Trump succeeded in further dividing Democrats and Republicans

[kentuck]

Which appears to be his goal.

Democrats believe Nancy and Chuck put him in his place.

Republicans believe he stood up for the wall and against illegal immigration.

The entire charade was a set-up for his 2020 campaign.

Divide and conquer is his theory.

We can look for Chuck and Nancy to be pilloried and demonized even more by the right.

It was a win for nobody.

[empedocles]

1. traitortrump may have shorter term objectives in dividing further

[kentuck]

2. Yes, he is looking for a major distraction.

If the government is shut down, he will get it.

[empedocles]

4. Possibly some things even more distracting

[rampartc]

3. +1

the trump cult is already hailing their great leader's stable geniys in putting that uppity woman in her place. new nicknames in the tweeter in chief's morning outburst i'm sure.

[oberliner]

5. Democrats and Republicans were already divided

[Buckeyeblue]

6. I'm mixed about the whole thing

On one hand, I'm glad they stood up to 45 and to some extent painted him into a corner.

On the other hand, it's frustrating that the country can't have a reasonable debate about illegal immigration. And 45's continual over-simplification about it shows he either doesn't want a reasonable debate or he is incapable of it. He continues to dehumanize anyone crossing the boarder as criminal or diseased (a new one).

In my opinion, the only reason this is an issue is because he is making it an issue. We could fix this in a humane way--and without a wall--very quickly. But then 45 loses his wedge issue.

I'm afraid with all the criminal stuff about him and his campaign coming out, he will double down on the hateful stuff. Look for ICE to get more aggressive--if that's possible.

[kentuck]

7. Basically...

his strategy is to keep his base together and to strengthen the division, because he believes the Republicans in the Senate would never desert him on an impeachment vote if they have to answer to the base.

He is in survival mode.

[Buckeyeblue]

13. I agree with you

What's interesting is who would the base align with if the Senate repugs voted to convict on an impeachment? A third party. Maybe once until they find out it would get them nowhere.

Everyone may be overstating the loyalty of the base. I think they'll go with whomever tells them what they want to hear.

[kentuck]

16. As long as 30-35% of the base are with Trump...

...it is doubtful that Senate Republicans would ever vote to convict. They feel that would be cutting their own throats.

[Buckeyeblue]

24. That number is always going to be 30-35%

Even W got that during his darkest days. But you're right, the Senate Republicans will hold steady--at least 34 of them will. That's

South Carolina
Georgia
Alabama (1)
Louisiana
Mississippi
Tennessee
Arkansas
Texas
Oklahoma
Florida
Kansas
Nebraska
North Dakota
South Dakota
Idaho
Missouri
Alaska (1)
West Virginia (probably both)

Some of the Republican Senators from split states may have to think about their vote. I'm just going off the top of my head, so there may be others.

[beachbum bob]

8. generally speaking, nothing trump says or does has much impact on the "divide"

democrats and republicans have some major differences on positions and trump has little effect on that except to highlight the differences. No "anti-science" republican will ever support any democratic position on climate change....same as no "pro-choice democrat" will ever support a republican "anti-abortion" position, EVER

[kentuck]

9. I disagree.

Everything Trump says or does has the impact of solidifying the division. That is the only card he has to save himself.

[beachbum bob]

17. trump's base is already solid and again nothing he says ot does will effect them on their

support of trump or his positions.

of course they are a minority of all americans and why they are so pissed. The majority of us call them out for what they are

[kentuck]

20. Trump's fear is that he will lose some of his base...

...and they are his only line of defense against impeachment. It is a continuing fear for him.

[Hortensis]

10. No one I've read or listened to shares your attitude, Kentuck.

Not even the conservatives, and reportedly congressional Republicans are newly worried that he's done them and him real damage.

Do you realize that Trump told the entire nation that he would shut down the federal government if he didn't get his wall? Proudly!

Since Trump chose to do this in front of the nation, Pelosi and Schumer were trying to maneuver Trump into falling into exactly this trap: of admitting the truth to the nation, including his base. Schumer was smiling at the carpet, nodding, yes..yes, YES!, yes, as Trump blustered and threatened, and fell. Mission accomplished.

Btw, do you realize how stupid most conservatives think a long-obsolete wall is? We're going to stop cutting Social Security checks and halt critical services, like Forest Service fire watchers and CDC
researchers as 11th Hour pointed out, because Trump wants a monument to himself and to 8th-century thinking?

[kentuck]

12. That assumes that his supporters did not already know who was shutting down the government.

He will lose none of them by his actions.

They understand that it is all politics.

The "wall" is his primary tool for division.

[Hortensis]

15. You're also forgetting the message of the midterms,

Kentuck. They ARE losing voters with every stupid action he takes and every proof of their corruption that comes out of congress. The Republicans have currently lost the suburbs and now only dominate in rural areas -- and they lost support there also.

If he shuts down the government, he and the Republicans will lose more support.

The giant battle for power in 2020 (and through to 2032) has been raging for some time. The midterms, in fact, were an extremely significant event in the battle that will culminate on November 3, 2020.

[kentuck]

18. He doesn't think long term.

He doesn't think beyond tonight's newscast.

[ProfessorGAC]

19. And He Got Pulverized In The Nightly Newscast

Not following your logic here, Kentuck.

[kentuck]

21. The more he is attacked ...

...the stronger is his defense by the base. He does not worry about a majority at this time. He worries about surviving.

If I see some polls in the next day or two that show his support has dropped considerably with his base or with Republicans in general, I will be willing to re-evaluate this opinion.

[ProfessorGAC]

25. I Think You Overestimate The Size of His Base

The approval rating contains some substantial fraction of folks that are only focused on their own money and day to day situation.

They're not fanatically attached, merely supportive because the economy doesn't suck (yet), they still have their job and it's not in imminent danger of going away (yet), and they haven't seen the actual report on the crimes because it's not out yet.

There are people out there who did vote for "it", (likely as much an irrational anti-HRC vote as anything else) that are now becoming less impressed.

When the shoes start to drop, i think we'll find the number over which you're concerned is much smaller than 38%

[rzemanfl]

28. I think the "base" includes people who fear Drumpf and his government

enough that they'd never say anything bad about it. Their opinions reflect what they think they should say, not what they believe and feel. My guess is they are meek folks in red (neck?) areas.

[ProfessorGAC]

29. We'll Have To Agree To Disagree About That

It's one thing to stay silent in hostile territory. It's another to tell a pollster one's opinion.

If the ok economy starts getting shaky, and jobs get threatened and inflation starts to decrease the value of a paycheck, a lot of those polled will start to change their tune.

Then, the base will be revealed as the ignorant, racist, and bigoted sheep they are. And the number will be much smaller than the supposed 40%

[rzemanfl]

32. Not if you don't trust the pollster not to report you.

Paranoia strikes deep. Buffalo Springfield.

[ProfessorGAC]

34. Steve Stills, I Believe

But even if you're right, then those people are already stealth PINO opponents. Even if the lie to the pollsters, this recent noise is not going to alter their opinion.

As to the tune, i'm pretty sure Stills wrote that, but i believe that whole album was credited to the band as writers, not individual guys.

[rzemanfl]

42. I agree, the number of people in the "base" is inflated.

Wikipedia agrees with you about "For What It's Worth."

[Hortensis]

23. :) So true.

I switched to Fox & Friends and missed their main coverage, but their chyron claims Democrats "backed tough border laws, now opposed" and shows Hillary discussing the need for a barrier somewhere on the border. Apparently they're temporarily setting aside the meme that we want America invaded by hoards of diseased criminals, the more the better. I've been wondering how that one's selling in the suburbs anyway.

[EleanorR]

33. But you said this was all a set-up for his 2020 run?

Last edited Wed Dec 12, 2018, 11:38 AM - Edit history (1)

You give him too much credit. He tried his tough negotiator routine on Pelosi and Schumer and failed miserably because he's just not very bright.

[kentuck]

38. A normal candidate with Trump's record would not even be considered.

But Trump is hiding behind his base to protect his position and himself and expects to be the nominee of the Republicans in 2020, I have no doubt. I do not think he will win, but I didn't think he would win in 2016 either.

He will lie, cheat, or steal to win. And he did.

Perhaps it comes natural to him but I have never seen anyone as capable of dividing the country as he.

[YessirAtsaFact]

11. If a shutdown happens Trump now owns it

I would call that a win for team blue.

[kentuck]

14. And if it stays shut down for a lengthy time?

Who will they blame?

And if Democrats decide to compromise in order to open the government, will they get credit or will they be blamed as "weak"?

In two or three weeks, we shall see.

[kydo]

22. This is exactly why putin installed individual #1 as potus

It's working great for putin. He could give two shits about orange man facing impeachment or jail. Works better for him. Divides us even more. Makes us less strong as a country. Less influence in the world. Which is what putin has wanted most of his time as leader of russia.

[get the red out]

26. I don't think they can be more demonized

by the right. The hatred for Dem leaders is maxed out when a MAGA sends a bunch of pipe bombs. He was wanting to capitalize on the hate for them with his base.

[underpants]

27. The middle and the uncommitted see him as a complete jackass now

Not that they didn't before but now there is actual reality TV footage. He got his tail kicked in the midterms because people turned out to vote against him. The grassroots got them there but they still had to go to the polls.

He looked like a moron AND was not unexpectedly complaining rude to Pelosi. THIS was the dropping off the ledge moment and he provided it.

Usually the Oval Office itself is a HUGH! home field advantage and intimidating, not with this Clustertrump and Elf on a Shelf.

[bdamomma]

30. it was a win for us

to show how this filthy POS doesn't listen and lives in his own delusional reality. Fuck him.

[apnu]

31. Its the only tool in the Republican tool box

Been that way since Reagan. They've been the divide and conquer party since 1980. Nobody surprised by this.

[ananda]

35. There aren't that many Reeps left..

That's a blessing anyway.

Of course, they are the really batshit mean
crazy people.

[LanternWaste]

36. Is there an objective measure on which you predicate your conclusions?

"Trump succeeded in further dividing..."

"It was a win for nobody..."

Or is this merely idle speculation?

[kentuck]

40. No more idle than speculation of a grand victory.

We shall see if Republicans begin to desert him or if they harden their positions?

Usually cheering on either side, in this political environment, will only strengthen the opposition, in my opinion.

[Oneironaut]

37. Poison the political atmosphere so badly that nobody pays attention to Trump's character.

He’s remarkably good at taking the focus off himself and his failures. He creates such a toxic atmosphere that everybody is forced into a tribalist mentality of “Ny side at all costs.” That way, he has a cult-like hold on his party.

[stopbush]

39. Methinks that a few DUers need to get over the fantasy that tRump

is always playing three-dimensional chess when it comes to his battles with Ds.

Ask yourself: what brilliant strategy did he employ to clobber the Ds in the 2018 midterms? How many House seats did Rethugs pick up in the House from tRump appealing to his base?

Perhaps you need to learn to recognize a victory when you see one, rather than overthinking things, as you are doing when it comes to the slapdown Nancy and Chuck delivered to Individual 1 yesterday.

[kentuck]

41. What do you define as a "victory"?

I do not think Trump has to win the next election to be successful at divisive politics. If he is the Republican nominee, he has been successful, even if he loses the election. The country will be no better for it.