One of the things that distinguishes Dems from Republicans: we don't dance on people's graves

[EffieBlack]

Or so I thought.

Do better, people.

[BumRushDaShow]

1. Grave-dancing is a DU sport.

Now you know that...

[Kahuna7]

26. Yesss! Remember how we danced when jerry falwell died?

Boy did we celebrate!

[nycbos]

77. 999 times of 1,000 grave dancing is wrong.

Jerry Falwell is one of those times when it's okay.

[Atticus]

2. Agreed. Grit your teeth if you feel it is necessary, but stay classy. nt

[Just a Weirdo]

3. Not dancing in his grave

I actually respect GHWB.

[USALiberal]

4. Really? What do you think will happen when Trump dies? nt

[Buns_of_Fire]

13. i think that'll fit somewhere between the macarena and a conga line.

With the 21-gun salute replaced with the Three Amigos salute.

[peekaloo]

59. a Simpsons' conga line...."You can't make friends with salad".

You made me laugh. Thank you!

[Kahuna7]

28. There will be dancing in the streets!

[samnsara]

5. i will on trumps!

[TheCowsCameHome]

6. I'm saving my energy for Trump's.

[dembotoz]

7. oh i dunno, might have cut a rug a bit on ronnies

and i am sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ashamed...lol

[irisblue]

8. Effie....Dick Cheney. I'm saying it now.

An evil, world damaging mofo.

[klook]

60. I would like to see Cheney vilified, humiliated, and ruined in his lifetime.

Dead? Who cares? The damage he inflicted is done, though the repercussions live on.

[dflprincess]

66. That's just it, the damage they do lives on

And if a person was a horrible human being in life they don't become a saint when they die. Being honest about the departed is not gravedancing. Gloating about a death is tacky but remembering facts is not.

[samplegirl]

79. I would dance

If it were Cheney!

[Music Man]

9. Thank you!

I've been embarrassed by the trashy, ungracious things posted here. I have never and will never vote for a Republican in my life and am well aware of the flaws in GHWB's worldview and political history, but when my wife mentioned the news to me last night that he'd died, without thinking I said, "Aww, that's too bad." I can't even imagine saying to her, "I'm not going to shed any tears. The guy's a traitor. And so many of the Greatest Generation is racist. Fuck him!!!"

How hard is it to show a *little* basic humanity? We really have lost our decency in the cable news/internet/Gingrich/Trump era.

When Jimmy Carter dies, I dread the onslaught of shameless Republicans who will post, "The guy was a terrible, weak president! Bad economy, not proud of America, awful liberal. I'm not sad at all. I'll be skipping the media coverage."

I suspect many here would say, "Wow, what a shitty thing to say about a guy who's just died." To avoid being labelled hypocrites, I'm sure such people would insist that, "But *we're* right when we denigrate George Bush on the day of his death." No, you're just partisan, and your personality may not be as different from a Trump voter's as you might think.

Do better, indeed.

[Hortensis]

47. I think it's a sign of the times. Anxiety and uncertainty

make whole societies more fractious and conservative.

We'll all become calmer and more decent some time in future when assurance of wellbeing replaces anxiety.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

52. Thank YOU!

I couldn't have said it better. GOPers will slag Jimmy Carter and we'll be outraged, but it's OK when we slag their guys? Blind, hateful partisanship is one of the things that's ruining this country and the least we can do is set it aside for a few days when somebody dies.*

*I will probably break my own rule when Trump goes, but he's sui generis. Even the GOPers will have trouble coming up with a convincing eulogy for that guy.

[secondwind]

58. Hear, hear.. we can do better, folks!

[FoxNewsSucks]

107. There's a difference

Those things aren't true about Carter. The record and actions of the Bush Crime Family speaks for itself.

Pointing out the lasting damage he has done to the country is not "grave dancing". It is not disparaging. It's fact. No Bush has earned the kind of fawning praise being given. W's daughters, Jenna and the other one, and maybe Laura the stepford wife are the only members of that family who have ever acted in a compassionate way. The political members are all thieving scum. From the Nazi's friend Prescott on down.

If the right gets their way, we will be forced to genuflect and adore Dear Leader tRump when he finally does the world a favor. Until that day comes, I will save my praise for people who made the world better during their lives, not members of a family who made it FAR WORSE!

[rzemanfl]

10. No, we don't and I am saving my urine for Drumph's and W's. n/t

[Sanity Claws]

11. I reserve the right to dance on the following graves:

T-rump
Bush 43
Cheney


I may add to the list upon further thought.

[Va Lefty]

19. I would add Tom Delay, Newt Gingrich and Mitch McConnell to that list

[Sanity Claws]

21. Thank you for the suggestions

You saved me from having to think further about this.

[Kahuna7]

29. Mitch McConnell?

He gets a dance from me.

[Martin Eden]

31. I will be very sad when they pass ...

... unless they die in prison. Otherwise, they will have lived long lives of wealth and privilege after getting away with their crimes.

[Kahuna7]

34. One more for me. Pat Robertson. nt

[brush]

114. All on my list as well.

[treestar]

120. Rumsfeld too

And Putin.

[McCamy Taylor]

12. Is someone dancing on Bush's grave? He arranged hostages for votes and therefore will spend

a few eternities in hell (if you believe in hell) but otherwise he was not all that bad for a Republican.

[edhopper]

14. Depends

you won't do a jig when Trump shuffles off? I'll be tapping my troes.

I won't be kind to W either.

I am giving Bush Sr. a pass today.

[edhopper]

17. G W Bush

was a horrible President who did horrible things.

He just wasn't the sociopath Trump is.

[edhopper]

20. That bar is so low

it is buried.
Bush was one of the worst Presidents in History, his Legacy, ignoring warnings for 9/11, Iraq, torture, Katrina, The Crash of 2008...
His Adminstration was corrupt and evil and more of them should be in jail.

[edhopper]

24. Weak sauce

Were you in America during his Presidency?
He invaded a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 for personal reasons, killing hundreds of thousands and leading to the mess we have there now. He pulled troops out of Afghanistan for Iraq, destabilizing it. He approved torture, I'll say that again, he approved TORTURE! He sat back as a city drowned. He was an environmental disaster. He was just as anti-science as Trump. His inept and corrupt handling of the economy lead to the biggest crash since the Great Depression. And that doesn't even get into the criminals in his Administration, starting with Chaney.
Not as bad as Trump doesn't make someone good, just makes them not the worst.

Welcome to DU, I am sure you are a good progressive, but don't give me the Bush wasn't so bad bullshit.

[Downtown Hound]

42. How old are you?

Because I entered adulthood during the Bush years, and remember them very well, and I can tell you the man was an absolutely awful president. In a lot of ways he was even worse than Trump. Trump is so stupid and full of narcissism that he is his own worst enemy. Bush knew how to fake being a decent human being more than Trump does. And ultimately, that made him more dangerous than Trump, but also more stable, which is why people are now starting to miss him. Dubya was pure evil but he was at least mentally stable. But his policies were nothing short of atrocious. He was an arrogant, callous cretin of a human being who needlessly caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands and the suffering of millions more.

Next time you want to praise that piece of shit, just go and look at this photo. This is a young Iraqi girl covered in her parent's blood after they were killed by U.S. soldiers. That was a war based completely on lies that Bush told. It was unnecessary, it was fraud, and it was plain, simple, barbaric butchery done in the name of stealing somebody else's resources. And bear in mind that this girl is just one of millions of his victims. And don't forget that he oversaw the worst economic collapse in nearly a century.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-18/samar-hassan-screams-after-parents-killed-iraq/4580094

[SammyWinstonJack]

46. Not all that bad? He was horrible. Fist bump on Shock and Awe. Yeah, evil and horrible

NOT to mention his actions wrt Hurricane Katrina. The list goes on.

[cwydro]

54. I'll agree with you on this.

DU often only sees black and white, no shades of grey.

Some here are so perfect that they feel entitled to judge others’ flawed lives.

[Downtown Hound]

56. Bullshit. Never said I was perfect

But I will say that I do not have the blood of hundreds of thousands of innocents on my hands, so you're damn right I feel I have the right to judge George W. Bush and his extremely flawed life.

[cwydro]

62. Sorry, not aware I had responded to you.

[Downtown Hound]

65. Your post was about me and everybody who was criticizing W

So actually, yes, you were.

[cwydro]

82. You seem sensitive. My post was for the poster to whom I responded.

Defensiveness is not becoming.

[Downtown Hound]

83. "Some here are so perfect that they feel entitled to judge others' flawed lives."

You may have addressed the other poster but you were referring to me and the others who were criticizing W.

Deflection and evasion are not becoming.

[LanternWaste]

93. Nor is biased inference.

"Deflection and evasion are not becoming..."

(deconstruct the sentence, and at least three other possibilities other than your own conclusion are possible)

[Downtown Hound]

94. Deconstructed it and...

came to the same conclusion. Thanks.

[edhopper]

105. Since she was responding to me

I will answer. G W Bush was an awful President, and a terrible person. His Administration did far worse than Trump has...so far.

Please don't try to rehabilitate his image here. His "gosh gee" appeal to the stupid lead our way to Trump.

[Downtown Hound]

55. Hey, there are people who think Hitler had good qualities too

So let's just forget about him being a mass murderer and just say there's good things and bad things about him, in the name of objectivity.

[Polybius]

101. W killed more people than all of the other Presidents combined in my lifetime

He's my worst, for now.

[cwydro]

39. Really? Interestingly, your profile says you've been a member just over a month.

“Every time.”?

[EllieBC]

23. People used to be better in general.

We aren’t the class acts that the Obamas and Clintons are.

Which is why we are all keyboard warriors and they are actually getting things done.

[ripcord]

36. Yep

[img][/img]

[Hortensis]

53. :) Speak for yourself. I could be just as classy

if I needed to.

Which they do. In fact, those people have assumed this duty to society for life.

[CrispyQ]

25. Wait till Rush dies.

I will rock around the clock all night! With champagne.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

27. Sadly, some of us do.

I wish they would stop.

[stopbush]

30. One thing that distinguishes Ds from Rs: we don't check our critical faculties

at the door when it comes to evaluating history.

[Coventina]

32. Thank you. Dying is something everyone does. Big deal.

Someone as dirty as Poppy doesn't earn respect by doing that.

[cwydro]

40. He was a war hero.

Awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross, among other achievements.

No doubt your life is much more admirable.

[Coventina]

41. Willie Horton, Clarence Thomas, death squads in Central America, Iran-Contra

Sorry, but yes, my life is much more admirable.

[m-lekktor]

99. War hero's are exempt from criticism no matter how awful a person they were.

Didn't you get the memo? As a navy vet that shit irks me to no end.

[Coventina]

102. Right? Millions of American men served in WW2.

I thank them all for their service, but I'm sure not all 16 million of them were of exemplary character. That just cheapens it for the men who actually WERE.

[Docreed2003]

33. K&R

Thank you Effie. We can retain our beliefs without losing our basic humanity.

[octoberlib]

35. I'll be dancing on Trump's grave

like I would any other abominable authoritarian leader but those are the only ones. Actually, I did quite a bit of dancing on Margaret Thatcher’s.

[cwydro]

37. We have a whole group of grave dancers here.

One of the things I’ve always despised here.

Thank goodness, most DUers don’t participate.

K and r.

[GoCubsGo]

38. I won't dance on his grave, but I do have a long memory.

And, I don't remember GHW Bush as anything other than a crook who spawned a family of criminals. I will never forget how he and his sons lied, cheated, stole, and ruined millions of lives by their actions, especially since I was one of the people whose life his filthy, dirty son, Junior, ruined while his daddy sat by and watched. And, I sure as hell won't forget about all of the tens of thousands of people who died and were maimed by their illegal wars. The revisionist history I'm reading here is sickening.

[SammyWinstonJack]

48. Not suppose to say anything about any of that because he's dead. What a crock.

Could have said it two weeks ago and probably would have been fine.

[GoCubsGo]

64. Except that nobody is saying we're not supposed to do that.

Grave-dancing is celebrating a person's death. Pointing out that the deceased was an awful person is not a celebration of his death.

[thegoose]

67. Me too

Jobs disappeared big time when Shrub and Darth Cheney were raping the country.

[Archae]

44. Clarence Darrow said it best...

"I have never wished death on anyone, but I have read some obituaries with great satisfaction."

Bush elder deserves the scorn for his Iran-Contra pardons, alone.

[Hortensis]

45. Agree. Even criticism that won't wait can go high.

Relatively speaking, of course. We're on DU, not National Cathedral, manners.

[bitterross]

50. So, we're supposed to be hypocrites for a day or two?

What, exactly, has made Bush any better today than he was yesterday - except the fact he's dead?

He was a terrible person who spawned terrible people like Jeb and W. Why, exactly, am I and everyone else supposed to turn around 180 degrees from how we feel about him just because he had the decency to die.

It's a stupid ritual.

ON EDIT: And do not tell me out of respect for him and his family. I have no respect for him and his family. They have not earned it.

[KentuckyWoman]

51. You are wrong.

1. DU dances on graves all the time.

2. Stating a horrible human being was a horrible human being is not the same as singing ding dong the witch is dead and cracking open a bottle while sitting on the coffin.

3. He was a horrible human being and a lot of us are neither glad, nor sorry, that he's gone. It doesn't matter, his legacy lives on.

[secondwind]

57. I agree.. Amen.. there's a lot to like about Poppy Bush..he even voted for Hillary

[thegoose]

61. Not dancing...just don't care

But I lived through the Reagan/Bush years. They sucked. The media reinventing Poppy as a saint is specious.

[peggysue2]

63. I wish that were true

I vividly recall the Republican response when Teddy Kennedy died. It was petty and ugly and totally unbecoming.

Sadly, I've read the same sort of comments on DU recently, a repeat of the Barbara Bush trashing. I found it disgusting then. I still do.

We needn't forget our differences with the Bush years. But stomping on the dead is not a good look.

[Adrahil]

68. I will pop the fuckin' champagne with Hair Fuhrer dies.

Although Bush 41 did many unadmirable things, I will not celebrate his death, but neither will I mourn it.

[Downtown Hound]

69. George H.W. Bush does not occupy enough space in my head to dance on his grave

But I'm not going to sing his praises or thank him for his service or any of that other feel good bullshit either. The world is a worse place because of him and the legacy he left. So I don't care about his service. I'm tired of everybody honoring service for the sake of service. Who cares about service when it hurts more than it helps?

I'm not dancing on his grave. I just don't care that he's gone. And I have ZERO desire to remember the so-called good things he did because in my opinion, it's an insult to those who suffered because of the bad things.

[ADX]

70. People who dance on other people's graves merely because they differed with them politically...

...will have their graves danced on one day, too.

I disagreed with George H.W. Bush's policies but that doesn't mean he was a horrible, irredeemable human being. Barack, Michelle, Bill and Hillary aren't gleeful over his demise so why should I be?

Dance away...

[Downtown Hound]

71. If my enemies (Nazis, fascists, racists, religious bigots, and regressive, corporatist

Republicans) dance on my grave, then I'll take that as a sign that I did something worthwhile with my life and gave those bastards as much hell as I could. That would be a life worth living.

I would view that as a victory, not a defeat.

[ADX]

73. I would think that Nazis, fascists, religious bigots, and regressive corporatists...

...are infinitely worse than people who you merely disagree with politically, don't you?

[Downtown Hound]

75. George H.W. Bush fits at least two of those categories (religious bigot and regressive corporatist),

flirts with and enables one (fascism, see his son and the propaganda used to sell the first Gulf War), and has familial ties with the fourth (Nazis, see Prescott Bush). So I guess you could say he goes a little beyond mere disagreement.

[ADX]

76. Then by all means...

...dance your ass off, I'm not going to stop you. Knock yourself out...

[Downtown Hound]

78. Not dancing, just don't care

And not going to feign respect and "remember the good things" either.

[ADX]

80. Duly noted...

...Have a great day.

[Devil Child]

72. Do better? No thank you

I don't shed tears for the expiration of death squad enablers and criminals like Bush. I'm going to dance this grave till my creaky knees ache.

If you want to offer thoughts and prayers knock yourself out, I wont try and shame you for doing so.

[WeekiWater]

74. I think it is sometimes a really fine line.

No one knows how to bastardize history like that of the media, elected officials, and the citizenry after the death of a President. It is truly a week or two of rewriting history. Purposeful omission is as good as a lie. I call it a fine line because many grave pissers do the exact same thing, just from a different angle.

Then again, the only reason I smiled when Osama was killed was because of who got to announce it. The smile was not long lived. I simply have a difficult time smiling or pissing on death.

[guillaumeb]

81. We should not allow a racist, lying traitor to magically become anything other than what he was.

That is how history becomes rewritten.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

85. WWJD ?

[guillaumeb]

86. He would probably not suggest rewriting history.

What is your opinion?

Should we allow his crimes to be forgotten?

[obnoxiousdrunk]

88. I'm pretty sure

he wouldn't be grave dancing.

[guillaumeb]

90. THis is simply acknowledging the reality of what he was.

And not allowing conservatives to erase history.

Again, what was your opinion of Bush Sr?

[LanternWaste]

95. Jesus has a funny name. We should mock it.

[Downtown Hound]

89. Allow himself to be crucified by fascists

Instead of resisting.

Fine if you're the son of God and want to be a martyr and can resurrect yourself a few days later. Since most of us can't do that, its not such a great idea for us mere mortals.

[elocs]

84. "we don't dance on people's graves" Oh, if that were only true. n/t

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

87. Since when is it dancing on someone's grave to point out

what they were actually like in life? And all of the terrible things they did which hurt lots of people?

To me it's vastly worse to gloss over the damage someone did and pretend that they were wonderful and good when in reality they were terrible and evil. That's hypocrisy.

[EffieBlack]

97. Have you been writing about and complaining about and harshly criticizing him on a regular basis

basis on DU before today? If so, I've missed all of those posts.

If President Bush has been on someone's radar pretty consistently up until now and today is just another day of criticizing him, that's one thing.

But if they've barely giving him a thought, much less spent much time railing against him and have hardly mentioned him in the past few years but on the day of he died, suddenly feel the need to attack him until everyone within the sight of their posts how horrible he was, that's the very epitome of grave dancing.

if it wasn't worth your time or effort to rail against him yesterday, why do it today? History is not and never has been written based upon what anyone says about a deceased person on the day of or in the immediate aftermath of their deaths, so harshly criticizing today does nothing to "set the record straight" but only makes those who do it come across as cruel and petty.

[Coventina]

98. By that logic, no one should be talking about *ANY* aspect of his legacy. n/t

[LanternWaste]

91. I hold no newly discovered respect for the dead simply because they are dead.

On the other hand, I do like a few quick moves on the grave when it applies to particular PPRs and FFRs.

There are enough disco lights and admonitions in equal measure upon any actual death that my own response would be a string of drool in the ocean, and without measurable or noticeable consequence regardless if my reponse was positive or negative.



The dead, like science, simply do not give a damn about what we think, say or do.

[MineralMan]

92. Would that were so...

Sadly, it is not.

[backscatter712]

96. GHWB isn't quite the target like Jerry Falwell, or Margaret Thatcher, or Trump...

I'll be a gentleman for this one.

But when Trump goes, my tap-dancing shoes are gonna be on.

I remember when Maggie went, the grave-dancing was epic. And to be blunt, she earned it.

Who was it, Frankie Boyle? Yeah, him. He said that for the cost of Thatcher's state funeral, they could give a shovel to everyone in Scotland, and they'd dig a hole so deep they could hand her over to Satan personally!

[Polybius]

100. Both sides do it

I was a lurker when Scalia died, I saw the posts. When Ted Kennedy passed away, I'm sure it was a hate-fest on Freek Republic.

[EffieBlack]

104. If we behave just like they do, what's the difference between

The entire point of my OP.

[SHRED]

103. I'm not "dancng"

Link to tweet

[JohnnyLib2]

106. Thanks, EffieBlack.

Personal style comes into play, but I want to honor the veteran, the worthy opponent, the importance to his family, and maybe several chapters of history as I lived it.

[IcyPeas]

108. I don't like seeing it either.

Why not just say nothing? Why post on a message board? It saddens me to see so many posts.

Like it was mentioned above what will "they" say when Jimmy Carter dies.... or Barack Obama?

When they go low..... we go high.

[Bengus81]

110. They will TRASH talk both even with ZERO posts on here about Bush....

How would you feel if a loved one was held by Iranians for an additional THREE or more months while Reagan and Bush played their games with Iranian leaders to HOLD those hostages until five seconds after Ronnie took office??

[Bengus81]

109. Yeah ok....I'll be doing the bossa nova on Limbaugh and O'Reilly's graves

FUCK em both!!

[Kahuna7]

112. Sean Hannity and monica crowley will get an Irish jig from me. nt

[Gothmog]

111. I agree

Dancing on graves is not necessary.

I like Preet's comments

Link to tweet

[EffieBlack]

118. This

[brush]

113. Normally, but I personally will make an exception for trump.

[A HERETIC I AM]

115. "Do better"

Be best

[Lordquinton]

116. Say only good things about the dead

He's dead. Good.

[progressoid]

117. Do better? Let's "Be Best!"

[JHan]

119. I won't eulogize him, but won't dance on his grave either.

[XRubicon]

121. I agree with this. K&R