Why asking for 5 years of Romney's tax returns was brilliant

[cali]

It was a classic.

It keeps the pot boiling; making headlines and calling for a response which in turn keeps the matter in the headlines.

It puts Romney once again on the spot.

They knew, and so did anyone following the story, that Romney would refuse, which makes him look even more like he had something to hide.

The Obama campaign knows what it's doing. It really is quite skilled at this stuff. If the President is unseated it won't be because he ran a lousy campaign. To date, he's running an excellent one.

[cyberswede]

1. I agree

Keeping the topic in the news is a great idea.

They need to ask again in a month.

[Salviati]

32. On October 15 the extention on his 2011 taxes is up.

So his escuse for not releasing them turns back into a pumpkin. He either has to release those or go back on his promise to. Either way it's back in the news again.

[DallasNE]

96. It Will Be An Interesting Release, Too

Because when he extended he said he expects a $200,000 tax refund. That suggests major changes from the estimate he released earlier for 2011. And there are still missing forms from his 2010 tax returns, particularly involving his Swiss bank account. The missing forms could clarify whether he took the tax amnesty offered for those that previously failed to report certain offshore income.

[RagAss]

2. I was just thinking the other day...

What if the Obama campaign sunk most, if not all of its ad money into this one story for at least 3 weeks. Ad after ad after ad just asking for the returns. Mitt could do nothing but issue denial after denial and look like a two bid crook right through the convention.

[cali]

6. lol. it's an amusing thought, but I fear it would be counterproductive

They need to keep the heat up on all kinds of issues.

[heaven05]

65. so you say

mittflips taxes are the point along race baiting that has created a racial climate in america that is volatile. so you fear it would be counterproductive to hammer away at one of mittflips major weaknesses? OH that's right, sacrosanct right.

[cali]

75. say what? word salad, dear.

and do read the op. and if you don't stop making false accusations, hon, you'll have MORE posts deleted.

[heaven05]

80. what accusation

that's all you guys can do hon is get people who talk back to the so-called grownups banned and you know what, people like you are not important to me. mittflip, aynryan and rove are who I am concentrating my efforts on. I'm making calls everyday, making sure people are registered. what are you doing dear other than getting people with a right to speak deleted. I find this site, somewhat hypocritical in regard to some of the so-called progressives and liberals. touting their line of reasoning, deleting others. Yeah, you people have been trying to shut me up for decades, but I got my right to vote anyway and about deletions, I'm so scared and/or worried about being banned. nada!!!!!!!!! also sacrosanct is in the dictionary, it not accusatory, just a FACTUAL word.

[magical thyme]

71. no. it would wear thin fast. better to allow the natural migration from one issue after the next

and slam Romney on each one. It's a game of whack-a-mole, and Romney literally has no where to hide.

Biz experience? Bain.
Taxes? 0
Foreign Policy? Europe disaster.
Budget? Ryan disaster.
Biz experience? Bain.
Taxes? 0
Foreign Policy? European disaster.
Budget? Ryan disaster.

Round and round and round. No matter what distraction Romney tries, his hands are filthy and he ends up covered in mud.

[brush]

76. Full out ad blitz?

It could work but I'd rather them figure out a way to keep bringing it back up every two or three weeks. That would get it back into the news cycle and throw the Rmoney campaign off from propagating their other lies.

[gollygee]

3. Every time he says "no" to this, he looks worse

This just gives him a chance to dig his hole deeper.

[sammytko]

4. Are the returns he did release, posted anywhere on-line?

I'd love to go through them.

[cali]

8. He's only released an incomplete one for one year.

[mrJJ]

13. check here

http://www.taxanalysts.com/www/website.nsf/Web/PresidentialTaxReturns?OpenDocument

[sammytko]

16. thank you

[mgarr]

5. tax returns

Release the tax returns, Mr. Romney. Before November 6.

[BeHereNow]

21. Not going to happen- which is why the President's move is BRILLIANT.

He, no doubt, KNOWS what those returns would show the American
people about Mitt's offshore activities- how he has not returned a dime
to the American tax base.

Mitt is the little child caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

"Show me your hands Mitty."

"NO."

"Show me your hands."

"NO!"

Why? Because Mitt's hands are covered in cookie crumbs
and our President knows this.


BHN

[docgee]

49. Ok Mitty, show me one hand. NO! haha

[BeHereNow]

54. EXACTLY!!!!!

"Show me ONE hand!"

"NO!!!!!!!!"

And that isn't shit smeared around Mitt's lying mouth-
it is TOLL House cookie chocolate.


BHN

Keep the HITS coming Mr. Prez

[Johonny]

7. Romney's main theme is Obama is going negative- here Obama looks reasonable

and amiable to trying to help Romney out, Romney looks yet again small minded and unreasonable. Of course and it keeps the story alive for yet another weekend news cycle and round of Sunday morning talk shows.

[coalition_unwilling]

9. Emphatic K&R. Romney bought himself a few days' respite

with the Ryan announcement. But now the bell is sounding for the next round.

Jab! Jab! (Setting up the knock-out blow when Reid brings his source forward and it's lights out for Team Romney.)

[Lex]

10. I figure the Obama campaign knows what's in the taxes anyway and is just dragging out

the controversy for maximum effect.

[toddwv]

84. That's my guess.

5 years is too specific. Just on the information we have, I would've pushed for taxes back to 2000 when Romney had "left" Bain.

So the Obama Campaign knows something that we don't know.

[beac]

90. 2009 Swiss Bank Account Amnesty.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/oct/13/business/fi-swiss13



BTW, I had to go to the THIRD page of The Google to retrieve this link b/c the first two are now full of "Did Romney take the 2009 2009 Swiss Bank Account Amnesty?" articles.

Drip, drip, drip....

[truebluegreen]

94. Or maybe

voter fraud in Massachusetts. Registering using his son's (unfinished) basement as his home address, and voting in the special election for Ted Kennedy's seat (can't you just see him trying to get his revenge on a man who kicked his Mormon-underweared a@@?). What if his tax returns for 08 or 09 claimed residence in California?

Especially when the Rethugs are beating the drum on voter fraud to justify their new Jim Crow laws. Rock and a hard place. And the years the Obama campaign has requested would cover that period, wouldn't they?

[hifiguy]

11. It was a classic LBJ-style trope.

When LBJ was once running for congress he once told an aide to spread rumors that his opponent practiced bestiality with farm animals. The aide said 'Lyndon, you can't say that! You know it isn't true." To which Johnson replied "Ah know it ain't true. I just want to make the SOB deny that he's a pig-fucker."

What the Obama campaign has done is perfectly analogous.

[Melissa G]

23. No, it is not analagous

I don't think the President or Harry Reid think it's not true.

[hifiguy]

27. The half-loaf offer is what's analogous.

Obama offered a sensible compromise that would have let Mittwit "save face." Mittwit refused. So he has to keep denying that he is a tax cheat while refusing to offer any evidence to the contrary. Obama backed Mittwit into a corner and then opened the trapdoor underneath him. A brilliant tactical maneuver.

[Melissa G]

30. I agree that it's brilliant,

but Obama is playing whole level higher game than LBJ if it is both true and brilliant.

[cali]

31. Read Caro's biography

Whatever one thinks of him, there's no doubt that he was brilliant politically- particularly in the Senate. I don't think it's accurate to state that Obama is playing at higher level.

[hifiguy]

34. Agreed. I re-read Caro's first three LBJ

books last fall. LBJ was playing three-dimensional chess for years before the POTUS was born and backing it up with an iron fist when he needed to.

[emulatorloo]

24. Nope. Romney is a tax cheat or worse.

My ass-umption is that somebody in the McCain 08 has spilled the beans to the Dems about what Romney is hiding.

[uponit7771]

33. +1, what confirms this is McRages "..we picked Palin..." bit. They KNOW somethings wrong with

...rMoney

[hifiguy]

37. I don't think so.

The fireworks are in the returns for '08 and '09, which Grampy's people never would have seen as they hadn't been filed yet.

[1StrongBlackMan]

87. Besides ...

tax avoidance/evasion to the point of paying zero, is not something that cuts against the gop grain, so long as the scheme is arguably legal.

It just cuts against the grain of those that believe in the concept of equity and/or fairness.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

41. I'm guessing the smoking gun is in the returns for '08 and '09,

which McCain's people didn't see. I think the reason McCain picked Palin over Romney wasn't because of the tax returns but because Romney is a boring stiff and McCain wanted somebody who'd liven up his campaign (which she did, but not, as it turned out, in a good way).

The returns the McCain campaign saw certainly showed evidence of the usual rich-guy tax dodges, which would certainly add to Mittens' rich-guy-with-car-elevator-and-dressage-horse image that he's trying to downplay with his walks in cornfields and tattersall shirts with the sleeves rolled up. But he really, really doesn't want us to see '08 and '09. Something in there really stinks.

[hifiguy]

43. Bull's eye! nt

[Warren Stupidity]

61. Amnesty for offshore tax shelters.

That is a good guess as to what Mitt is hiding and why he has to continue to hide it.

[cbdo2007]

66. President Obama will wait until one of the debates and ask point blank just for 2009

It will be an incredible moment....if Mitt even makes it that far.

[Gothmog]

69. 2009 Return is where the amnesty disclosure would be

If Romney took advantage of the amnesty program for foreign or swiss accounts, then that disclosure would be in the 2009 return.

[Marie Marie]

95. And even that is a big IF.

If this crook had enough lawyers finding a way out of paying up, I don't even see him using the amnesty option.

[denverbill]

36. I don't think it relates to McCain. I think it was the Swiss bank account deal.

I bet you a TON of Washingtonians got the names of people who were on the list of tax cheats. They can't say anything about it because of confidentiality, but they know and he knows they know.

[caveat_imperator]

52. I hope Wikileaks or a similar group gets a hold of that tax cheat list

and reveals it before the election. Even the teabaggers would consider voting Democratic when they see the names.

[bluemarkers]

40. tithe cheat

I don't think rmoney gives a care about what we think (just listen to ann) but he does care what his church thinks.

Years ago met new friends that were Mormon and I didn't know a thing except for the choir, so I did a bit of research on the lds church. Wow whee! My friends told me point blank they have to show their tax returns to their bishop or whatever so he can determine what they need to tithe. She actually had to go get a job so they could give more, even though they had small children and she had/has a chronic illness. I think he has cheated his church...

(But the scariest part is their bishops are supposed to also be seers - and can do no wrong but that has nothing to do with taxes, it's just scary.)

[hifiguy]

45. Every bit as much a phony-baloney cult

as Scientology.

[stopbush]

59. That's not saying much as all religion is phony baloney stuff.

[hifiguy]

60. Yeah, true, but I am not in the mood for

a flame war right now.

[bluemarkers]

78. me either

I hope I didn't start anything - that wasn't my intention.

[woodsprite]

63. And Romney held the position of Bishop in the LDS Church

Great article here:

http://thenevadaview.com/3723/is-mitt-romney-shortchanging-the-mormon-church-on-tithing/

another one here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/29/mitt-romney-mormon-bishop_n_1386592.html

[tonybgood]

58. Worse!!! He committed voter fraud!!!

Can you imagine what would have happened if Mass. had a voter ID law when Mitt went to vote for Scott Brown!!! That's why he can't release his tax returns. Not only did he pay an indefensibly ridiculous low rate, his ADDRESS is on the tax return!!! Is it the address of his son's home in Mass? Bet it's not!!! It's hysterical that the GOP are trying to suppress the vote by claiming voter fraud when their nominee for president committed VOTER FRAUD!!!

[VWolf]

70. That may very well be true, but

because Obama has narrowed it down to 2004-2009, it doesn't seem he's going this route.

He must know there's enough in the last 5 years to sink Rmoney, and it's probably just as bad as voter fraud in the eyes of the voting populace.

[tonybgood]

74. When was Scott Brown elected?

Since the election for the Kennedy Senate seat was held in 2009 and Brown took office in Jan. of 2010 that would fall into the 5 year period.

[VWolf]

77. Mixed up the Bain/Olympic scandal (2002) with the Voter Fraud scandal (2009)

Sorry about that. Hard to keep up with all of them.

ETA - And I can't type either

[1StrongBlackMan]

88. I thought I had on the RMS ...

That romney did, in fact, file taxes in Massachuetts ... retro-actively!

I caught that while passing by the TV machine, so I'm not certain about what was said. Can anyone confirm what I thought I heard?

[Skittles]

73. yes

someone who was appalled at the gall of that rich bastard

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. With one proviso: Romney really is a pig-fucker, so to speak

He clearly participated in the 2009 Voluntary Disclosure program on UBS, meaning that he was an incorrigible tax cheat even while running the Commonwealth of Massachusetts!

[hifiguy]

89. Yep.

The only evidence he can produce will substantiate his metaphorical intimate relations with domestic swine. He is cooked on this point.

[riverwalker]

12. average mortage requires 5 years of returns

people can relate to this.

[Mopar151]

53. Exactly!

If Willard won't disclose what the Everyman family had to dig up for the Building & Loan, it really puts a point on things.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

67. Excellent point! (nt)

[Pryderi]

14. It's less than HALF of what Obama has released. I guess Willard is less than half the man that

President Obama is.

[Atman]

15. Plus, kills their "They'll just keep asking for more" argument

It is a totally ridiculous argument, but it's their fallback more than any other reason "No matter what we release, they'll just want more!" Now Obama has given them a real number, no open-ended "more more more." Just five years.

Of course they'll still say no. But NOW what is the reason to say no?

[riderinthestorm]

18. Yup, 5 years is the perfect amount. It was a great move nt

[Ruby the Liberal]

19. Ah HA! Great point.

I didn't think about that one. Sweet!

[Ruby the Liberal]

17. It also ties him to Congress' 10% approval rating on unwillingness to compromise.

[DCKit]

20. All three major networks news programs led with his taxes last night.

It was a very short honeymoon.

Then, this morning, our local (DC) Fox station did an interview with a guy who explained (very clearly) the difference between Ryan's plan for Medicare and what President Obama has already accomplished. He specifically state that Ryan's plan would shift >$700 billion into the pockets of insurance companies, and remove that money from the ACA single payer system which, under the ACA, shifts that money from Medicare Part D (supplemental insurance) back into Medicare - more savings for those on Medicare, less money for insurance companies, doctors, hospitals and drug companies.

We live in interesting times, indeed.

[Ruby the Liberal]

22. Is there a link to this interview?

[DCKit]

25. Here, but I can't figure out how to embed it:

The video is currently in the middle of the bottom row.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/category/234323/fox-5-morning-news

[Ruby the Liberal]

38. USA Today analysis.

Nice, non-partisan explanation.

Great job explaining how the providers eat the cuts AND that they agreed to it.

Also the first time I heard the term "Premium Support" for Ryan's "vouchers". Good to know that frame.

Thanks kindly!

[TalkingDog]

46. No way to embed on DU, but here's the direct link to the video

http://www.myfoxdc.com/video?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=7623954

[DCKit]

47. Thanks very much!

If you think it's worthwhile, go ahead and post it as an OP (since you did the real work).

[TalkingDog]

81. Nah... just happy to forward the cause.

If you would change your post to include the link and tip your hat my way, that would be more than enough.

[heaven05]

26. YEAH

if the President is unseated it will be because voter apathy will allow rethug-mittflip and teabagger-racist aynryan(rove) to steal the election, again.

[cali]

28. how about voter disenfranchisement in PA and other states?

How about the SCOTUS opinion in Citizen's United?

How about republican shenanigans and Diebold?

[heaven05]

56. all

all part and parcel of what my point is concerning voter apathy coupled with those shenanigans of hanging chads, 600000 paper ballots found on the side of the road in florida under harris's watch. no problem with any thing mentioned. so, ????

[CanonRay]

35. This whole debate is opening people's eyes

about how the truly wealthy operate in this country. It is revealing the fact that there are two sets of rules, one for us, and another set for the rich. A lot of people didn't know this, or chose not to believe it was true. Romney is showing them it is true.

[Canuckistanian]

39. I think the Obama campaign has a pretty good idea what's in all 10 of those returns

The business world and Washington societies are notoriously gossipy. And Rmoney hasn't made too many friends along the way with his greedy, grasping holier-than-thou attitude.

And furthermore, I think Obama KNOWS that the most damning returns are from 2004-2009.

Just a guess.

[Dustlawyer]

42. This is more like 3 level tic tac toe!

[Whisp]

44. and it reinforces that repugs will not budge at all, and the President is willing to compromise

*compromise is Not a bad thing - just a note for the ones here that have never compromised anything in their lives. ha.

[HopeHoops]

48. Agreed. It sets a bar. The most damning stuff is in the last five years. It has to be.

If it was earlier, they could dismiss it as "under the rules at the time". The rules haven't changed recently so going back five years is fair game. If he did anything nefarious, it was in the 2009 returns and those are essential regardless of how many years he releases. He's fucked on the issue.

[Pryderi]

50. I want to see Queen Ann Romney do her Marie Antoinette impersonation again. n/t

[Cha]

91. Queen Anngry? eom

[1StrongBlackMan]

51. A thought came to me this morning ...

This line of attack (romney's tax returns) is not merely a campaign thing ... I think it's a part of a larger strategy ... to change the tax laws!

Think about it:

The President Obama campaign called him out over his taxes ... He refused to show them, but STATED that he paid would he LAWFULLY owed (and nothing more) ...

They called him out again, saying he didn't pay any taxes for 10 years ... He refused to show them and STATED he paid 13%, a rate far below what ~99% of the American public pays ...

They will keep calling him out and he has to continue to refusing to show his tax filings, but he will continue with the 13% claim.

Now romney (and the current taxation scheme is trapped) ...

The campaign has romney hiding the truth (whatever that might be) and repeatedly stating the 13% rate, so the campaign wins twice ... once on the "what's he hiding/character in question" issue, but also on the larger inequity issue that President Obama has raised since day one.

But, on the larger front, repeatedly raising the tax issue has romney trumpeting, even to the most partisan of contra-interest supporting working class goper, that the system - the tax laws - are rigged against them.

This will make it easier to introduce tax fairness legislation.

[Ruby the Liberal]

55. Agree totally.

People pretty much said "meh" the last round when the nooze was talking about exemptions for private jets - because they couldn't relate.

Willard's NLLB (No Loophole Left Behind) plan just puts a focus and a lot of sunlight on how egregious these loopholes really are when they add up.

[hifiguy]

83. That is a truly first rate analysis

in terms of the short and long -erm political effects. Bravo!

[1StrongBlackMan]

98. I had to kick this thread ...

So I could say, "I knew it ... I just knew it!"

Gibbs on the Chris Wallace show just connected romney's tax filings to a coming, larger discussion of tax policy.

I knew it ...

[Coyotl]

57. After the Republican convention, ask for four years

Only one problem I can see ahead, all the secret money. Does Karl Rove have all the cash that went missing in Iraq?

[BumRushDaShow]

64. Exactly.

Keep trying to negotiate down to that one fateful year.

I remember when some spreadsheet was released with names of folks - it may have been those who didn't bother to do the amnesty and it was essentially done for public shaming.

[bayareaboy]

62. Well one thing is certain ...

That a lot of DU readers have had a lot to say with all sorts of plots and innuendos about Mitt-Man. I try and keep it simple and figure that Mitt is hiding every thing possible in his tax returns. Hell he might even have Jimmy Hoffa buried in one.

[TeamPooka]

68. when they say no to 5 and the story dies down you ask for one more year

and watch them squirm as they say no.

[Skittles]

72. makes him say stuff like he PAID 13%!!!!!!!!!!

which makes us all calculate how much extra money we'd have if WE paid 13%, while we get angrier because we all know he is lying about paying 13%!!!

[Iwillnevergiveup]

79. Right, and he thinks he'll get away with

claiming he paid 13% 'cause he ain't releasing the tax forms anyway. He can SAY anything he wants, but can back up NOTHING.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

82. "What specific problem in the returns are you afraid the media will pick on if they see them?"

Mittsy and Ann have both brought up that fear. I wish the media would at least ask about the nature of the problem in the returns the Romneys have alluded to.

"If you won't release the returns at least you owe us an explanation as to specifically why the returns are problematic for you".

[Lex]

85. "Mr. Romney, please, we are giving you a chance to explain and fully defend what's in those taxes."

[sad sally]

86. You're right - it even gives RMoney an out on having to explain any Bain cash in the early 2000,

but 5 years probably has some gems related to offshore money and hating to pay into the unfair American tax system.

[TheKentuckian]

92. I'd prefer tying his father around his neck

(The scene opens on a hard scrabble blue collar man from Michigan clad in denim and wearing a baseball cap maybe with a Ford symbol on it).

He begins to speak in an Eastwood like gravel and after an eye full the scene turns to black and white photos of George Romney as Governor and during his Presidential bid.

"George Romney was an honorable man who understood that no greater faith can be placed on an American than to elect them President of our great nation and more that trust is earned by demonstrating integrity and opening up obvious information to the people. Has Mitt fallen so far from his father's tree that he doesn't understand or plain old doesn't care about earning the faith of the American people?"

"George Romney provided twelve years of tax records, I guess like father, like son isn't as true as it was a few years back".

Or something to that effect.

[Peaceful Protester]

93. What is Mitt hiding?

The book Romney's Way is, regardless of your politics, an interesting case study in how far more conservative the Republican party is since the days of Rockefeller and George Romney. You have a clear basis of comparison with the father and son, both running for the same nomination in the same party, but with radically different platforms.

George Romney organized Citizens for Michigan, a nonpartisan group built on his belief that assorted interest groups including big business, held too much influence in government, and that only the cooperation of informed citizens acting for the benefit of all could counter them.

At AMC, George Romney instituted company-wide savings and efficiency measures, and he and other executives reduced their salaries by up to 35 percent. The stock rose from $7 to $90 per share, making him a millionaire from stock options. However, whenever he felt his salary and bonus was excessively high for a year, he gave the excess back to the company.

George Romney headed a citizen-based committee for improved educational programs in Detroit’s public schools. This Citizens Advisory Committee on School Needs made nearly 200 recommendations for economy and efficiency, better teacher pay, and new infrastructure funding. He helped a $90 million education-related bond issue and tax increase win an upset victory in an statewide referendum.

[geckosfeet]

97. It is a national shame and tregedy that the request even has to be made

rMoney is a crook