IT'S BACK - Curse that Cursive -

[packman]

Could cursive be making a comeback?





Students in Ohio may be required to learn the craft after the state’s senate passed House Bill 58 last Thursday.

The bill, according to local NBC affiliate WCMH-TV, would allocate resources to schools allowing for the development and implementation of a curriculum to teach cursive handwriting.

While some question the relevance of the handwriting style in the age of the computer, students from more than 10 states are still required to learn cursive, with Alabama and Louisiana joining the list in 2016.

Florida also made it part of the learning requirements for children in the third, fourth and fifth grades, The New York Times reported.
The curriculum, which will be optional for Ohio schools to implement, would be aimed at children in kindergarten through to the fifth grade

Note: video at site has researcher claim that cursive writing could be a help in treating autistic children

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ohio-schools-cursive-handwriting_us_5c0c5e73e4b0a606a9a951a5

I can remember filling column after column, row after row with loops and curves learning cursive - Gotta admit, cursive has an eloquence and grace that block-lettering lacks

[Kaleva]

1. It could be considered art

[brush]

4. Some have beautiful handwriting. Unfortunately others make indecipherable scribblings.

Alas, we must take the good with the bad.

[Kaleva]

8. Same with art and music

Everyone should be exposed to such even if only a few have the talent

[Left-over]

79. Block lettering should never be acceptable in business.

[Codeine]

101. Why not?

I’m genuinely curious. I work with a lot of folks who didn’t grow up writing with our Western alphabet, so expecting legible cursive writing from them is rather silly.

And honestly, nobody should be doing much handwriting of any kind in a business setting (or anywhere else, for that matter.) Handwritten communication is an anachronism.

[Mariana]

122. And get off my lawn! nt.

[Stargleamer]

2. I was always struck by how

the capital Q looked like the number 2 ~ I never understood that

[Hugin]

6. In use, about the only time you'd see a capital Q is if the word started with the letter.

Like Quack or Quagmire.

In both examples the Q is followed by a u. I wonder if there are any purely Q starting words out there without the u?

Anybody have an example? Scrabble aficionados? Anyone?

[dhol82]

9. Wow. More than I thought.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_containing_Q_not_followed_by_U

[Hugin]

15. Thanks for the quality response.

[PatSeg]

46. Oh thank you

I am going to save that for my Scrabble games!

[lapucelle]

99. They're not all in the official Scrabble dictionary.

Here's a list for Scrabble.

http://scrabble.merriam.com/q-words-without-u

[PatSeg]

145. We use the Collins English Dictionary

They have more words! I'll check the Wikipedia list against the Collins dictionary.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

11. Qcumber...

Sorry I just had to do it.

[Hugin]

14. +1

[eleny]

17. I'm so glad you did

[IronLionZion]

205. Qantas, the Australian airline

and Qi, which is a Chinese name for a person or energy. Qatar, the country.

[Hugin]

207. All good examples.

[LakeSuperiorView]

39. I always thought Z and Q were ridiculous.

I remember rebelling in second grade and wanting to write them more like the printed letters.

I think that we spent way too much time, way too young on cursive. Second graders are still scribblers, not having the hand eye coordination needed. It could be argued that cursive teaches hand eye coordination, but I remember hating it.

[PatSeg]

48. Though I prefer cursive as a rule,

I write capital Z and Q as printed letters.

[demigoddess]

58. we didn't get cursive until 7th grade. Until then it was printing.

Second grade IS too early.

side note: my dad always printed things in all caps. Found out later that it was because he had such beautiful handwriting.

[Pacifist Patriot]

67. Cursive was second grade for me.

No problem whatsoever that I can recall.

Teacher gave us Christmas cards written in cursive and then taught us to read and write it the second half of the school year.

[crazycatlady]

132. 3rd grade for me

I remember learning to write my name 'in script' in 2nd grade.

As an adult, my handwriting is a hybrid of print and cursive.

[ChazII]

175. Me, too.

Now it seems I print more often than not.

[RobinA]

198. Second Grade Here

About two months after my second grade teacher gave me an F on a spelling test for trying out my cursive without official approval she started teaching it. My reaction was the 1964 second grader's version of - "WTF." That was not the first, or the last, time that teacher caused that reaction.

[NastyRiffraff]

125. It was 3rd grade for me

The same time we began to use a ball point pen instead of a pencil. (Pens with a nib came a year later)

[jberryhill]

87. I prefer all the caps as block letters

Unless I’m signing my name.

[Stargleamer]

138. We made our Capital T's and F's differently than pictured here

They ended more with half-moons that the Capital G's and I's have. and the Capital F had a line through it to distinguish it from the Capital T.

[Stinky The Clown]

3. I like cursive and think I am pretty good at it. Not Spencerian, but still pretty good.

I also use a fountain pen.

[Codeine]

20. Aren't fountain pens really messy?

I’ve never used one but I’m often struck by how beautiful they can be.

Alas, as I do not write cursive one would be wasted on me. My utilitarian all-caps printing doesn’t rise to the level of a proper writing instrument.

[Stinky The Clown]

41. In unskilled hands they can be messy

I have used one since high school. They're not messy to me. Most of the ones I have are antiques that still work perfectly. They're beautiful, too.

My favorite is one identical to this, from 1934. A Parker Vacumatic.

[Codeine]

56. An 80+ yr old pen that still works?

That’s really cool!

Edited because math

[Stinky The Clown]

72. They are actually very simple devices.

Generally, they were made of metal (often sterling silver), hard rubber (identical material to bowling balls), or celluloid (still used for better eyeglasses). The nibs were made of 14 kt gold, not so much for the value of it but rather because gold (14 kt specifically) has the perfect blend of flexibility and stiffness. The part that needs replacement is the rubber ink bladder. They ossify over the decades. Back in the 1970s a group of collectors banded together to buy the machinery and tooling from the last company that produced them. They run one batch a year to keep collectors happy. Apart from the bladders, the pens, if cared for, can last another 80 years or even more.

Modern fountain pens use a variety of far more robust filling systems and are made of modern materials, such as acrylic. Nibs of better pens are still 14 kt gold.

Contrary to popular thought and romance, fountain pens do really do little to make your writing better.

[PatSeg]

60. I remember my first fountain pen

It was rather like a right of passage to graduate from pencil to fountain pen. At the time ball point pens were forbidden. I believe it was sixth grade when we allowed to use a fountain pen and picking it out at the jewelry store was a big deal. Mine was white, but can't remember the brand now.

Later, Sheaffer came out with the fountain pen that used cartridges. It was very popular, but lacked the romance of a real fountain pen.

[FuzzyRabbit]

91. I remember my first ball point pen.

We used fountain pens at school and at home, and then one day Dad came home from work and showed us this new-fangled ball point pen.

I fell in love right away - no more spilled ink.

[PatSeg]

157. Yeah

Fountain pens were pretty messy. The first ball point pens I used weren't the greatest though. They had a tendency to clump and skip, still better than ink stained fingertips and pockets.

[Stonepounder]

75. Or in the hands of lefties like me! n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

81. Both my sons are lefties and they both use them.

They both hold a pen in a mirror image of a right hander. I think more lefties tend to do the (now sure what it is called) "overhand" grip, and that will drag your hand over wet ink for sure!

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

90. Lefties either hook when they write,

or don't hook. It's generally connected to exactly how their brain is wired.

Rarely, a rightie will hook when writing.

My son is a rightie who hooks.

[Stonepounder]

124. The real problem was that I was a really good reader when I got to 2nd grade.

I think it bothered the teacher, so she decided that the 'proper' thing to do was to have me skip 2nd grade (and learning cursive) and put me into 3rd grade, where everyone (except me) knew cursive. I asked the 3rd grade teacher for help and she told me she 'didn't have time' so I sorta had to teach myself cursive.

Thank goodness for typewriters, electric typewriters, and computers. To this day the only thing I write in cursive is my name on the one check a month I write. Everything else, when I absolutely must put pen to paper, I print. Otherwise no one (including me) can read it.

[The Genealogist]

167. Beautiful Parker!!

Love those. I have one I would love to get restored, mine is blue. I know how to rebladder most simple lever fillers, but these babies are another beast altogether.

[WillowTree]

180. My Dad gave me one. Shades of green rather than brown.

Wonderful pen!

[delisen]

188. they do present smearing problems for left-handed people who are a significant

part of the population.

I agree about the beauty of antique pens and appreciate the romance of the age of writing with ink pens.

Our left to right system of writing, however, put left-handed people at a great disadvantage when writing with the old fountain pens.

[HAB911]

5. So how do kids not schooled in cursive

sign their names? Standard block lettering?

[Kaleva]

10. Yes.

[Codeine]

21. They still generally learn a signature.

And as someone who requires a lot of signatures from customers in my job I can assure you that even plenty of older people have a printed signature or a sort of generalized scrawl that bears no relationship to letters as we know them. Makes me feel better about my own rather sad signature.

[Igel]

34. The scrawl's fine.

It's what happens when you do the same thing over and over at high speed. Consider it not "scrawl" but "streamlined writing of a single symbol."

Like what happened the capital cursive Q. Started closed, but to make it go faster it was written faster. This, at a time when letters sometimes had different shapes from the present.

Most often what happens with kids not exposed to much cursive or just taught "a signature" is that it's painfully slow for them to sign anything. Then instead of looking at how the letters flow, you wind up comparing hesitations--where in the middle of "Smith" did the student have to stop or make a mid-letter correction.

My signature has letters that sort of look like some of the printed letters. Some are reduced to lines.

Not nearly as bad as

[Codeine]

36. I wonder if he counts the loops

or just stops when it looks like enough.

[Ms. Toad]

40. Mine actually is a scrawl.

No relation to the letters - and not unform from signature to signature.

Not sure when it started - but it's been at least a decade since I had a signature that anyone (even me) could connect to the actual letters in my name.

[jberryhill]

89. I have a consistent scrawl

You can make out my initials and that’s about it.

[Codeine]

93. Same here.

Three fairly clear letters and a vague sort of tail.

[HAB911]

49. Oh yeah!

Since I retired in 2012 my signature has gone to hell, sometimes I have to actually think about it. Beyond work even we used to sign checks etc all the time. wow

[Mariana]

126. Why not? It's not like that has never been done.

[dhol82]

7. I'm sure I studied Palmer in elementary school (1950's)

However, I don’t remember those examples of the capital A or Q not the lower case r.
Curious.

[Codeine]

37. I learned a different "r" as well.

But I like that one better.

[PatSeg]

61. Same here

Later I used the lower case "r" as above for many years, but too often people couldn't read it, so I went back to the "r" I was taught in grade school, except in my signature.

[eppur_se_muova]

129. I was taught both forms of 'r'. I chose to use the one above because it was not the norm. :)

I also use a variant of final 't' -- same reason. I like being idiosyncratic.

That 'F' looks ridiculous; never seen anything like it before. My 'F' looks like a 'T' with a crossbar. And both had a lower 'backstroke' that that one is lacking, like this:

?

My 'B', 'P', and 'R' all start with a fat loop, instead of retracing the vertical stroke.

Now I'm trying to master Cyrillic cursive.

[WillowTree]

181. I liked the "r" as shown above best, too.

My last name, however, had an "r" preceded by an "o" and it just never looked right, so I came to use the more standard version. Over time, though, I developed my own style in general that's totally legible, but breaks a lot of the rules, and I like it that way.

[crazycatlady]

133. Palmer was used in the late 80s

I remember their handwriting workbooks.

[janterry]

12. My teenager cannot read cursive

n/t

[Rorey]

28. Neither can my grandson

A few years ago he was spending a awfully long time studying the birthday card I gave him. I'm sure I didn't write anything so meaningful that it would have required that much pondering. It was probably something like "You know Grandma doesn't shop, so buy yourself something you like." I finally asked him what was up and he said he couldn't read cursive. I was shocked. I had no idea it was no longer taught here.

[PatSeg]

64. When I have debates about teaching cursive,

this is the point that I often make, that people unfamiliar with cursive will not be able to read handwritten letters and documents. One of my hobbies is genealogy and reading cursive is extremely important. For someone not at least exposed to cursive, they would need a translator as if cursive was another language.

On a more aesthetic level, there is something satisfying about writing in cursive. It seems more creative to me.

[Mariana]

103. If your hobby is genealogy

and you didn't know how to read cursive, wouldn't you put in the effort to learn to read it?

[PatSeg]

146. I don't know what other people might do

though it is more difficult to learn as an adult than as a child.

[Mariana]

160. I don't know why you think it would be harder for an adult.

You're not learning a new language, or how to read. You're just learning some different shapes for the letters and words you already know.

[PatSeg]

163. Most things are easier to learn when you are young

[Mariana]

165. That hasn't been my experience.

Either way, someone who's motivated to learn to read cursive shouldn't have any trouble.

[Codeine]

108. Genealogy nerds have to learn all sorts of new skills.

To research my family tree I would need to learn to puzzle out that damnable old Gothic German script. I have to imagine cursive English (which really doesn’t differ much from print) would be easy.

[Adrahil]

127. Can you read this?

Probably not.

Times change. Cursive has largely outlived it's broad usefulness, IMO.

[PatSeg]

148. And in my opinion, it has not

There is a big difference between trying to read something this old and trying to read letters written by one's parents, grandparents, or great grandparents.

[Adrahil]

155. Cursive was derided as "bastard" writing...

When it appeared in the 14th century.

Anyone who doesn’t know cursive can learn it on their own. It is not difficult. The class time would be better spent on a more relevant skill.

It’s interesting to see when DU’s conservative streak surfaces.

[PatSeg]

156. "Conservative streak"???

I don't think it has anything to do with conservative or liberal. It is a matter of opinion, perspective, and life experiences.

As for how "class time" is spent, I am amazed at how many hours children spend in school and doing homework, yet so many know so little about history, geography, current events, government, literature, music, and art. Obviously class time is not being used constructively already.

[Adrahil]

206. I'm not talking politics here... I'm talking resistance to change. NT

[tymorial]

203. Oh for ffs. Conservative?

Give me a break.

[Adrahil]

204. little "c" conservative....

as in resistant to change. Not politically conservative.

[Mariana]

100. If your teenager ever feels the need to read or write cursive

he or she can learn it. The books are inexpensive and easily available.

[Hugin]

13. My Mom insisted I learn cursive before I was even in school...

I didn't mind because I thought it was fun.

I didn't learn how to write block characters until around the 2nd grade when the other kids were learning how to read/write. I believe the theory at the time was block printing was easier to learn combined with learning to read and it was taught first before cursive.

I disagreed with the theory.

I've always had strong opinions.

[Totally Tunsie]

16. Such a popular letter that "E" is...they needed 2 of them!

Anyone who went to parochial school knows that cursive is the ONLY way to write! It was literally drilled into us on double-lined paper by those nuns...Capital letters, 2 lines; lower-case letters, 1 line or half the height of capitals.

It saddens me that we've had to dumb down so that the younger generation can read our writing. If you can't write it, you can't read it.

[Codeine]

23. It's still quite readable even if you don't write it.

The letter shapes are basically the same. I don’t imagine anyone who had basic literacy would find it difficult to read regardless of their own ability to write it.

[Totally Tunsie]

25. Not too sure about that.

Put some well-written cursive in front of a 4-18 year-old, and see how they do reading it. You might be surprised to see how they struggle with the letter recognition. It's rather sad.

[Codeine]

27. I've got a 10yr old and 14yr old.

They both handle it just fine. The brain is a very plastic object at that age, and pattern recognition is a basic human instinct. I wouldn’t worry overmuch about whether kids are taught to join up their letters or not, considering the fact that writing things down by hand is about as outmoded a communication model as any and grows moreso by the day.

[dhol82]

135. I have heard reports of millennials who cannot read cursive.

These are not apocryphal stories.

[alphafemale]

18. I have to transcribe faxes all day

Most people are not capable of being able to legibly PRINT.

You expect me to read their cursive scrawls now?

Go to hell with foisting cursive back on us.

It's not happening.

[Codeine]

24. Exactly.

My boss was in my car the other day and saw my notepad and literally broke out laughing at my chicken scratching. If I wrote in cursive it would become impossible for even me to decipher.

[Liberty Belle]

19. So cursive won't be a secret language for us oldies anymore?

[DavidDvorkin]

22. It will die out eventually, as it should, despite these rearguard actions.

[erronis]

53. Just wait till the lecctriciy dies and your computer becomes a paperweight

We've all become so dependent on computers/internets (and spill-chuckers, encyclopedia look-ups) that having to communicate mechanically will probably kill a lot of us.

How many know any morse-code? Or smoke signals? Or how to string a wire between two cans?

LOL.

[Mariana]

106. Being able to write in cursive rather than lettering

won't change any of that.

[erronis]

114. Agree - but I think that the decline in writing skills is due to typewriters and computers

Cursive was encouraged back in my days (50s) since it was supposedly faster than writing each block letter's lines.

Now that I only write 2-3 checks per month my personal scrawl has become more block-like. I can't imagine writing 3-10 pages a day in a journal as my father did.

[Mariana]

118. Cursive exists because it's the best way to write neatly

when you use a fountain pen. That's what it's for. All these rationalizations (It's good for the brain! It's faster than lettering!) are silly. There's no reason that knowledge of cursive can't be left to specialists and hobbyists nowadays.

[obamanut2012]

139. Yup, it was invented for quill pens

Because joined writing meant fewer blots.

I am an old, hated cursive, never use it now except for my signature. I write via my computer, and print when I need to take notes.

We wasted so much time on it in class. It needs to be sent to art class.

[Adrahil]

144. It goes back to the 14th c. When...

It was referred to as “bastarde” writing... bastard writing. Itwas decried for being vulgar and too informal. The gothic “black letter” style used in formal writing was very slow to write. Bastarde allowed transition between lwtters,speeding writing and reducing blots. It was used for documents which required some speed to produce... informal notes, letters, routinr government documents. Eventually it became the standard.

[delisen]

189. I think shorthand is an alternative.

[RobinA]

200. I, For One, Can String A Wire

My worry is that "electronic records" will be the death of records. How about all those records we look at in genealogy ending in the 1990s because we don't have the software to read "old" stuff that doesn't even exist in print. We can learn cursive or Latin, but we can't read stuff that that some future computer can't translate.

[Mariana]

208. Is that even happening?

In my state, vital records, land records, court records and the like are still kept on paper.

[kysrsoze]

26. Our kids are learning it in public school. I think it's good for them.

[delisen]

69. It is great for those with good fine motor skills. it was the heartbreak of my childhood

Plus as a left hander in a school that prided itself on using real ink pens and right hander spiral note books and desks school could get hellish.

Ah well it probably made me the political cynic I am today and better prepared for democracy by those better built to fit in and lean in.

[Auggie]

29. Always liked the capital Q

Bet most adults today wouldn't be able to recognize it as anything but a "2"

[OxQQme]

201. Double capital "QQ"s in my screen name

From the mouth of Steve Martin, "Oh, excuuuse me."

At 78, I look back to my Granmother's writing desk when I was a wee child.
She had an ink well and a feather quill pen that she still used for special occasions like birth announcements and invitations.
My first cursive mentor allowed me to use that.

Although she'd be horrified seeing the current iteration of my virtually un-readable signature.

I can do both, but my block lettering is quite fast and perhaps more legible.
I always use block when filling in the name and monetary amount when writing a check to avoid any mis-interpretation.

[underpants]

30. The second I was to.d I didn't have to write in cursive I stopped.

It was my first awareness of not liking stoopid or drama.

[Codeine]

31. That was my experience as well.

I saw another student’s paper on a teacher’s desk with print rather than cursive and said “Wait, we can print?!” She assured me that she didn’t care as long as it was readable and I never looked back.

[MyOwnPeace]

32. About cursive..........

there are many sound arguments FOR it (check the research - no time here) but, with the technological age ruling the world (computers, smart phones, etc.) AND the school's requirement to spend every moment doing test-prep for the next round of mandated testing, there is no time in the schedule for handwriting instruction.

CLIFF NOTES:
1. no time in schedule for instruction
2. people type and use smart phones

[LunaSea]

33. heh....

[Codeine]

35. That's fantastic!!

[Coventina]

38. One of my favorites!

[Mosby]

123. I laughed, didnt get it at first.

[honest.abe]

209. Good one!

[Igel]

42. Nope. No comeback.

The kids learn it in the district I used to teach in. Then they don't use it. It's too much work to come up to speed for what they think they get out of it, and since many of them think planning for what's going on this coming Monday afternoon constitutes "extreme long-term planning," saying that they'd save time in six months is like telling them they'll grow to like the taste of something when they're 20, or even think not getting tattoos on their foreheads when they're 65. It's far beyond the timeline most of them think matters.

It's like what used to be called "touch typing". They see me type at 100 words a minute and think of it as a special talent, not just practice. I've seen kids use cell-phone keypad techniques on their laptops. It's faster than hunt-and-peck, but with a large error rate. They need spell check.

Even think, wane they get done their text, unless they halve a grammar checker to proofread, they real make miss takes.

And even the grammar checker doesn't catch everything. At the end, the student will say that s/he's literate (or send me an email saying s/he's literature), not aware that product =/= knowledge. It's why they think they're masters if they cram and get 75 on a test. "I got an A in algebra I, and that means I know it really well" says the student who looks at 1 = 2/x and proudly says, "Therefore x = 1/2" or "If x^2 = 16, then x = 8" in some sort of misguided appeal to (their own) authority.

[MrsMatt]

88. Touch typing!

I amazed my 12 year old son by typing what he was dictating without breaking eye contact with him.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

104. Ahhh, yes. Touch typing.

People who use hunt and peck to type have no clue just how fast touch typing really can be.

One of the reasons I hate texting and hate those stupid pad things is that you can't touch type on them. I want a regular keyboard like the one I'm currently using.

[ProfessorGAC]

196. My Mother Was A Transcriptionist

Not a stenographer, a transcriptionist. She would type out recordings for legal purposes. The recorder (like a Dicta-Phone) had a slow down pedal but she rarely needed it.

She could probably type around 120 wpm on a manual, mechanical typewriter. Once word processing and computers kicked in, i can't imagine how fast she would have gone. On a mechanical, i was probably around 80 wpm with an error rate of 2. You could just tell by listening to her that she was WAY faster than me.

On the topic at hand, because of my mom's expertise, i knew how to touch type before i knew how to legibly write cursive.

[NRaleighLiberal]

43. I always loved it - typically had the best handwriting in my class. It is an art.

I still use it. There were two methods - Palmer, and the one taught in RI schools, Rhinehart.

I don't expect it to be retained or make a comeback...but it is very therapeutic to learn and use!

[Revanchist]

54. That's why I looks strange to me

I grew up in Pawtucket

[NRaleighLiberal]

62. Me too! Tolman class of 74

[mwooldri]

44. I had to learn this in school....

Seriously. Mind it was art class.

[erronis]

55. Impressive! I'm waiting for an eastern alphabet writer to chime in here.

Pictographs, ideograms, so many varieties.

[Codeine]

59. Cuneiform or nuthin!

If we’re goin’ back we’re goin’ ALL the way back!

[Ms. Toad]

45. Learned well, it is to block printing as touch typing is to hunt and peck.

Whether it is necessary - I'm agnostic on that.

But as a replacement for D'Nealian (a slanted block printing they taught my daughter), I'm all for it. D'Nealian had no reason to exist. It is no faster than block printing, and no easier to read.

[Codeine]

63. Yeah, slanted print is awful.

I print straight up and down, in all caps — smaller caps for lower case. Normally it’s a disasterous chicken scratch but if I stop being a lazy shit and do it properly it looks really nice.

[Ms. Toad]

65. When they introduced it, I thought it was a precursor to cursive -

but then they never taught my daughter cursive. So she's in the lost generation. (I should test her and see if she can actually read cursive)

My cursive is pretty much chicken scratch - but I can write cursive clearly and legibly more quickly than I can print.

[Revanchist]

47. That's not the style I was taught as a child

That is one messed up looking capital f



In fact half of those letters are too "fancy" for everyday use. The ones I posted are more practical for writing.

[Codeine]

66. Even before a dumped cursive I used block letters

for capital F, G, Q, and Z. The ones you’ve posted make a bit more sense than the old-school examples we were taught. Except the V — I reject it outright.

[Wolf Frankula]

50. So the sovereign of Great Britain is a

Twoeen. And that striped horsey like beast is a threebra. And let us also swap v and u, and j and i. So thjs sjte js Democratjc Vndergrovnd.

Cursive is cursed.

VVolf

[BamaRefugee]

51. Next educational "ADVANCE" in Red States: writing with chalk on the back of a shovel. n/t

[Nasruddin]

74. Cursive States of America

And their battle flag - the swirls and curls

[Akacia]

52. I actually write faster in cursive than print. NT.

[Pacifist Patriot]

68. I write way faster in cursive. Print feels plodding to me.

[Midwestern Democrat]

83. I write in cursive both because it's faster and because it causes a lot less hand cramp

[Nasruddin]

97. Maybe

Generally speaking, results are mixed. Some testing shows no difference, some show cursive writers are faster.
We all adapt to what we do the most.

I would guess - there is some evidence for this - cursive evolved to deal with pens.
If you lift an old nib or quill pen off the page, jump, and set it down, you will have blots
from time to time, sometimes at lift off, often at landing. You can see this in facsimiles of
old legers from the 19th century. You can develop skills to avoid this but it still happens. This is not an issue any more,
most people haven't needed to use fountain pens since the '60's (weren't they outlawed by Vatican II?).

There are a lot of redundant strokes and movements in our cursive that are unnecessary for information
transmission (consider lower case f). There are very few cursive letters that have fewer strokes than the printed ones. But
even the printed ones have extra complexity and shorthand systems evolved to leave them both in the dust.
Arabic script, which has the same roots as our alphabet, looks like it was radically re-worked to make it
a very fast cursive hand (I'm sure there are different opinions on this, and more nuance).

Today we're evolving type-ahead guessing systems that are pretty good - I use them a lot. They take
some getting used to and strategy in their own right.

[Raine]

119. Me too

I hate to have to fill out a form with printing, its so slow.

[dhol82]

136. Interesting. When pressed for time I start out in cursive and transition quickly to my

version of printing.
Works for me.

[dae]

57. I hope so, my grandchildren aren't shown cursive till their sophmore year in H.S.

That’s a little late to introduce it for practical use.

[Mariana]

109. You could buy them a book so they can learn it on their own

if they wish to do so.

[dae]

134. I saw this in an earlier post, Get off my lawn! And I'm not

with you.

[dlk]

70. Cursive Writing is Good for the Brain in Ways that Printing and Keyboarding Are Not

As unpleasant as cursive writing may be for some, learning and writing in cursive strengthens the neural connections in our brains. It increases the connections between the auditory and language centers of our brains by teaching students how to integrate fine motor skills and visual processing. They learn functional specialization which is increasing the efficiency of the brain. There is even evidence that writing in cursive can ease symptoms of dyslexia by improving these connections.

In addition to supporting brain development, consider if students aren't ever taught cursive writing, where do they learn to sign their name? They would also miss out on the possibility of reading many historical documents, such as the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution.

Who's not in favor of developing and strengthening students' neural connections? I'm glad to see cursive writing making a comeback in the classroom.

[AndJusticeForSome]

84. Exactly.

Couldn't agree more.

For me, cursive is like skating on a smooth surface. Your thoughts can flow quickly from your mind to your paper.

Printing is like skating on a bumpy or rocky surface. Thoughts get interrupted and you have to slow your thinking to the pace of your pen.

Of course, typing is even faster, especially if you know touch typing.

It's also like the difference communicating in your native tongue vs. in a language you are learning--you just aren't as fluent. Or fluid. Flowing. Speed, smooth.

Our brains, our neural connections, mirror that experience.

[PatSeg]

162. I like your skating analogy

That is how it feels to me.

[EffieBlack]

174. Me, too

I always write letters and take notes in cursive - I can't imagine using block print for that. It would break my flow of thought.

[PatSeg]

177. Yes, it is the "flow" I think

I miss when writing block print. Also block print is more likely to cramp my hand.

[Tarc]

71. Last time I was required to write in cursive for homework was in the 5th grade

Being left-handed, cursive was particularly burdensome, as we more "push" the words rather than "pull" them, as I recall one teacher saying. The classes got graded as a whole on penmanship, I recall something with bronze, silver, and gold stickers affixed in every classroom.

I would routinely drag our class down, usually by just enough to cost us a color rank, so this was a source of much ridiculing.

So, needless to say, cursive is not something i look back on fondly. Let it die in a fire.

[Codeine]

76. Yeah, now that I think about it

everything about the flow and structure of cursive lettering is built around right-handedness. I guess all left-to-right lettering is, but the structure of cursive would seem more extreme than most in that situation.

[elocs]

107. I was in 5th grade when for a punishment I had to write some line a 100 times

like Bart Simpson. That pretty much destroyed my penmanship.

In my time the teachers would try and convert leftys to use their right hand.

[Tarc]

170. I was a few years after that era, thankfully

An older, left-handed cousin wasn't so lucky. He told tales of knuckles rapped with a ruler by the nuns.

[AndJusticeForSome]

73. How does someone learn to sign their name without knowing cursive?

I thought that signatures are always written in cursive.

Has that changed?

[ret5hd]

77. Signed, X

[BamaRefugee]

80. MAGA means making an "X" on anything can be your signature, just like yer Great Grandaddy done did!

[Codeine]

85. A signature can be printed.

Most people use a cursive style, but one could just as easily print or just make some goofy scribbles. I collect a lot of signatures at work and they run quite the comical gamut.

Many of my Syrian customers aren’t well-versed enough in our alphabet to sign that way but for whatever reason are also hesitant to use Arabic script. Usually they tend to go with a sort of single big loop and a little squiggle — works for me.

The era of the signature is coming to a close, however. I imagine my kids will affix most documents with a digital thumbprint or just facial recognition software like the new iPhones use for security. Harder to forge and won’t suffer from being inconsistent, which is common for a lot of people.

[AndJusticeForSome]

86. Now think about the problems with absentee ballots

Can't help but wonder if there's any connection.

[Codeine]

92. I don't vote absentee in part

because I have no idea how I signed my voter registration form. My signature changes over time; in the short term it seems very consistent but over a period of years it definitely evolves.

[AndJusticeForSome]

95. I do, and I wondered about that myself this year

I almost contacted our Registrar to verify, but in the end didn't. I think I'm fairly consistent with the first capital letter, at least.

But thousands of ballots were discarded for this very reason. So, it's a real issue I think.

[Mariana]

110. You thought wrong. nt.

[obamanut2012]

140. There is no legal need for a signature to be in cursive

It can be an X, it cam be printed, it can be anything.

[James48]

78. My learning

Cursive was writing 100 times on the blackboard-

“I will not throw snowballs in class.
I will not throw snowballs in class


I
I
I
Will
Will
Will
Not
Not
Not

[emmadoggy]

82. Proud Mom Brag:

My daughter was the 2012 Zaner-Bloser National Handwriting Contest 4th Grade Grand National Champion!!

I'm a proponent of teaching cursive in schools. But it is fading away. Even in our school, where it IS taught, the teachers don't require the kids to use it beyond the actual cursive lessons, so they never really become that proficient at it, and many lose it in the years after their initial learning of it. Cursive has value and I think our kids are losing something without it.

[phleshdef]

94. Let it die the death it deserves. Waste of time.

I learned it and stopped using it the moment teachers stopped requiring me to use it. It belongs in art class at best. This is just more baby boomers trying to force their way on everyone else.

[DavidDvorkin]

96. Agreed

I don't think it's just Boomers, though. I've heard these arguments from younger people, too. And I'm sure I'm not the only old person who wants to see cursive fade away.

[Mariana]

113. Yes, let it be a specialized skill.

People who read old documents for work or for their hobbies need to know how to read cursive. No one else does.

[Nasruddin]

121. Babyboomers! Hah!

Merovingian, that's where it's at:

Perfect script. Totally illegible.

They were pretty good at forcing their way on others, too. Their alternative was harsh.

BTW, when the revolution comes, you'll be first up against the wall. However, because my
eyesight is so bad now, you're going to be standing there a long, long time. You might want
to bring a magazine, if you know what that is.

[marybourg]

131. Oh, did they invent *that* too?

[roamer65]

185. ..

Time would be better spent on teaching kids to legibly print.

[BigmanPigman]

98. I taught Elementary School and when

I had 6th Grade I had them write both printing and cursive for Spelling tests. That way I could grade them easier since their cursive was still developing. When I taught First Grade the kids couldn't wait to learn cursive. I had High School helpers and I could never even read their printing and none of them remembered cursive. They all wrote in a strange style that is hard to describe. I know that they learned it from each other after they left the lower grades.

I am a fan of teaching cursive. It is necessary to read anything from before 1960.

[yortsed snacilbuper]

105. The ink tasted lousy!

[elocs]

102. Maybe 20 years ago at a job I was about to start for a security screen

I had to write the alphabet, both upper and lower case.
I hadn't used cursive in decades so I had no idea about how some of the uppercase letters were written such as a 'Q' or 'Z'.
The only cursive I use today is my signature.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

111. Kids need to learn cursive if for no other reason than to be able to read it.

My mother, who was born in 1916, was taught cursive in first grade, and didn't actually learn to print until she was in nursing school at age 19. She was so fascinated by printing that every after her writing was more of a linked printing than either block print or true cursive.

For reasons I don't understand, it's my observation that many Mexicans will have a very elaborate signatures. I live in Santa Fe and when I worked outpatient registration I saw it a lot.

[Mariana]

171. Once upon a time, there was such a thing as a professional scribe.

They would read or write documents for people who either couldn't do it themselves or didn't want to. Some people will always be able to read and write cursive. There really isn't any need for everyone to be able to do it.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

176. You are talking about a VERY long time ago, when not everyone was literate.

Since in our culture everyone (or as close to everyone as matters) is literate, and since reading isn't restricted to a minority, I would still argue that being able to read cursive is crucial. Being able to write in cursive is a completely different argument.

My two sons were born four years apart. The first in December, 1982, the second in March 1987. Older son learned to read and write and do cursive in a manner similar to mine. The younger one learned to read and write on schedule, but cursive wasn't as well taught. I remember that when he was a young adult he did not have a cursive signature and did not understand the need for it.

I do know that things change, and that what one generation values the next generation might well say, "What the fuck?".

But I still contend that the ability to read cursive remains important, even if writing in cursive is lost.

[Mariana]

178. The thing is, if you already know how to read

then learning to read cursive shouldn't be hard at all. But for those who just can't be bothered to do that, and who want to know the content of a some handwritten document, why not seek out and pay someone to read it for them?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

184. Perhaps. I recall reading that Charlemagne learned to read but not to write.

Which is an interesting light on what we're discussing.

As you've pointed out, in the future someone might easily pay someone to read a hand written document for them. But as time passes, fewer and fewer will be able to read those documents. At some point they will be lost from all understanding. And that's what I worry about.

[Mariana]

197. Well, it seems very unlikely it will be lost altogether.

There have been a few samples of ancient writing systems discovered that no one can decipher at all, but only a few.

People learn what they need to learn for their jobs or their hobbies. I had to learn to read schematics to do electronics. I knit and crochet, so I had to learn to read the patterns for that. No one taught me those things in elementary school, and there's no reason for everyone to know them. Similarly, anyone who wants to read old handwritten documents because their job or their hobby requires them to do so had better learn to read cursive.

[Lars39]

191. A type of scribe still exists in the medical field

I went to a very busy ophthalmologist once and he had a scribe with him entering all the information from the exam. Very efficient.

[JCMach1]

112. Ummm, no thanks... only thing I ever failed in elementary

[lunamagica]

115. I learned cursive in the second grade, By the third grade all of our assignments

Were required to be written in cursive. I didn't mind. Actually, I thought it was fun.

[Raine]

116. I love cursive

I'm glad they're bringing it back, should never have done away with it. Cursive writing is distinctive, individualistic and a much faster way to write then printing out letters.

[obamanut2012]

142. It is not coming back, except maybe in an art class

Or as something "fun" or a snowy day.

As it should be. We don;t write with quills anymore, which is why it was invented. Not even fountain pens. I am an old, and soooo much time was wasted on this in class. Waste of time.

[Owl]

169. Yes. And I love cursive also.

[blogslut]

117. I vaguely recall being allowed to write in back-handed cursive because I was a lefty.

When I discovered I could tilt my paper in order to avoid the hand cramping and ink smearing, my handwriting started to lean more to the right. Eventually I developed my own style of block-letter/cursive.

I don't hate the idea of requiring kids to learn cursive. Still, I'd much rather they were required to take art classes.

[Mariana]

120. My handwriting always slanted to the left and still does.

It was and still is neat and legible, but that wasn't good enough, oh no. It had to slant to the right or it was WRONG. Fuck cursive. I letter much faster anyway.

[BlueStater]

128. It should be optional to learn, not required.

It's not like it's necessary to get through life, especially since writing by use of a pencil is itself becoming sort of obsolete.

They taught it when I was in school and I just never took to it.

[obamanut2012]

143. +1

[wishstar]

130. Deciphering cursive has been essential for my genealogical research of old records

Being able to read cursive is essential for figuring out records such as censuses, immigrant ship manifestos and Italian archives that can be viewed online but deciphered only by someone who has cursive familiarity. Many old records have either not been converted at all to standard print for internet or else converted very inaccurately from original handwritten records.

[LeftInTX]

137. You're right

Heck...there are very few people who can decipher old Turkish. (Turkish in Arabic script)

[PatSeg]

159. Yes

Can you imagine trying to read the federal censuses? There is a lot of data on them that is not converted into print.

[The Genealogist]

168. Not to mention family documents

Old letters, family bible entries, etc. Transcription is often poor on documents that have been transcribed.

[marlakay]

141. Question? How are they teaching kids

To sign their name? You still need that for all ID and documents.

[Codeine]

150. As discussed above,

1) even without cursive instruction a child can be taught to write a signature,

2) it’s perfectly legal to have a printed signature, or a scribble, or a symbol,

3) signatures are going the way of the dodo — they will rapidly be phased out and replaced with digital thumbprints, retinal scans, or facial recognition software.

[Mariana]

161. Yes, they need to have signature.

It has never been a requirement that a signature has to be one's name written in cursive.

[Solly Mack]

147. :)

[Paula Sims]

149. Good - should be required for many reasons

1. Micro-motor functions of the hand translates to neuron synopses in the brain. Enhances many other micro-motor functions
2. Allows for better absorption of materials when learning and writing
3. It looks nicer (ok, that last one is for me)

But it doesn't have to be Spencerian or Palmer - even italic (Getty-Dubay) is fine. People need to understand that typing, although easier, does have its place as does handwriting. You can't carry a computer all over the place but pen/pencil & paper - always wifi compatible.

[Codeine]

151. "You can't carry a computer all over the place"

I’ve literally carried a computer everywhere I’ve gone for a decade now. Most people don’t go anywhere without a smartphone equipped with more computing power than the entire Apollo program in their pocket.

[Codeine]

153. If only kids had some other way to develop fine motor skills. . .

Your second point is often asserted but has dubious factual basis;

http://m.nautil.us/issue/40/learning/cursive-handwriting-and-other-education-myths

[PatSeg]

158. And pens and pencils

don't need batteries!

[Guilded Lilly]

152. I certainly hope so! It is unique to each individual.

[Codeine]

154. As is printing. nt

[Mariana]

179. Sure, that's why they always marked off

for handwriting that didn't exactly conform to the shapes in the book. My writing tends to slant to the left and did from the beginning (I'm right handed). It was neat and legible and my penmanship grades sucked because that wasn't good enough. There weren't any allowances made for uniqueness and individuality.

My grandparents and a bunch of aunts and uncles and cousins all lived in the same town and went to the same schools over a 20 year period. Their handwriting is identical. I guess their teachers didn't think much of uniqueness and individuality, either.

[DFW]

164. Literacy? Making people able to sign their names?

In the age of Trump, this is equivalent to sacrilege!

What will they demand next, people being able to add five plus five before the age of sixteen?

[Blue_true]

166. I had to learn both in school. Block writing 1-3, cursive 4-6.

I think that both expand kids minds by helping them develop there spatial awareness and creativity.

[EllieBC]

172. In our difficult it's up to the teacher if they want to teach it.

My daughter’s teacher this year is teaching it.

If she hadn’t I would have taught it to her at home.

[SoCalDem]

173. Back when I learned it , we still used these

and my desk looked like this

[snort]

182. Cursive flows and requires less lifting of the pen.

It was faster when writing was manual.

[Iggo]

183. I love cursive. (n/t)

[roamer65]

187. My writing is a hybrid of printing and cursive.

Also with some drafting influence mixed into it.

[leftyladyfrommo]

190. So is mine. Printing takes too long. nt

[Lars39]

192. The teachers that taught me cursive

tied it to documents we needed to know how to read, like the Constitution of the United States and the Preamble to the Constitution.

[Codeine]

194. I dream of a future when some enterprising person

produces print copies of these exalted documents.

[Lars39]

195. Yeah, my teachers had blue hair, but that reading exercise stuck with me.

[Sunsky]

193. I hope not

I never liked cursive even though I have very good penmanship. I prefer my beautiful non cursive/print writing. I had to teach my daughter who is in elementary school, and I'm sure I complained more than she did. In fact she loved it.

[backscatter712]

202. The practical part is that if you're separated from your gadgets...

I don't know about you, but when I'm practiced up, I can write much faster in cursive than in block-print.

Something about the letters being put together so you don't have to lift your pen from the paper most of the time. Makes the writing movements flow better.

Now we use our gadgets. Typing is much faster than writing.

[honest.abe]

210. My mother used to write me beautiful cursive letters.

I did sometimes find it hard to read but it was like artwork. I miss those letters.

[3catwoman3]

211. I have at least a dozen letters written by one of my great...

...grandfathers, from my dad's side, who was a Union soldier during the Civil War. Sent to his mother. Some describe battles, or guarding Rebel soldiers, and others are more mundane. What a loss of family history it would have been if I could not have read those.

It was a challenge, because not only has the ink on the pages faded, the cursive of the time was very loopy and fanciful, which can be difficult to decipher.

[Mariana]

212. If you hadn't learned to read cursive as a child

and hadn't taught yourself to read it outside of school, those letters would have just gone unread? You would never have bothered to find someone who could read those letters for you? Seriously?

"What a loss of family history it would have been if I could not have read those."

[3catwoman3]

213. I most certainly would have...

...found a way to have them read if I could not do it myself.

I made photocopies of each one, darkened the copies, and then traced over the writing with a pencil to make it even darker. Despite this effort, there were still some words I could not make out, even though I became more familiar with my great grandfather’s hand. I typed up transcripts of each of the missives. I spent hours and hours at it. It gave me a sense of connection to this relative I never knew

I think there still would have something lost had I needed someone to “translate’” for me - not as intimate an experience.

Some people are not as curious about their ancestors, nor as willing to expend effort on something that is not easy.

A noted in some of the posts above, there are kids right now who cannot read birthday cards from their grandparents. Who knows if they or their parents care enough to do anything to fix that.