General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJohn Chau's Death on Northern Sentinel Island: Martyr or "American Dickhead"?
.
This is a very interesting article, and it appears as though his move was sanctioned by multiple Evangelical groups in the United States, all failing to comprehend the potential ramifications of this action.
Martyr or American Dickhead?
Earlier this month, a 26-year-old Christian missionary named John Allen Chau was killed on a remote Indian island in strikingly similar circumstances as the men in Ecuador. Chau dreamed of converting the members of an isolated tribe on the North Sentinel Island, who are known to aggressively resist contact from outsiders. He attempted to prepare to do so, but he didnt speak the language. At one point, he wrote to his mother, he approached a group of North Sentinelese from the water and hollered: My name is John, I love you and Jesus loves you. Chau was killed, apparently by bows and arrows, the next day on the beach.
The public reaction to Chaus death has been much different than the response to the men in Ecuador 60 years ago. Mainstream media outlets have published opinion pieces accusing Chau of cultural imperialism and insane arrogance, for example; on social media, hes been called an asshole, a failed colonizer, and an American dickhead. Many critics pointed out that Chaus expedition was a violation of Indian law, which forbids outsiders to even approach the island. It was also an epidemiological risk to the North Sentinelese, who have not built up immunity to many common illnesses including the flu. And even if the North Sentinelese were not harmed by new germs, contact with outsiders could irreparably alter their lives and culture.
In traveling to an unreached people group, Chau was acting out one of evangelical Christianitys highest imperativesand most cherished narratives. Theres a sense in evangelical and missionary circles that one of the highest things you can do is take the Gospel to a group who has never heard it, said historian Kathryn Long, the author of a forthcoming book about the 1956 mission in Ecuador. For many evangelicals, this is the most dramatic version of fulfilling Jesus Great Commission, in which he told his followers to go and make disciples of all nations.
Intriguingly, however, even Christians have not hailed Chau as a clear-cut hero of the faith. Chaus stunt not only had absolutely no chance of success, it also stood to bring sickness and death to this tribe, the conservative Christian writer Rod Dreher wrote last week. How could any Christian justify this? Dreher was among those pointing out that Chaus death has prompted a regional backlash that could make life harder for the minority population of Christians in India, not to mention Christian aid workers and long-term missionaries there.
Hop over and read this article, and see why there is even Christian backlash. It's quite interesting.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/12/john-allen-chau-missionary-death-christian-north-sentinel-island.html
.
Soxfan58
(3,479 posts)Why do they need to impose the beliefs on others?
olegramps
(8,200 posts)Squinch
(50,919 posts)He had to know that his presence, if it was tolerated, would have wiped them out. Its what happens when these tribes come into contact with the rest of us.
This was attempted mass murder.
Soxfan58
(3,479 posts)Can't have that.
Response to olegramps (Reply #23)
Post removed
mitch96
(13,871 posts)Sad that he died and that gene pool of stupid ended there...
m
shanny
(6,709 posts)I don't know if "American" is a necessary addition.
Vinca
(50,237 posts)Leave the tribe alone!
samnsara
(17,606 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)had actually instituted a limited permit system for visitors. Chau did not have one, and it seems unlikely the locals would have honored it anyway. The wisdom and morality of allowing permit access for tourists is being questioned.
PatrickforO
(14,559 posts)Sigh.
Seems like this tribe would best be left alone, but we just are incapable of that, aren't we?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)the issues, moral and practical, of leaving them completely alone, are complex, as experts who care about them agree. Most westerners believe in freedom, but freedom requires choice and opportunity. I was appalled by the notion of tourist visas also, but the source didn't say what kind of people would actually be able to get one. Note, though, there are only an estimated 50 people here, and those involved, who care about their wellbeing, know that some day life may become very grim for the last of them if they have no choices.
From some interviews about this particular event:
It takes a certain amount of courage and hard thinking, Pandya said about the next step. It has to start with gift giving, years of gift giving, then the language has to be learned through this gift giving. You have to make an effort to engage in dialogue. Its not easy, but everybody is entitled to think about their future, that is the first right, the right to have rights.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/12/01/breaking-news/american-john-chau-wanted-to-spread-christianity-to-forbidden-island-was-he-doomed-from-the-start/
dameatball
(7,395 posts)the journey by canoe.
Xipe Totec
(43,888 posts)Caliman73
(11,726 posts)Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)The dude should have checked his Bible for this Golden Oldie on sanctimony:
"... why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"
hatrack
(59,578 posts)sinkingfeeling
(51,438 posts)get the red out
(13,460 posts)The situation is infuriating. He's dead, people on the island could have contracted something that killed them.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Only 26, barely out of adolescence. The last years of adolescence are apparently the most dangerous, when a larger number who don't survive adolescence fail.
Perhaps he could have matured to be a more respectful and responsible man, if not a wise one. He apparently hasn't reproduced.
Police are reportedly looking for 2 other American evangelicals he met with who may have encouraged him to break the law. They've apparently already left India, but police have cell phone records.
RIP.
delisen
(6,042 posts)NeoGreen
(4,031 posts)2naSalit
(86,336 posts)In my DYSFUNCTIONAL family, we had the great religion wars, my entire childhood... we had xtians, jewish, catholic, JWs and now muslims. I don't buy into any of it after what I had to endure, coercion to "accept" one of them. How I saw it was that they all claim to be the chosen ones and everybody else is wrong so if I don't "accept/comply" with their demands I'll not only had a shitty life here, I get to go to hell afterward where it's worse.
The ones I had most frequent interaction with were the evangelical clan of the xtians who told me that I was a snake and evil because I wasn't pearly white and I would never be forgiven, ever, even if I "accepted" their brand of oppression. But I had to "accept/comply" because at least I could go to heaven when I died so I could be seen as like them after having lived an ugly life here because I wasn't the right shade of white. Don't get me started on the rituals part. But the xtians have this mandate to foist this bullshit onto everybody else. At several points in history they have even wiped out whole populations who would not "accept" their beliefs by either disease or murder...
This is the same freaking thing and this guy got what he deserved for being ignorant and arrogant, totally devoid of concern for anyone else but him and his "level" of holiness in his mind only. What a prick, even if he was a gullible fool. Don't care that his body won't be returned, it is the most justified way of telling his kind to fuck off without becoming part of the modern world.
I'm with the North Sentinelese on this. Let them be.
treestar
(82,383 posts)but I do remember earlier in life being around evangelicals and their embrace of the "Great Commission." Now it just seems like cultural supremacy to me, and in the article, even evangelicals are starting to question it that way. Thus the contrast between Chau and the questioning of his mission with the hagiography towards the 5 killed by an Ecuadorian tribe in the 1950s.
People could look at God the way we look at language - every culture has a religion of its own - why does our have to be "right?" It is entwined with our culture's feeling of supremacy - the same reason we try to bring democracy to Iraq or the colonization of parts of the world that Europeans seemed addicted to.
I recall my first day of college being approached by a rabid evangelizer. Asked me if I died tnoight, did I think I would have eternal life? The last thing I needed my first big day far from home! They can be really obnoxious. In their own view there are plenty of "unsaved" right here in the USA, so why they need to go to someplace like North Sentinal Island is beyond me. Sounds like he was thinking he'd be a big hero as that is about the toughest place you could possibly evangelize.
Demonaut
(8,914 posts)Siwsan
(26,251 posts)The Darwin Award
He's no different from those snake handling preachers who get bit and die. Well, except that he is also kind of like the snake, since he was possibly a conduit for all kinds of nasty 'bugs' for which the islanders have no immunity.
YessirAtsaFact
(2,064 posts)What a brainwashed idiot
Racerdog1
(808 posts)Trying to impose himself and his dumbshit beliefs on others. Yeah, major idiot.
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)progressoid
(49,951 posts)Why single him out? All evangelicals are American Dickheads.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)because once he could tell them about Jesus they would go to heaven if they died
Looks like they were more concerned about life on the island than a heaven or his dickhead agenda, so they had to kill the invader
MineralMan
(146,262 posts)gilligan
(194 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)and because he went out of his way to break the law, he's a dickhead.
If he wanted to convert others to his religion, there are plenty of much safer places to try. Somebody from his church should have sat his ass down and told him that he needs a lot more experience to try a more dangerous Mission.
Merlot
(9,696 posts)Which is what I find most appaling. The people who encouraged this should be held accountable as well.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)then I would definitely consider them to be at fault as well, even more so. Likely taking advantage of a naive guy's enthusiasm.
malthaussen
(17,175 posts)Tikki
(14,549 posts)Most often, when a person is high they dont stop and think about the ramifications of their
decisions.
I hope there werent people behind the scenes pushing him on.
To me, that would be criminal.
Tikki
Initech
(100,042 posts)jrthin
(4,834 posts)pamdb
(1,332 posts)I vote dickhead.
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)Nuffer
(40 posts)Dickhead! Obviously those people did not want the asshole shoving his religion down their throats....he got what he deserved....evangelicals are snakes.
Turbineguy
(37,295 posts)Dickhead.
atreides1
(16,067 posts)Definitely "American Dickhead"!!!!
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)else zealous. Perhaps the kind of anti-religion zealot who feels world peace requires converting religious beliefs to secular. Just the flip side of the coin.
He was already a world traveler, though, and also seems to have combined his proselytizing for god with a strong taste for adventure and variety. He'd never have run out of people to convert back in Kansas, or wherever he came from.
dembotoz
(16,785 posts)nycbos
(6,034 posts)Botany
(70,449 posts)My name is John, I love you and Jesus loves you. Chau was killed, apparently by bows and arrows, the next day on the beach.
Demsrule86
(68,473 posts)shocking.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,262 posts)According to his beliefs, he's with his beloved Jesus now. That's a happy ending for him and for the tribe.
Demsrule86
(68,473 posts)hueymahl
(2,449 posts)And a Dickhead
https://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2018-13.html
procon
(15,805 posts)in invading these tribal people's lands in a deliberate attempt to destroy their culture and alter their society. He was selfish and set himself up as the sole and arbitrary judge of their lives, unmindful of the irreversible damage his intrusion would have done to the tribe. The only thing he was interested in was gaining fame and notoriety for his uninvited proselytizing.
stopbush
(24,393 posts)Hes actions stem from his being a Christian, not an American.
PatrickforO
(14,559 posts)actually see a difference between cultural imperialism and 'boiling it down to the gospels'.
I guess I don't see that difference. In this case, it was a remote tribe living off the coast of India on an island - a tribe that had never had any contact with Europeans or Americans. How is going to them to 'preach the gospel' different one iota from engaging in other types of cultural imperialism. Preaching the gospel to these people IS cultural imperialism.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)I've got no sympathy for this Bible-thumping shit.
He broke about 20 laws doing what he did, he put the Sentinelese at great risk because apparently, horrible lethal diseases to which they have no immunity have to take second-fiddle to Jeeeeeeezus.
The Sentinelese were in the right to turn him into a human shish-ka-bob. Basic self-defense.
LeftInTX
(25,149 posts)dalton99a
(81,406 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,168 posts).
He has one 5-star and three 1-star reviews. Only 2 start out of 5.
The one person who left a comment says he is dismissive of patients.
https://www.healthgrades.com/physician/dr-patrick-chau-2nrhq
.
3Hotdogs
(12,332 posts)Chau will be a hologram so I don't need to pay money for a lead.
Jon Voight can play the leader of the missionary training school and Tebow can be on the beach at Daytona, throwing spears at a fishing boat.
Any other ideas would be helpful and appreciated.
gordianot
(15,234 posts)He promptly drowns and his body gets shot by arrows. The presence of his body is a potential contamination on the beach.
keithbvadu2
(36,673 posts)Sneederbunk
(14,279 posts)keithbvadu2
(36,673 posts)Christian missionary witnesses for Jesus.
Converting the heathens by witnessing for Christ.
Witnessing with words probably not found in the Bible.
IronLionZion
(45,380 posts)His selfish actions might lead to wiping out these people who did nothing to anyone who didn't go to their island and bother them.
Diseases from the outside world could wipe them out. Or law enforcement/military might do it. Unfortunately this event has gotten this island and it's people way too much attention and will encourage more dickheads to go and bother these people.
The British kidnapped these people and they quickly died of disease. That's a big reason why they don't trust any outsiders.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)we're celebrating the pastor for resisting the ICE arrest of an immigrant, which is also breaking the law.
I think he's a dickhead because he chose to force his worldview on a people who had demonstrated, in no uncertain terms, that they did not want him there.
IronLionZion
(45,380 posts)"chose to force their liberal worldview on a people who had demonstrated, in no uncertain terms, that they did not want liberals there."
keithbvadu2
(36,673 posts)The one true religion...
whathehell
(29,034 posts)If you don't yet know that young males, disproportionate to their numbers, die all the time as a result of foolish risk taking, you've obviously never read The Darwun Awards.
ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)Just asking.
the_sly_pig
(740 posts)Ill always remember an Al Franken quote hen he was on Air America when it came to the religious. It went something like, we dont need to fear the people of faith, we need to fear the ones that are sure. This moron was sure.
geardaddy
(24,926 posts)kimbutgar
(21,060 posts)Those people warned him to stay away and he ignored their wishes.
shanti
(21,675 posts)His arrogance killed him.
tenderfoot
(8,425 posts)in fact, I think it will mark the beginning of the end of the Sentinelese people at the hand of these "missionaries".
MichMary
(1,714 posts)when the culture is "stone age?"
TexasBushwhacker
(20,148 posts)uriel1972
(4,261 posts)MichMary
(1,714 posts)they would choose electricity and flush toilets over whatever they use now.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)The fact is that they have a society, we don't need the island, there is no reason that they cannot be left alone, and there is no compelling reason to force them to change.
It's their home; leave them alone.
MichMary
(1,714 posts)an alternative. Maybe they would choose a little bit of modern civilization if they knew it was available.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)It's not our place to say, for now.
In 70 or 80 years, that may change, as rising seas eliminate their fishing lagoons.
Tarc
(10,475 posts)Bettie
(16,076 posts)stone age? Seriously, what is wrong with it?
There is definitely something wrong with being willing to kill an entire cultural group in order to spread your particular religious dogma.
Though, I bet his religious group would have praised him if he had managed to kill them all.
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)I want you to drop English and to adopt Latin. Latin grammar is 100% logical, without any loopholes or special cases. Thus, Latin is superior to your language. Speak Latin.
Or Esperanto. Esperanto is an artificial spoken language with modern terms, derived from Latin, that was supposed to be a new neutral international language that connects us all. Speak Esperanto.
Also, I want you to adopt new philosophical concepts.
I want you to think in new scientific concepts. Classic 19th century materialism is outdated. You have to adopt a Quantum-Field and Multiverse view. Matter does not exist. Everything is energy and fields.
I want you to believe in new religious concepts that far transcend the biblical God in its intellectual complexity.
I want you to express yourself in entirely new metaphors, memes and "imagines" that have no connection to your prior culture.
And lastly, I want you to adopt entirely new moral and ethical standards that have no connection to your personal experience.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Youd be welcome to try. Some might be convinced. If you reached critical mass , you could change culture. No culture stays the same.
tenderfoot
(8,425 posts)eom
Kingofalldems
(38,425 posts)colorado_ufo
(5,730 posts)He never got the chance to see his mistake or how he could have done things better, or understand that this was not the time to contact these people.
Bev54
(10,039 posts)frogmarch
(12,153 posts)Poor guy probably thought he was doing good.
Tarc
(10,475 posts)"Follow your dreams" is great, it makes for nice bumper stickers and crochet pillows.
But y'know, sometimes your dreams are dumb.
pecosbob
(7,533 posts)Crunchy Frog
(26,578 posts)Also a strong contender for the Darwin award.
It was basically an attempt at cultural genocide. Not okay.
gopiscrap
(23,726 posts)PufPuf23
(8,755 posts)Iggo
(47,535 posts)Next case....
3catwoman3
(23,950 posts)...at them in a language they do not understand, seems ill-considered, regardless of the reason for the approach.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,325 posts)RIP, dummy.
Except for the selfies of himself on adventures in exotic places. That might elevate him to "dickhead". It's close.
pansypoo53219
(20,955 posts)Hekate
(90,564 posts)Neema
(1,151 posts)Believe whatever bullshit you want to believe, but stop shoving it down everyone else's throat.
peggysue2
(10,824 posts)From what I read this final stunt was preceded by two other attempts. So Chau knew these tribesmen were not receptive. Whoever was encouraging the reckless 'outreach,' should be ashamed. A young life was lost senselessly and it also left the tribesmen vulnerable to retribution and--as Dreher points out--mass infection.
Stupid and pointless.