t talked about sanctions with Russia, because Pence didn’t know better at the time. Flynn, the story goes, lied to Pence.

But based on the court filings surrounding Flynn’s guilty plea, we now know that investigators have evidence that Pence’s version of events is untenable: it wasn’t just Flynn, a bad apple operating alone, who knew that he was discussing sanctions with Russia; it was multiple members of the Trump transition team.

And the Trump transition team was led by Mike Pence. As Rachel explained:

“So the story can no longer be that Flynn – bad apple, rogue actor – lied to the vice president and that’s why the vice president told those unwitting lies to the American public. That is over. That can no longer be their rational contention.

“The story now has to be that not just Mike Flynn but the entire transition team that Mike Pence was overseeing all conspired together to lie to Mike Pence, and then agreed to keep the lie going for weeks and weeks as the vice president kept unwittingly repeating the lie to the American public. It’s either that or the vice president was lying on purpose, telling the American people something that he also knew was not true.”

It's like Murder on the Orient Express (which I actually found to be a fairly predictable plot): they were all in on it.

Flynn was alleged to have lied to Pence, the FBI and Sally Yates.
As Rachel flushed out, Pence was in on it too or grossly incompetent (which I doubt greatly).
Therefore, since lying to law enforcement is a crime, VP Pence probably = Spiro Agnew, criminal VP

Vice President Agnew resigns
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/vice-president-agnew-resigns

Less than a year before Richard M. Nixon’s resignation as president of the United States, Spiro Agnew becomes the first U.S. vice president to resign in disgrace. The same day, he pleaded no contest to a charge of federal income tax evasion in exchange for the dropping of charges of political corruption. He was subsequently fined $10,000, sentenced to three years probation, and disbarred by the Maryland court of appeals

It is one thing to lie in a civil case about a blow job like Bill Clinton. It is another to lie to law enforcement to help cover for the Russians messing with the 2016 election. Anyone who does that is not fit to be President. Or anyone too stupid to pick up on it is not fit to be President.

[onenote]

11. Probably not.

Political jeopardy yes. Legal jeopardy unlikely.

[elocs]

12. A big flaw with DUers is that they believe if they really, really want something to happen,

it will, life doesn't work that way. Wouldn't it be nice if all of the bad guys got what's coming to them, that Mueller will have Trump and Pence and all the others all tied up and marching off to prison. And then all the tens of millions of Trumpsters would just be raptured away and not trouble us anymore. That would be a real entertaining movie.

In the end, Trump has an ace in the hole--the Supreme Court. And they can drag this out for a long time, certainly most of the 2 years left in Trump's term of office.
I could see Trump eventually choosing not to run for reelection and resigning, declaring his presidency to be the most successful in history--greater than any other president and also declaring that there is a massive Liberal and media conspiracy against him. Pence will pardon Trump and everybody who needs to be pardoned and then let it be fought out in court, all the way to the Supreme Court and what might happen there, I wonder?

One way or another we will be rid of Trump but I don't see it all turning out so perfectly and pretty that some seem to fantasize it all ending.

[Apollyonus]

14. No

Not without "criminal intent"

He can say he just did what he felt was right for the country under the absolute power granted to him.

[beachbum bob]

19. Why?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

21. Ford pardoned Nixon.

And he faced no consequences, other than that may well be the reason he didn't win in '76.