How do Democrats handle the trade and tariff issues in 2020?

[Renew Deal]

Last edited Thu Dec 6, 2018, 11:33 AM - Edit history (1)

It’s not a straightforward issue because some of the unions support them. So how do Democrat’s articulate a trade vision and discuss tariffs? My feeling on it is that we say that tariffs are a tool of trade, but not the only tool and that Tariff Man took the wrong action at the wrong time.

[Cicada]

1. On intellectual property, technology, tariffs are wrong tool

China can improperly get technology from any of many nations, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, France etc. they all have the technology China wants to improperly take without proper compensation. The only way to stop China is through an alliance with many nations acting together. Trump by attacking everyone makes that impossible. We need a “diplomatic” President to control Chinese trade abuses. And that is the primary trade problem we face.

[Blue_true]

10. Excellent summary. nt

[beachbum bob]

2. running away from trade deals is certainly not the answer. US has given China free reign in Asia

[still_one]

3. The Great Depression demonstrated that Tariffs are a disaster. They don't work. Thom Hartmann was

and I haven't heard lately, I assume is still a big advocate of tariffs.

The way you deal with trade issues is through negotiations, but unfortunately the U.S. has decided that we TELL countries what to do, and if they don't abide we will unilaterally start a trade war, and utilize tarriffs, which are then reciprocated by those countries we trade with.

The reality is we are a global economy, and unless the U.S. wants an isolationist policy that is not going to change.

Increasing tarriffs on steel and aluminum hurt a lot more than it helped.

The billion dollars lost by GM was contributed to by this trade war and tarriffs. China is a huge market for GM vehicles

Everything is interconnected today

[Demsrule86]

4. That is a GOP talking point...revisionist history...completely untrue. Trade was not at a level

where it had anything to do with the depression. The GOP pass Smoot Hawley in 1930-two years after the markets crashed and banks dropped like flies. In fact, just like in 08, it was careless behavior by banks and other corporations which is why the bucket laws and Glass Steagall was passed after the depression. Since both are gone now and the banks are back to their bad behavior expect a 'panic' (word used before depression was coined) every decade of so. We made it more attractive to send jobs overseas by taxes and unfair trade agreements and in the end it will destroy this country...it must be stopped by tariffs and tax law changes if we are to even survive as a country. We need policy that keeps jobs in this country- including both manufacturing, tech and white collar jobs.

[still_one]

5. You are absolutely right Demsrule. We were just starting to recover from the crash when they passed

that, and essentially extended the depression until finally WWII brought us out of it

[Demsrule86]

7. We were not recovering in 30....things were desperate. Roosevelt's new deal saved this country;the

war increased prosperity but the country was in recovery before. This demonstrated how effective Keynesian economics are.There was a hiccup when Roosevelt attempted to balance the budget and sent unemployment higher. But the idea that Smoot-Hawley caused the depression or extended it...is a GOP talking point and revisionist history. It is just not true...and the trade we have today where we do nothing to protect jobs in this country will in the end destroy everything that Roosevelt accomplished.

[still_one]

8. We slightly disagree. The Smoot-Hawley Tariff exacerbated the Great Depression.

and most economist subscribe to that.

After Smoot-Hawley was passed retaliatory tariffs by America's trading partners were major factors of the reduction of American exports and imports by more than half during the Depression.

The New Deal helped people survive the great depression. It brought immediate economic relief and reforms in all areas of industry, and helped bring the end of the Great Depression.


Unfortunately, many of the safeguards and regulations that were ushered in by the New Deal have slowly been whittled down, and with this new push in trade wars and tarriffs, we are precariously flirting with having history repeat itself. We almost ran into that with George W. Bush, but fortunately President Obama led our country out of that financial collapse, and Dodd/Frank and other measures were taken to help keep us on track, until the country decided to elect trump, and the republican Congress.

[Adrahil]

6. Tariffs are regressive.

They disproportionately impact poor and working class people.

To be effective, they have to cause enough pain to American consumers so that they stop buying the formerly cheaper imported goods.

There has to be a be a better way.

[Demsrule86]

9. Job losses affect the same folks ...you can't afford even cheap shit if you have no job.

We need to protect jobs.

[Blue_true]

11. No one is arguing against protecting jobs.

Just against doing it with a sledgehammer that destroys many more jobs. For every steelworker that losses a job to trade, there are 2-3 workers whose jobs depend on that very same trade.

What we need to do is work toward trade deals that level the situation in regards to wages, protecting the environment, product safety. A steelworker in China can't be paid 1/6th per hour of the total compensation that a US steelworker is paid, and the company the Chinese steelworker works for can't be allowed to pollute the air, sand and water anyway that it wants to.

What Trump is doing is akin to a blind bull in a china shop. All that happens is stuff gets broken, with total loss.

[Demsrule86]

15. Steel tariffs are useless and create few good paying jobs. If you want to bring steel back, you

would need massive support for building plants...and steel tariffs hurt autos...which has many more good paying jobs.

[MichMan]

26. What is the probability that a trade deal will force equivalent wages world wide ?

…. and environmental standards ???

[Blue_true]

27. Good question. As things stand, not very much chance.

But if we are to avoid chaos, that has to change.

[Adrahil]

12. well.....

1) No one is saying we don't need to "protect jobs," though we have to recognize that goal should be taking care of our people, not preserving jobs at all costs. Some jobs cannot be saved. We need to make sure people transition to outsourcing resistant jobs, and ensure they have the skills and knowledge to do things cheap foreign labor cannot.

2) When we DO need to protect specific jobs, there are better ways than tariffs passed on to consumers. We can start, for example, by imposing certain regulations on corporations that outsource (for example, limiting stock buybacks, executive bonuses, etc). In short, we should avoid, IMO, solutions that require inflicting pain on consumers.

3) We need to focus on structuring the economy and jobs for the future, not trying top preserve a fading past. Assembly line jobs are going away. We need to accept that and adapt.

[Demsrule86]

13. When you have dumping, tariffs are a tool that can be used if done properly. We should be

fighting for every electrical car job...it is the future...not let the corporations use las environmental standards and shitty wages in third world countries to make the maximum property ...charge those American companies that ship jobs overseas...using taxes, tariffs whatever. If we make nothing this country is done.

[Adrahil]

18. Dumping is a unique case.

Dumping does not reflect actual market differences, but anti-competitive practices, so I'll give you dumping. But that's not what we're really discussing here. We're talking about tariffs as a way to artificially raise prices on imports.

But here's the thing: Simply charging companies more money just results in higher consumer prices. Don't get me wrong, we need the prices products to reflect their REAL cost and not a cost subsidized by the taxpayers in other ways. But we CAN eliminate less direct "good deals" and and back door profit making.

But if we "win" by making goods too expensive to buy, I'm not sure what we're winning.

[Demsrule86]

19. Tariffs if done properly address this...Democrats need to figure out how to address trade...and bad

trade deals simply won't be tolerated in the Mid West...the GOP knows that championing tariffs and railing against trade agreements will get them elected ...and they won't fix it, but people will take that chance because they still hope...Democrats should not be the party of globalization. I cringe when I hear these jobs aren't coming back from our side...steel is still made and so are many other things...and what about the new energy opportunities. What we have here is the selling out of America in order to profit the few already rich corporations and individuals. We need jobs.

[Demsrule86]

14. Cars are still made...not a 'fading past'.

And you run on this message, you will lose every election.

[Adrahil]

17. If you tell assembly line workers you can save their jobs, you are lying to them.

Fewer and fewer workers are need to run a car manufacturing plant.

[Demsrule86]

20. And if you don't try to save their jobs, they won't vote for you. Why should they?

How about actually trying to save the jobs...we would win endlessly and save the country.

[Adrahil]

23. You tell them:

1) That new industries will be encouraged to set up where they are.
2) That they will be retrained with relevant skills.
3) That they will not starve or have to go without healthcare if they are out of a job.

Seriously... are you just advocating lying to them? We cannot save unskilled and semi-skilled jobs. They WILL be replaced by automation.

It's like Trump telling the coal miners that the mines will open. It's a lie.

[Demsrule86]

25. Retraining is a dirty word in the midwest...new industries are going overseas and

they don't want to live marginally on the edge of starvation if they have no job which may won't. This has been said many times and has been proven not to be true. We are sending the new jobs overseas like electric vehicles with the old kind of vehicles...so what you say would be a lie about new industries being set up. It won't work.

[Demsrule86]

22. I can add a few people to your list...accountants, call service organization, tech workers....the

list goes on and on. There is a concentrated effort to send good paying jobs overseas...and it will destroy us. it is not just assembly workers.

[Adrahil]

24. That's not untrue.

Any unskilled or semi-skilled job is on the block. And some skilled jobs can be performed remotely. We need to foster industires and effort that require semi-skilled and skilled workers HERE.

Infrastructure

R&D

Green Energy

[WeekiWater]

16. As a part of a larger Labor Contact With American's.

We need a relentless effort to strengthen trade agreements with those we do business with. The TPP must be revived. The cornerstone of our selling points must be to equal out labor costs and conditions through these agreements.

Second, if you want to set the stage for future labor, revamp our education system for the jobs of tomorrow; not yesteryear. This one is even less sexy politically but we have to do it.

[Demsrule86]

21. The TPP sucks that has not changed. And it will send millions of jobs overseas. It allows

slavery for God's sake. If Democrats champion reviving the TPP and not on fixing the already really bad deals we have in a way that preserves jobs and trade, they will lose. Why do we allow both Japan and Korea free access to our markets for various things including electronics and autos...and yet they block their markets from our goods...especially cars. When I drive by shuttered factories and see homeless families here in Northern Ohio and in Indiana, I am sickened...any policy that continues this, should be abandoned by Democrats. When thousands of auto jobs are being sent overseas as we speak, yours is a message that will destroy our chances in the Mid West.