Possibly momentous ruling from the EU high court

[DFW]

I didn't even know that the question had been brought before them, but they just ruled that Britain can unilaterally cancel its departure from the European Union if it so desires.

Since a majority of Britain almost certainly so desires, they should hold that referendum like tomorrow! End this craziness. Who cares if Putin and Farage are pissed off?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/eu-high-court-says-britain-can-unilaterally-reverse-brexit-boosting-pro-europe-campaigners/2018/12/10/7e023826-fc62-11e8-ba87-8c7facdf6739_story.html?utm_term=.bfba61223e5c

[Wounded Bear]

1. No shit. Do over time!

[DFW]

2. Vladimir Vladimirovitch must be fuming

Krapski! I forgot about that possibility. Well, it ALMOST worked. Now, on to France........

[blm]

3. Thanks, DFW. Putin, Farage, Bannon, and Trump can all just go

Fvck themselves....

gently....

......with a chainsaw.

[DFW]

5. Second the motion

And approve of the suggested power tool................

[secondwind]

26. LOL

[DemocracyMouse]

41. I know you are all having a yuck about chainsaws, but don't we become the enemy with this imagery?

[orangecrush]

51. Nope.

[NBachers]

52. *snort*chortle*guffaw*

[DemocracyMouse]

54. You don't care?

[orangecrush]

50. Third!

[luvtheGWN]

20. Has anyone been watching Madam Secretary?

The show is doing an excellent job of bringing real life political concerns into the fictional series. Last night it was about bringing Serbia and Kosovo into NATO and how a Russian troll farm was using social media to cause BIG trouble in trying to prevent it. Putin wants desperately to break up both NATO and the European Union, just as badly as he wants the US to lose its super power status.

Putin is losing, and it remains to be seen what his final desperate act(s) will be. Getting rid of his enemies, one by one, doesn't seem to be working, and the rest of the world knows what's up with him.

[riverbendviewgal]

21. Love the show

Mdme Secretary is Hilary. I find many episodes have similarities of real issues.

[blm]

23. You would think the entire left would be wise to his maneuvering by now, yet,

some are still blind to it and have even become useful idiots to Putin AND Trump.

[erronis]

27. And get it on tape, just like at the Saudi Arabian consulate.

Trump didn't want to hear/watch the murder of Kashoggi that his SIL's BFF MbS ordered. Maybe he can watch his partners-in-crime instead.

[unc70]

4. May postponed BREXIT vote

Facing crushing defeat. A revote seems the sane option, but ...

[DFW]

6. I know, I know

When does sanity ever come into it?

[triron]

32. Could these 2 events be related?

[Cirque du So-What]

7. Here's hoping...

sanity prevails & Brexit is relegated to the dustbin of histoty.

[Turbineguy]

8. The Russians wanted Brexit

We gave them Trump as an added bonus.

[Hortensis]

9. This could reset options for those who'd become resigned.

I've also heard that what will be continue to be lost through departure is coming home to more people.

[barbtries]

10. best case:

they hold another referendum and the vote is to stay. A Brit on twitter told me the parliament could actually reverse the decision to leave as well. i think that unlikely, but don't know.

[unblock]

11. i don't know enough about the politics in the uk, but i gotta think that

if some m.p. went on a major offensive to promote a national re-referendum on brexit, that not only would "remain" win this time, but also that the mp that championed it would have the inside track to being the next prime minister....

[bronxiteforever]

12. Yet pro Brexit Jeremy Corbin wooing DUP

Jeremy Corbyn has reached out to the DUP and said that Labour is "ready to step in and negotiate seriously" to find an alternative Brexit deal with the EU.

In an exclusive interview with Sky News, the Labour Party leader said the DUP "dislike the backstop for very good and sensible reasons" and that "absolutely" Labour's version of Brexit can work for the Northern Ireland party and the people of the province.

https://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-were-ready-to-step-in-and-negotiate-with-eu-11574338


Labour needs a remain leader but they are stuck with Corbyn. I am not a fan for multiple reasons. It just is the worst of times when the left is stuck with Corbyn and “Bogus Johnson” is waiting in the Tory camp for the May collapse. There needs to be a real People’s Vote now and Labour needs to find a leader who can argue that point.

[DFW]

16. Agreed. The UK needs new leadership at both ends of the spectrum. n/t

[bronxiteforever]

18. +1!

[muriel_volestrangler]

44. No, Corbyn is right that his solutions do work OK for the fundamental wish of the DUP

which is for there to be no difference between Northern Ireland's status and the rest of the UK. Basically, Corbyn is saying the whole of the UK will agree to rules that won't require a hard border between the Republic and NI, while the 'backstop' the DUP hate has nebulous 'differences' between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Now, the DUP would also like to take part in the UKIP/Tory "we suspect all immigrants" nonsense, but that just doesn't work with the Good Friday Agreement. And the people of Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU anyway, so the DUP ought to be OK with a UK still closely tied to the EU.

If the DUP was consistent to its core beliefs, it could be OK with the Labour plan. It would like to have its cake and eat it, however. As long as Corbyn doesn't change policy to accommodate them, it's reasonable for him to try and persuade them the Labour plan is better for Northern Ireland.

[bronxiteforever]

46. Interesting points! Based on your comment I can

See why Corbyn would try. My 2 cents are that my issue with him has been his pro Brexit stance from the very beginning. I don’t see how labour got saddled with him in the first place. I think the average Labour constituency would vote remain. The People’s vote is picking up momentum and support and Labour should be leading that charge.

The DUP is a hideous party that still carries Ian Paisley’s hellish paramilitary stench. Their lack of rational thought is illustrated by their anti science beliefs. They are untrustworthy zealots and their involvement in this process seems to only promote further chaos.

The EU will never abandon Irish Republic and , like you said, this whole matter comes down to the backstop (that the Commons doesn’t even understand). Ultimately there should be another vote. Why would Labour want anything to disrupt the peaceful end of the civil war in Northern Ireland which was made possible with the Good Friday accords? I think it is totally possible that the troubles could flair again and history repeat itself. 25 years on and human nature is that people don’t know what they have got until they lose it.

I hope the UK gets another vote and in the end, Nigel Farage goes to jail with Cheeto!

[KPN]

13. Yay! Exit Brexit!

[grantcart]

15. +1

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

48. So that'd be a Brexexit?

Or is that a Brexexexit?

[KPN]

57. I like Brexexexit!

[yardwork]

14. EU is throwing Britain a lifeline.

[DFW]

17. They sure did!

Now it remains to be seen if they take or choose to drown instead.

[TheBlackAdder]

19. Now, what ever the UK does, they can't blame the EU for getting in the way. It's UK's ball now.

.

They vote to stay in, they'll eventually lose Scotland too.

.

[erronis]

29. And I think both the EU and Britain/UK will be stronger for surviving the interference

Putin and others may have overplayed their hand a bit. It will be harder next time - I hope.

[gademocrat7]

22. Good!

[dlk]

24. The Russians Duped the Brits (as Well as Americans)

That’s a very difficult thing for some to admit.

[brush]

25. Putin is the actual evil genius.

He foisted trump onto us, Brexit onto the Brits, and is working on France by infiltrating the yellow vests with his instigators.

Our system seems to be on a path to finally flush out trump, hope the Brits do the same to Brexit.

The situation in France, while of concern, doesn't seem as dire as what happened here and in the UK.

[erronis]

30. Yup.

Still plenty of other places for the USSR to meddle in. But they've been warned.

Now, about those Chinese. And the US interference. Can we talk about Israel here?

[brush]

33. I agree, China is a real problem but we need a real president to tackle it...

not the imposter we have now.

Criticizing Israel here is like walking on egg shells as too many equate it with anti-Semitism

[DFW]

28. Nobody wants to admit they've been played for suckers

But in this case, it would be wiser just to say, OK, that joke was on us. Next order of business, please.

[triron]

31. Now our high court should invalidate the last general election.

I know--won't happen.

[brush]

34. Yep, the repugs have stacked SCOTUS with extreme right wingers...

and are continuing to do the same with the lower courts.

We'll finally get rid of trump but the damage he and turtleman have done will be with us for years.

[DFW]

35. Trouble is, our highest court could only do so on constitutional grounds

There is no clause in the constitution for rectifying an election whose results were manipulated from the outside.

We can't really fault James Madison for not foreseeing facebook irregularities. We CAN fault our courts for refusing to deal with the issue of remedying a manipulated election, though it is a sticky question, and I can understand that any judge might want to pass it on like a hot potato. If we get this election legally annulled for legitimate reasons before an honest judge, great. But who's to say that next time, the Republicans don't find themselves a crooked judge (shouldn't be hard after Trump installed so many of them), and attempt to annul the election of every Democratic president from here on in?

[k8conant]

53. Why would we want them to do that?

Just invalidate the 2016 presidential election.

[Hekate]

36. This is certainly excellent news

[LisaM]

37. That would be great.

This dogged persistence in going forward with something most people in Great Britain clearly don't want floors me.

[DFW]

38. France and Belgium regularly pass measures that contradict European Law

Here the EU high court is throwing the UK a real bone by essentially saying, OK, you fucked up, but we'll let you off the hook this time.

It would be madness if they didn't jump at the chance.

Of course when has madness ever been an obstacle to a government doing something stupid? Let's hope a majority in Parliament realizes the golden ticket they've been offered here, and decides to use it.

[Thyla]

39. I guess they wanted it in writing.

This goes along with what the EU have stated the whole time so not really new and considering the UK has no intention of revoking article 50 it is all somewhat hypothetical.

It does however offer a clear direction out should the people choose it in a 2nd referendum, which at this point is hypothetical as well.

[DFW]

40. Maybe they will take another look at the chance, now that it's official

There is still time, but only if the government really wants to give the people a say in the matter.

[Thyla]

42. I think they have backed themselves into such a tight corner

That they will seriously have to look into it but at the moment it seems like they would prefer to fall on the sword of a no deal Brexit.
I don't think May will survive much longer so it will be up to her replacement to get that through and that will depend on who that replacement is.

[muriel_volestrangler]

45. No, this is a court ruling, not "what the EU have stated the whole time"

The EU leaders don't get to decide this at all.

I agree it is hypothetical at the moment, since the Tories don't want to revoke Article 50. If May cannot get anything passed in parliament, there might be a vote of no confidence, and those wanting a second referendum would then have a case for Labour to put it in their election manifesto.

[malaise]

43. May's best way out of this mess

But she's owned the the RWs

[BigmanPigman]

47. If they get to do a do-over, can we have that chance too?

I vote that we re-do the entire 2016 election, from Federal down to local. It was illegitimate (and that goes for all the judges, justices, laws, executive orders, etc since 2016).

[lindysalsagal]

49. Good news.

[roamer65]

55. Britain needs to fullly join the EU.

Embrace all of it, including the Euro.

Revoke the Article 50 declaration and join the Eurozone.

[Denzil_DC]

56. This has been brewing for a while, just under the radar for some in the UK, not just in the USA.

The case was brought by a collaboration between English QC Jolyon Maugham and some Scottish politicians before a Scottish court (we have our own legal system up here) because the yellow media like the Daily Mail in England would have gone apeshit calling the judges "enemies of the people" etc. etc. all over again, and nobody needs that clouding the water. It was eventually referred to the ECJ, and an advisory opinion released a week or two ago was borne out by this judgment. It's just confirming what was already strongly suspected, as Lord Kerr, who drafted Article 50, has always insisted unilateral withdrawal of it was an option.

It doesn't really suit the EU itself - its line has been that Article 50 can be withdrawn only with the consent of the 27, not least because it doesn't want any other member states going through the motions of leaving in future as a bargaining ploy without any penalties attached. I expect the future Article 50 process to be reviewed to take account of this development at some point.

The decision does at least cut away one excuse from the Brexiters - it's mindboggling that exploration of all the options wasn't carried out by the UK government and civil service - but I'm afraid it's unlikely to change anything. It just confirms that sticking by Article 50 is a political decision, not a legal one.

May seems intent on running out the clock on Brexit until the end of next March and having the UK leave with no deal (perhaps not coincidentally, that might protect some of the UK's major dark money interests from some of the ramifications of the EU's crackdown on tax evasion and moneylaundering), and all this running around in pursuit of impossible incoherent deals is probably just for show. Little else makes sense of the cack-handed way this whole debacle has been dealt with, though sheer incompetence can't be ruled out as a factor.

A while back, Parliament granted the government a wide range of autocratic powers ("Henry VIII clauses" ), supposedly to smooth the transition period when a lot of legislation might need to be changed and passed very quickly without time for full parliamentary scrutiny, and soon that's going to come home to roost, under another prime minister if not May. The refusal - so far, at least - to allow MPs to vote on May's deal when it looks certain it would be defeated is just the beginning.

At the moment, Labour's leadership seems content to see all this happen while making half-hearted noises of opposition, and is in no hurry to attempt a no confidence motion that might trigger an election before then - it's very unlikely they'd have the numbers anyway, the Tories would likely circle the wagons (for fear of losing their seats), the DUP kingmakers probably wouldn't want to deal with Corbyn, not least because of his past support for Sinn Fein and dealings with the IRA, nor a Labour government under anyone else, and the opinion polls aren't favourable despite the governmental mess.

Corbyn's idea seems to be to wait till Brexit comes about, then go for an election, after which we're all set for a spot of disaster socialism.

I'm sure that will work out well.

[DFW]

58. No wonder I hadn't heard of it

I have no contacts in Scotland at all, never even been there.

Leaving with no deal is worse than leaving with a decent deal which is still worse than canceling the whole Brexit. The EU crackdown on money laundering is sporadic and haphazard at best, a cruel joke at worst. In France and, especially, Belgium, in order to let the big boys get away free, they have brigades of corrupt financial police going around accusing small shops and people who have nothing to do with money laundering of...money laundering. They concoct fictitious accusations, confiscate whatever objects of value they can, steal what they can for themselves, and then return what they choose to their victims after five or ten years. This way, they show the newspapers and their corrupt judges that they are "active," while the big money launderers are left to get away with no scrutiny at all, unless they get fingered by accident from outside (USA, Asia, etc.). I'm sure that the biggest dark money in the UK is so well insulated that it will be left to operate in peace just as it is in France and Belgium.

It figures that when the EU offers the UK the proverbial get-out-of-jail-free card, that the government declines the offer. The preferences of the population of the UK don't appear to interest anyone. I agree fully with your assessment of Corbyn, hoped that Labour would have come up with someone more pragmatic at this point, but I guess they are under no greater obligation to adopt common sense than the Tories.

[Denzil_DC]

59. I'll have to take your word about what you say happened in the past.

But new EU legislation - the 5th Anti-Money Laundering Directive - is coming into force early next year, "coincidentally" at precisely the time when the UK is due to leave. Its measures include:

Public registers of company owners in every member state.
Access to the names of the beneficiaries of trusts for law enforcement agencies and those with a “legitimate interest”, including investigative journalists and NGOs.
A cross-border database of company and trust owners, overseen by the European commission.
Automatic access to the names of bank account holders for national financial intelligence units.

Even as it is, in the last year, Russian oligarchs living in luxury in Spain who long assumed they were immune have been arrested.

The UK government's current position is that it will adopt these measures, but that was on the understanding that there would be a lengthy Brexit transition period, not a no deal crash-out.

To reiterate: the EU didn't offer the UK this "get out of jail free card". The ECJ made a decision. The EU would have preferred the decision to go the other way.

[DFW]

60. I saw it first hand and know some people involved on both ends

It stinks/stank. I'm not talking about big money laundering operations. I'm talking about small businesses that were used as distractions because the authorities didn't want to (or were scared to) attack the powerful guys, but wanted to appear active. Mom and pop diamond shops in Antwerp don't launder billions of euros. Russians with private armies do, and some of them shoot back when offended. I would dare to hazard a guess that the ones arrested in Spain were not ones that had their private guns guarding them, just a few wealthy guys with private jets on call at the Málaga airport. Actually, Spain, a country I have lived in and still visit on a regular basis, seems less corrupt than its neighbor to the north, and far less so than the one immediately north of that.

As for the measures listed, similar regulations are already in place to some degree. I know I have to bother the accounting department of my outfit in Dallas to furnish all sorts of information they can't believe every time someone new even gives us his business card. We have to send balance sheets, articles of incorporation, copies of passports of the owners, and a LOT of etc. We are waiting for the next round, when they want DNA samples as well as our first-born. Of course, the big bad guys are well ahead of all this, and most of them will continue to enjoy their bought immunity. While supposed anti-fraud brigades are chasing down and interrogating everyone still in possession of a €500 banknote, the real professionals are tapping away at their laptops, moving unimaginable sums around the world with no fear of interference.

I get that it was the ECJ that handed down the decision, where the individual governments were undoubtedly against letting the UK off so lightly, not that the UK has yet shown any indication of wanting to take advantage of their good fortune. I still think it would be better for all concerned if the UK jumped at the chance. The EU and the ECJ can always adopt rules on short notice to prevent this happening again, just in case Latvia threatens to bolt if the EU won't build them a new intercontinental airport with funds provided by German, Austrian and Dutch taxpayers--a group to which I lamentably now belong.