Kirsten Gillibrand and the Al Franken Fury

[brooklynite]

The Atlantic:

George Soros is mad. Susie Tompkins Buell hasn’t forgiven her. Other Democratic mega-donors are still burning with anger over Al Franken, too. But Kirsten Gillibrand is doing just fine without them.

The New York senator, who’s expected to launch a presidential campaign soon, can’t go anywhere without hearing the noise about her decision—now more than a year ago—to call for Franken to go in a #MeToo scandal. But the numbers tell a different story: Gliding to another term in November, she put $17.5 million in the bank in the past two years, more than any other potential presidential contender in the Senate aside from Elizabeth Warren. Gillibrand is finishing the year with $10.5 million in the bank that can be transferred right into a 2020 run, only $2 million behind Warren. She raised $5.5 million in low-dollar donations, behind only Warren and Bernie Sanders.

...snip...

Gillibrand told me later that she’s “very surprised” this is still such an issue a year on. But she said it doesn’t have much to do with what she’s living day to day.

“For every one person who shares a concern with me, I have at least one person thanking me, and it tends to be young women who come up to me with tears in their eyes and say, ‘I can’t tell you how much it meant to me that you stood up and did the right thing,’” Gillibrand said. She added that around the time of the Brett Kavanaugh hearings, there were “a hundred” who came up to her to thank her at protest rallies.

[hlthe2b]

1. We shall see... I've yet to encounter anyone involved with 2016 CO caucuses that supports her

or sees her as a viable candidate for anything beyond her current Senate seat. Sure, that is only one state, we are not Minnesota, but we DO remember--intensely and not favorably. Most see her as a flagrant opportunist--whether that applies in general to politicians or not, she has the mantle.

So, she should hope others have a less intense memory or more open to her spin on Franken.

I think she is gravely mistaken if she thinks there will not be backlash from those who DO remember, should she decide to run for the presidency.

[allgood33]

97. She actually sounds more like GOP-lite.

[Celerity]

125. Ridiculous. She has the lowest Trump score in the entire Senate and was the only

Senator to have voted against every one of his nominations.

[kimbutgar]

2. She won't get my vote in the primary if she runs

I want Franken to run for President. No one can attack him when all the truth comes out against the orange maggot prevent, child molester freak pResident.

[PhrankT]

3. That's not what being stated in other circles. She ranks at the bottom & not only because of Franken

I have my own "unimpressed" opinion of her.

We have better.

[blue cat]

4. My response

Amy Klobuchar is a much better choice.

[OnDoutside]

19. Yes, much better.

[Charlotte Little]

27. Yup

I'm going to hold my tongue with respect to Gillibrand, but for certain, Klobucher gets my support and vote.

Gillibrand can go...sorry, I said I'd hold my tongue. Holding tongue.

[Control-Z]

43. I agree.

She would be a far better choice, in my opinion.

[oberliner]

64. Klobuchar voted with Trump over 30 percent of the time; Gillibrand less than 12 percent

[riversedge]

103. whow. Interesting to say the least. Thanks

[oberliner]

116. You're welcome

Here's the source and the full list:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/

[wildflower]

133. Thank you

[zeusdogmom]

5. Not a big fan of hers

If for some reason she actually got the nomination, I would probably vote for her but not with enthusiasm.

[Guppy]

6. Wait until she sees the Beto machine

fund raise. Her eyes will water.

[ProudLib72]

7. Why is it such a big deal that he was denied due process?

Come on, he was weighed in the court of public opinion, and the RW claims were supported by his own party.

[UpInArms]

16. Anyone with half of a functioning brain could ... and should ... have seen that was a set up

Seasoned political operative Roger Stone knew Democrat Senator Al Franken was about to get hit with damning sexual harassment allegations before the report broke Thursday.

According to the Daily Caller, Stone texted reporter Alex Pfeiffer about the scandal hours before it broke.

Daily Caller reports:


Famed Republican political operative Roger Stone knew that a news anchor would accuse Democratic Minnesota Sen. Al Franken of sexual assault.

“Let’s just say Sen. Franken’s time in the barrel is about to come,” Stone told The Daily Caller over text early Thursday morning, hours before Leeann Tweeden came out with her claims.

Stone, a longtime political adviser to President Trump, is known for his “dirty tricks.” He did not elaborate to TheDC how he knew Tweeden was going to come out with her claims.



Infowars producer Rob Dew says he predicted the scandal as well.

And now, Stone has been found guilty of spreading lies on infowars ...

Just call me ... still steaming mad

[JHB]

37. By what definition was Tweeden a "news anchor"?

[NewJeffCT]

42. If it was just Tweeden

I'd say that there is no way that Franken should have resigned.

However, 5 or 6 more women came forward afterwards, including one woman that is, or was, a Democratic activist.

[brush]

60. Oh, please. You mean the one who said he touched her love handle when she asked...

him to pose for a photo with her? (FYI: Love handles are not turn-ons, more like turn-offs.)

Or the one who claimed Franken said to her: "It's my right as a celebrity" when he allegedly tried to grope her? (Come on, that line would be cut out of the worse D-movie it's so unbelievable)

Oh, and let's not forget that the so-called accusers immediately stopped coming forward the minute he resigned. It was obviously a repug hit job, and the gullible but ambitious Gillibrand fell for it and threw her 2020 chances under the same bus she shoved Al Franken under.

[chelsea0011]

62. Amen.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

74. +1

[Dustlawyer]

108. +1!!!

[Trumpocalypse]

112. So all 7 women were republican operatives?

You have any proof of that? Please provide links.

[tonedevil]

126. That is pretty dishonest of you...

the post you are replying to says nothing about Republicans or operatives. Why must you lie about what has been stated? The threads are numbered we all see what you are doing.

[Trumpocalypse]

134. Read the thread

The poster I replied to said, It was obviously a repug hit job". For it to be that than all 8 women have to be Republican operatives.

The dishonest thing to do is to try to shut down discussion and questions that you don't like.

[brush]

130. Don't even try it. Do you have any proof they weren't?

And we'll never know will we because the Gilibrand-led group rushed to judgment and Frnken never had a hearing to determine that.

Were you also happy about that?

[Trumpocalypse]

135. Sorry

You made the accusation. The burden of proof is on you. Either prove that all 7 seven women that came after Tweeden were lying and doing so out political motivation. And proved credible links that back you up or admit that you can't.

[brush]

137. See post 60.

[Trumpocalypse]

138. Yes that's the post where make the accusation

I’m asking you to prove it with links from credible sources.

[brush]

139. Those two and Tweeden were in the repug hit job so you do the math.

[Trumpocalypse]

140. Ok I'll give you Tweeden

But do you have any proof on the other two you mentioned? And what about the other 5 accusers?

[brush]

141. You sound sensible so I don't really think you believe the love handle...

bs, or for that matter the one who claimed Franken said "It's my right as an entertainer." And weren't the rest anonymous?

It's pretty apparent now that it was a repug hit job since the claims stop coming the minute Franken stepped down.

And one other seldom mentioned thing, all the women who worked in Franken's office signed a letter saying he had never done anything of the sort to any of them. So who you gonna believe, them or the lyin' accusers with a repug agenda?

[Trumpocalypse]

142. As a sensible person I need to see evidence.

So far this is what I know: https://abcnews.go.com/US/sen-al-frankens-accusers-accusations-made/story?id=51406862

I don’t see evidence that any of them other than Tweeden were Republican operatives.

[wellst0nev0ter]

144. You're choosing to believe a lying birther over Franken

?t=1106

Sit down and think about where you went so wrong

[Trumpocalypse]

145. No that's not what I said

I’m talking about the 7 other women, not Tweeden. Is there any evidence that they were lying and working for the republicans?

[wellst0nev0ter]

146. Two other named accusers are trumpanzees

four were anonymous, and one was an attention seeker accusing Franken of holding her waist during a photo shoot

You're still trying to uphold quantity over the quality of the accusations. We've been through this song and dance before, why keep repeating the same weightless arguments.

[Trumpocalypse]

147. And you're trying to dismiss

their allegations because they are against someone who you like. Franken never called any of them liars or GOP operatives. I won’t either until I see clear evidence that they are.

[wellst0nev0ter]

153. So you're willing to believe lying trumpanzees than Franken

Also, base your arguments on what Franken actually said, mmkay?

Some of the allegations against me are simply not true. Others, I remember very differently. I said at the outset that the ethics committee was the right venue for these allegations to be heard and investigated and evaluated on their merits, that I was prepared to cooperate fully and that I was confident in the outcome.

[Trumpocalypse]

156. Prove that all 8 were lying

and were GOP operatives, and include links to credible sources.

[wellst0nev0ter]

158. Prove they're telling the truth

preferably with a Senate probe, which Franken was not even given.

[Trumpocalypse]

163. A Ethics hearing is not a finding

of guilt or innocence. And do you really believe the republicans on the ethics committee would have given Franken a fair hearing?

But I’ll ask again do you have any proof that all 8 accusers were GOP operatives?

[Trumpocalypse]

113. Due process refers to the criminal justice system

Not to a Senate Ethics hearing which does not determine guilt or innocence.

And to you really believe that the republican members of that committee wouldn't have used it to demonize Franked and paint Democrats as hypocrites?

[ProudLib72]

115. Wrong on both counts

GOP Sen. Cassidy: Democrat Al Franken ‘was clearly drummed out’ without due process: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/11/gop-senator-al-franken-was-clearly-drummed-out-without-due-process.html

Republican Sen. Bill Cassidy is drawing a distinction between sexual assault accusations against conservative Roy Moore and liberal Al Franken.

“I can’t get inside Al Franken’s mind but he was clearly drummed out. He did not have to quit” the Senate, Cassidy told CNBC’s “Squawk Box” on Monday. “There was not due process. Whatever you think about it, you have to have due process in our country. You can’t have kangaroo courts. You have to allow people to be presented with evidence to refute it.”

[Trumpocalypse]

119. The opinion of one Republican

Big deal.

due proc·ess
/d(y)o͞o prəˈses/
noun
noun: due process; noun: due process of law
fair treatment through the normal judicial system, especially as a citizen's entitlement.

[Tom Rinaldo]

8. I count it as a strike against her. In baseball it takes three strikes to be out.

Gillibrand dropped below some other candidates for President because of how she handled the Franken allegations. But I am usually hard pressed to find any major political figure with whom I can find no major area of disagreement and serious disappointment.

She will never get a pass from me on this matter. But it will never be my sole criteria for judging her either.

[Gothmog]

9. Soros is very mad at Gillibrand

Soros just spent over $400,000 in my county electing a new district attorney. Soros has an amazing team and I would not want him mad at me

Link to tweet

[brooklynite]

12. Soros had a opportunity to run or support a candidate against her in the June Primary...

He didn't.

[Gothmog]

41. Soros and other big donors will not be supporting Gillibrand

You do know that there is a big difference between supporting a primary candidate against an incumbent and deciding which candidate you want to support in a run for POTUS. Gillibrand will have a hard time raising the funds needed for a national campaign

[Renew Deal]

59. Are you a big donor?

Which ones do you know?

[Gothmog]

49. This makes me smile

Link to tweet

[TeamPooka]

10. she has changed her opinions on issues like guns to be more appealing as a candidate

so I don't know what she really believes.

[Jarqui]

11. She may know folks with money who can donate to her campaign

but she is not doing that hot in the polls or prediction markets

There are a number of candidates I would prefer ahead of her.
I have not got over what happened with Al Franken.

[brooklynite]

24. MOST candidates aren't doing that well in the early polls...

[Bradshaw3]

36. She is below one percent and below about a dozen others

She's doing much worse than many others, including the second tier candidates.

[Blue Owl]

13. Gillibrand killed her brand

Unless she publicly admits that calling for Al Franken's resignation was a mistake, I'll never be a fan...

[monmouth4]

14. This person isn't even on my radar. A non-entity..n/t

[bigbrother05]

33. Can't see her in the top 5 of women candidates

and that's with being neutral on her Franken issues.

Think that was a purist/opportunist tactic that leave me uneasy with her.

[oberliner]

65. Who are the top 5 women candidates?

[bigbrother05]

93. In no particular order, Warren, Harris, Klobuchar, Baldwin, and Abrams come to mind

not sure my spelling is perect

[oberliner]

118. Those are all great candidates

Can't argue with any of those choices!

[Squinch]

122. TAMMY DUCKWORTH!

[Hermit-The-Prog]

123. only if she says "cadet bonespurs" one more time

[Squinch]

124. Don't you love it!

[bigbrother05]

174. My bad, of course that's the Tammy intended

[BannonsLiver]

89. If she runs her campaign is going nowhere

I know the OP desperately wants her as the nominee, the sole reason being they share the same geographical space and run in the same elite circles, but it’s just not going to happen for KG. And I like that.

[Squinch]

15. I hate what she did, but I find it interesting that many of the same people

who write her off because of it really love the idea of Joe as the candidate.

He trashed Anita Hill, gave us Clarence Thomas and by extension Bush 2, the Iraq war, Citizens United and the whole debacle of the Roberts court.

Don't get me wrong. I love the guy. But why does he get a pass and she doesnt? In the scheme of resulting damage, what she did doesn't come close to what he did.

[hlthe2b]

18. maybe because she is defiantly unrepentant and only continues to dig deeper when asked?

Biden has expressed remorse for much of that and yes, he did apologize for his role in the Hill saga--even if some found it lacking. Gillibrand, on the other hand....

Just as my sigline, I have issues with those who do not examine nor learn from their mistakes.

[MicaelS]

25. Because the Anita Hill / Clarence Thomas affair was 27 years ago.

Biden made a great Vice-President.

[Squinch]

45. Gillibrand is an excellent Senator. Except for the Franken thing.

[MrsCoffee]

53. +1

[brush]

61. And Mrs. Lincoln enjoyed the play except for one thing.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Trumpocalypse]

167. So you think that Franken's resignation

is on par with the assignation of Lincoln?

[brush]

171. Swoosh!

[romana]

44. Amen to that! /nt

[BannonsLiver]

91. THATS probably because most people live in the present and not 1991

And they also hold Thomas accountable for his actions rather than Joe Biden. Not exactly rocket science.

[Squinch]

107. OK. What's the statute of limitations?

[Trumpocalypse]

114. Biden is a man

Gillibrand is a woman.

John Conyers was forced to resign a few days before Franken. Yet everyone here is upset about the white celebrity but not the African-American who fought for progressive causes for over 30 years. I wonder why?

[Squinch]

121. .

[Quixote1818]

161. Good point

[panader0]

17. I'd much rather have Franken in the Senate than her.

"stood up and did the right thing"---BS!
Al is innocent and she was grandstanding.

[mchill]

28. I'd give Franken a donation to run in Kristen's name

That’s as close as she is getting to my money or support.

[dsc]

20. I really dislike the framing of this as having done something to Franken

it is having done something to the people of Minnesota. They elected him, twice. This wasn't the OJ case or some complex product liability trial. 8 women accusers, maybe an average of 2 corraborating witnesses per accuser, depending on what defenses he had maybe a dozen witnesses there. Let her have a lawyer, him have a lawyer and take the 3 or 4 weeks it would have taken, at most, to hold the trial. Add in 3 weeks of discovery and in 2 months Minnesota could have had due process.

[OnDoutside]

21. Dovere seems to have some connection with her, this reads as a puff piece to me. She has also

burnt her bridges with the Clintons.

[FakeNoose]

22. Al Franken was a strong reliable voice in the Senate

... when we needed EVERY vote and then some! To lose his voice and his vote for no good reason was unforgivable.
Why are we Dems always doing this to ourselves?

[TheCowsCameHome]

23. Mercifully, this one will fizzle on the launch pad.

She's "very surprised" it's still an issue?

[DFW]

29. I'm surprised that she's surprised

The article seems to be rather obsessed with her disposable campaign money. I rather agree that any presidential campaign of hers will fizzle on the launch pad. I've met lots of disagreeable people with lots of money.

[kcr]

55. I had the same reaction to her "surprise"

She rarely comes across as authentic, and her political instincts are terrible.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

94. Exactly-- the Franken thing was also bad because it was an example of her lack of political acumen.

She's not fast on her feet-- gets that Dan Quayle in the headlights look when she gets a sticky question from the press. Imagine how she'd handle gotcha questions from people who are genuinely out to crush her.

[MicaelS]

26. I will vote for her only if she wins the nomination.

Otherwise I will not support her in any fashion.

[LakeSuperiorView]

30. Gee, it's been at least a day or two... Hypocrisy abounds...

We get it. Some people think her farts don't stink, others think she ruined her chances at higher office.

[pamdb]

31. Gillibrand

I won't vote for her. If she ends up as the VP on the ticker, which I think would be a BIG mistake, I suppose I would have to, but it's one of those, "hold your nose and vote".

[MariePinchon]

32. Whether or not she chooses to run,

I know she will work tirelessly to support and to help elect our nominee.

Regardless of how one feels about Franken's resignation, she has helped countless victims of sexual assault and harassment and I'm good with that.

[stonecutter357]

34. Gillibrand is doing just fine without ME also !

[Vinnie From Indy]

35. I won't support her

[irisblue]

57. In the primary or in the General?

Your statement is pretty definite.

[Bradshaw3]

38. Even without Franken she is at the bottom for me

I see her as a political opportunist who I wouldn't trust once she got in office. Also, we don't need someone from a reliably blue state on the ticket.

[oberliner]

67. Who is at the top?

[Bradshaw3]

76. She likely isn't running but I really like Duckworth

She checks every box and would have broad appeal to carry midwestern states and help down ballot as well. But no one has declared yet, much less put out position papers, etc. so don't see how people are already declaring for one candidate.

[oberliner]

80. She's great!

[uponit7771]

136. +1, another reason why her involvement in Franken issue doesn't sit right with me

[USALiberal]

39. Your agenda! Nt

[WeekiWater]

40. As someone who really really likes Gillibrand.

The Franken letter is a strike against her. I would not hold it against her in a primary but many would. I knew Franken was going down from the time he said "wait". I simply don't hold it against Gillibrand just as I don't hold it against the majority of Democratic Senators who called for him to resign. I find it to be a shame that all of the blame is put on her and the others are ignored. It's a classic example of scapegoating.

I don't simply give Gillibrand a free pass. Although this is her issue, she should not have been the one designated to head up the letter. I believe I am using that word properly considering what we know. Designated. She should not have done that.

She is a great spokesperson for our party and I would love to see her enter the primaries. If your line in the sand is not having calling for Franken to resign then maybe Manchin is your guy. He actually stood up for Franken publicly.

Gillibrand should be viewed as a force, a progressive, a great representative for the issues we care deeply about, and a leader.

Yet there are individuals who called for Franken to resign who possess more political clout than Gillibrand and are in the top three in early primary polling.

All of that and I will tell you that I like Franken more than any person who called for him to resign. Not because they called for him to resign. Because he was flat out great. For those who watched him he was turning into one of those once in a generation Senators. A Lion of the Senate, if you will.

[oberliner]

68. Well said and thoughtful

Great post.

[Progressive dog]

46. I'm still trying to understand the

anger some "Democrats" have over Gillibrand. Al Franken resigned because several women accused him of treating them as objects and one had pictures to prove it. Over thirty Democratic Senators asked Franken to resign.

Thirty-two Democratic senators -- 13 female and 19 male -- called on Franken to resign as allegations of sexual harassment against him continue to mount. Republican Sen. Susan Collins also called on Franken to quit.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/06/politics/al-franken-democratic-senators-resign/index.html
Gillibrand might or might not get my vote in a Presidential primary, but I won't vote against her because Franken ran away.

[brush]

63. Are you serious about that "gag" photo of a comedian taken in front of several witness by a...

by a photographer? And if you want to see a real photo of someone being groped, google the photo of Lee Ann Tweeden, on the very same USO tour, groping the ass of a guitar player on stage. Her hands were actually touching him, as opposed to Franken's, which were not touching her.

[Progressive dog]

69. The gag photo was not a gag

According to the accused

"I am ashamed of that photo," Franken told Minnesota Public Radio. "She didn’t have any ability to consent. She had every right to feel violated by that photo. I have apologized to her. I was very grateful that she accepted my apology. That is all I can say. My intent doesn’t matter. What matters is that she felt the way she felt from this photo and for that I am ashamed.”

Even Franken couldn't defend that "gag photo."

[brush]

73. Look at the photo again. You can see the shadow of his hands hovering over her.

You seem to have no idea of what a gag photo is and what went on on those baudy USO tours. He apologized for posing for the photo because we are in the "me_too" era and it look politically incorrect.

And seriously, you actually think someone would grope a woman in front of several witnesses and a photographer?

Do you not know Tweenden works as an on-air person at a right wing radio show and teamed with repug dirty trickster Roger Stone and friend Sean Hannity to launch the hit job on an effective Democratic Senator (no longer a comedian doing gag photos). Do you also not know that Stone was quoted just before the scandal broke that "It's will soon be Franken's time in the barrel"?

And why would Tweenden save a photo like that for years if she was so repulsed by it? It was a repug hit job. Get it?

And did you google the photo of her actually groping the guitar player? How the hell does she justify coming forward and complaining about Franken groping her (not) when she actually did grope someone on the same baudy tour? Because of that she is the last person who should accuse somebody of groping.

[Progressive dog]

96. Franken was there

and the photo was taken at a point in time. Seriously, do you think it's normal for a grown man to have his picture taking "pretending" to grope a sleeping woman?
Tweeden wasn't the only one groped and Franken apologized to her. Unlike you, he knew that what he did was not a gag. How you can ignore the testimony of the person accused astounds me.

[brush]

99. Again, he was a comedian. He got the photog to shooting him gagging it up. He did not...

touch her. I repeat, it was a gag photo on a baudy USO tour. And considering the baudy theme of the tour with Tweeden herself actually groping someone...

Did you google the photo of her and the guitar player? Seriously she should be the last person accusing someone.

[Progressive dog]

100. It doesn't matter ifm he touched her

She was asleep and he admits that. Neither you nor he can prove that he didn't touch her. That is not normal behavior. Being a celebrity doesn't let you grope women.

[brush]

102. We've been thru this many times before on DU. I advised you to look at the...

the photo again. It's clear from the cast shadows that he did not touch her. If you don't get that, and don't get that the whole theme of that tour, 12 years ago, pre-me_too, was baudy, gag it up comedy, well, I don't know what to tell you.

And I also advise you to google whether Tweeden said he touched her. You won't find that because she never claimed he touched her. She just, along with dirty trickster Roger Stone and infamous right winger Sean Hannity, launched a hit job on an effective Dem senator.

It's very evident in hindsight. Stone even predicted it was about to happen. Google that as well as you seem woefully uninformed about the whole matter, right up there with Gillibrand.

[Progressive dog]

105. Yes and Franken has still resigned

He had more than one accuser. The others were during his campaign, not while he was doing comedy. They do claim that he touched them.
Tweeden was not a Senator, so we'll never know if she should have resigned for grabbing a guitar player's butt.
Tweeden was probably asleep. Franken said that she was unaware. Obviously she wouldn't have known if he touched her.
Franken is not the only Democratic politician ever targeted by Fox News, but he might be the only one to resign.

[brush]

106. Still woefully uninformed. See post 60 about the other accusers.

[Progressive dog]

109. I get it, any woman who accuses Franken

must be lying. Almost like a cult follower.
Franken didn't have to resign, but he did.
Whether he resigned because of what he did or because he wasn't tough enough to stand up for himself doesn't matter. He is gone for good.
You should have been his adviser since you are so well informed, but it's too late now.

[brush]

131. Whatever you want to believe, but we'll never know because he was...

run out of Congress without even a hearing to find out if the accusers were part of a repug hit job.

We do know not a one came forward the minute he stepped down.

Doesn't that seem bogus to you?

[Progressive dog]

159. He ran himself out

You can't blame anyone but him. Franken left under his own power.
The accusers were not all Republicans. There were eight accusers before he resigned and they were coming from all over.
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/nedd8b/what-8-women-have-said-al-franken-did-to-them

A former Democratic congressional aide said Al Franken tried to forcibly kiss her after a taping of his radio show in 2006, three years before he became a U.S. senator.

Two former colleagues of the woman independently corroborated her version of events, including Franken telling her he had the right to try to kiss her because he was “an entertainer.”

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/al-franken-accusation-sexual-harassment-2006-281049

I assumed Franken would step down later that day. Tweeden’s story rang true to me. I’d told myself I was the only one. I’d been groped by Franken in 2009. It happened at a Media Matters party during the first Obama inauguration. It was a great time to be a Democrat.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/i-believe-frankens-accusers-because-he-groped-me-too/547691/

Notice that one of those women had two witnesses, so that would make ten women who said Franken was a groper.

[USALiberal]

143. Nice try! nt

[oberliner]

70. "I don't know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn't matter...

There's no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn't funny. It's completely inappropriate. It's obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture. And, what's more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it—women who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me."

That is what Franken himself said about that picture.

[brush]

75. It was still a gag photo and his hands were not touching her. In the me_too era of course...

he apologized. But Tweeden should've been the last person to accuse someone of groping when she was photographed on the very same baudy USO tour of actually groping the ass of a guitar player on stage. Google it.

And since you're posting quotes, why not post the one by dirty trickster Roger Stone just before the Franken story broke? He said "I'll soon be Franken's time in the barrel" as he and Tweenden and Sean Hanniity teamed up to launch the hit job on an effective Democratic senator.

And isn't it curious to you that the accusers like the one who accused Franken of groping her love handle for God's sake, they all stop coming forward the minute Franken resigned?

It was a repug hit job plain as day and the gullible but ambitious Gillibrand fell for it and we lost a good senator.

[oberliner]

82. He felt that it was inappropriate and said so and apologized

He made no excuses.

[brush]

83. I know. But you need to recognize, better than Gillibrand, that it was a repug hit job.

[oberliner]

84. That didn't impact Franken's response

Franken took responsibility for his actions, explicitly stated that they were inappropriate (even going so far as to say that he understands how millions of women would feel violated by the photo) and acknowledged feeling disgusted with himself.

Did you not think that was the right response? Do you think he should have made the point that it was a hit job instead of apologizing?

[brush]

90. Like I said, it's the me_too era and him being a gentleman, of course he apologized.

It was still a gag photo (not touching her) Tweeden did actually grope the guitar player (which you conveniently ignored addressing), at the time Franken apologized the fake scandal had not yet mushroomed and it had not yet become apparent that it was a hit job.

Now that it is obvious that it was, why won't you acknowledge it?

[oberliner]

120. But you seem to be suggesting the apology wasn't genuine

That he was just saying what he said to "be a gentleman" and because of the "me too era" that we are in. I am saying that I actually take him at his word - that I take what he said seriously. And that I take his characterization of what he thought of his actions as being important and significant.

I do not think he had to say: "I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself" or "It's completely inappropriate" or "I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it."

Those were pretty strong statements, in my opinion, and I do not think we should just dismiss them as being something he had to say to be a gentleman or what have you.

You keep saying it was a "gag photo" but Franken himself is saying that it is a photo that he could see millions of women feeling violated by. Those are his words, and they should be taken seriously.

That it was put out as part of a right-wing hit job is not germane to the fact that Franken, by his own admission and in his own words, did something that he was disgusted by. I don't see why his own characterization and evaluation of the incident seem to be irrelevant to you (or dismissed as pro forma rather than heartfelt).

[brush]

129. Oh, please. His apology was sincere as to the appearance of the photo...

but he never said the he groped her. He denied that he groped her. And the fact that it was a hit job is the central part of the story. It would never have been a story if Stone, Hannity and Tweeden hadn't cooked up the fake scandal.

Not rocket science to see that.

[oberliner]

164. He pretended to grope her in the photo

And he acknowledged it was completely inappropriate and that he could see how millions of women would feel violated by the picture. Those were his words. He made no excuses for it, the way you seem to be.

Are you not able to acknowledge what Franken himself has?

Will you agree with Franken that the photo was completely inappropriate?

Will you agree with Franken that you could see how millions of women would feel violated by the photo?

This is what Franken himself has said.

[brush]

165. We all know the photo was inapproriate. No one is denying that.

What I was denying was that he groped her.

Now will you acknowledge that it was a repug hit job using a 12-year-old gag photo as phony evidence?

[athena]

176. People love to hate ambitious women.

That’s what this is all about. Both men and women love to heap hate on a woman who doesn’t accept her place as a second-class citizen in this society. If another woman becomes the front runner in 2016, we will see her destroyed on DU as HRC was for months. I fear Americans will once again demonstrate that they’d rather be led by a sexual predator and a crook than a woman.

It’s sickening to see so many so-called liberals defending behavior that they would condemn if it were committed by a Republican. Hypocrisy, unfortunately, is not limited to the right wing.

[lark]

47. Methinks she doth protest too much.

Doesn't matter, she can now say whatever she wants, but good luck getting dupes to believe it. Nothing in the world would get me to vote for her in the primaries. However, as a true died in the wool, yellow dog Democrat; if she is the general nominee I'd hold my nose and vote for her because even conservadem serial backstabbers who don't care for the truth are at least not Russian agents out to destroy liberal democracies everywhere, and so I'd vote for her.

[MoonRiver]

48. I don't like her, for more reasons than just Franken.

She is dead last on my Democratic primary preference. That said, I'd vote for her in the general, but that's not a dilemma I expect to face.

[oberliner]

71. What are the reasons?

[MoonRiver]

98. She doesn't seem very smart. She's boring and completely uncharismatic.

She also seems to be an opportunist, who would throw her best friend under the bus if it got her up the political ladder. If you want an example just look at what she did to her "friend" Bill Clinton. You know, the one who helped her win the Senate seat, and who she previously supported until it wasn't in her interest to do so.

[oberliner]

117. Thanks for the response

She comes across as pretty smart to me, and I don't find her at all boring and think she does posses a fair amount of charisma, but I understand that others may feel the opposite. With respect to Bill Clinton, I do think that some people (women, in particular) have had to re-evaluate certain aspects of his legacy. One way to present it would be as you did, suggesting she threw him under the bus, another way would be to say that she has courageously held someone accountable, even though he had been helpful to her politically in the past. In any case, I feel like her record as being the top anti-Trump Senator speaks volumes. I like her a lot, as you can no doubt tell.

[Takket]

50. wouldn't know she's doing okay by reading posts here...

If DU represents the hard core "base" of the party then I think she has a problem whether the article says so or not. Opinions of her from posters here are just slightly better than those of drumpf.

I would vote for her if she were the party nominee but I would not support her in a primary because I don't believe she can motivate the base to GOTV because of her Franken stance.

[MrsCoffee]

56. DU has never represented the hard core base of the party.

Think Kucinich.

I think DU runs very progressive.

[dem4decades]

52. I'd vote for her. If she was the only Democrat running. Then I'd hold my nose and vote.

[aeromanKC]

54. Gillibrand will not be on the ticket

It will a combination of Biden Harris Kobachar and Beto

Book it Dano.

[brush]

79. I like your predictions except Joe as IMO his time has passed.

We win when we run younger candidates like O, Clinton, Carter, JFK.

That's our formula and Harris, Beto and Klobuchar all fit the profile.

[Renew Deal]

58. She was the most popular statewide elected official in 2018

[MoonRiver]

66. That means very little in a nation wide election.

[quickesst]

72. " The New York senator, who's expected to launch a presidential campaign soon"

This after promising to serve her full term if re-elected. As shown before, Gillibrand is a professional opportunist, starting with throwing the Clinton's under the bus, torpedoing Al Franken, and now this just to name a few. Gillibrand will never be president.

[democratisphere]

77. Well said. Sums her up. Thank you!

[quickesst]

87. You're welcome

There is nothing wrong with having goals. It's how you get there that counts.

[brush]

81. Yep, having the Clintons and Franken as notches on her belt is not good.

IMO she'll be wasting her time and donors money, if she can get any major donors.

[quickesst]

88. yep

She is near the bottom of the list now, and I just can't see her rising much, if any, from there.

[zonkers]

86. Baggage. Plus electorally, do we really need a NYer? ( I am a a NYer)

[quickesst]

95. Let's see....

Omitting Trump, who probably won't be president next year, there is de Blasio, Cuomo, gillibrand, Bloomberg, and maybe, possibly, Hillary Clinton. Of these New Yorkers, I can see only one that may have a substantial impact. I don't think a New Yorker will be in the cards this time around. But, on the other hand, never Say never.

[Rene]

78. oh it's STILL AN ISSUE. She'll never get my vote

She betrayed a fellow Democrat with crap accusations

[Eric J in MN]

85. Gillibrand is hearing from an equal number

...of people who support and oppose her driving Al Franken out of the Senate without an investigation.

Most of the people who oppose her decision are staying away from her.

[flamingdem]

92. I'd rather see Franken run

She seems tone deaf

[AllyCat]

101. I would really appreciate her addressing the issue

It seems there are many that want to stand behind her because she is a good candidate, but why did she take down Franken?

[oberliner]

148. The framing of that question is not fair

[Trumpocalypse]

150. Of course t isn't

If there was any fairness in this whole thing, this thread along with the weekly cult of Franken threads wouldn’t exist.

[AllyCat]

154. Okay, so what is the reason behind his ouster?

[Trumpocalypse]

155. Eight women

Who accused him of inappropriate behavior.

[tavernier]

104. I would wager Franken could beat her.

Soundly.

[LiberalFighter]

110. She lives in a bubble

[brooklynite]

111. ...as do some people here.

Perspectives at DU have little relationship to actual voting patterns.

[Lotusflower70]

127. If she is surprised

It shows how oblivious she is and that is not a quality I want in a President. Nope. Just no and hell to the no.

[JCinNYC]

128. Ahhhhhhh

That's cause Kanvanslaw is now a supreme court justice for life and Franken'a poltical career is practically over

Is she is clueless about the difference applied?

[lame54]

132. She still thinks she was right?...

Do not want her as the nominee

[Stellar]

149. There are more small dollar donors than a big dollar donor.

Those small-dollar donors need to let their voices be heard. They need to get out the vote for more like-minded people.

Gillibrand is finishing the year with $10.5 million in the bank that can be transferred right into a 2020 run, only $2 million behind Warren. She raised $5.5 million in low-dollar donations, behind only Warren and Bernie Sanders.

[rzemanfl]

151. Waiting for that "post removed" person to post. n/t

[torius]

152. Liz Warren gets my vote.

Been a Warren fan since watching her run circles around Scott Brown in debates. She beat him not only on a policy level (Dems always win on an intellectual basis) but she had passion and could communicate her caring about regular people. She's also very accomplished, and has stuck to her positions, unlike Gillibrand (not that sticking to positions is always good--but it shows that she truly believes in them).

[brooklynite]

157. "Warren joins chorus calling for Franken's resignation"

Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren joined the chorus of Democratic senators calling for Minnesota Democrat Al Franken to resign in the wake of new sexual harassment allegations, including fellow Senator Ed Markey.

Female Democratic senators lead the charge for Franken’s ouster Wednesday, but Warren was the last among them to speak out publicly against him, waiting until mid-afternoon to do so.

“I think he should resign,” Elizabeth Warren said in a statement put out by her staff. She did not elaborate.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/12/06/aide-says-warren-called-franken-and-told-him-should-resign/FB0n5aTIdNc3IiRM8gSwXN/story.html

[torius]

160. Oh I never saw that.

Still, she was jumping on the bandwagon, which isn't as bad as leading it.

[brooklynite]

168. CNN: "Women senators coordinated calls for Al Franken to resign"

Starting around 11:30 a.m. ET, the senators posted statements in a coordinated effort, one after the other, on social media, saying the Minnesota Democrat should step down.

...snip...

Women Democratic senators had been talking behind the scenes for at least the past week about how to deal with Franken, multiple aides told CNN. But those talks reached a tipping point Wednesday morning, they said, when Politico published a report at 9 a.m. ET of another woman alleging that Franken touched her inappropriately in 2006, before he was elected to office.

The story prompted a flurry of calls and texts between Senate offices within minutes, and it was decided sometime between then and about 10:30 a.m. ET that the women senators would go public in a show of unity with their desire for Franken to step aside.
"Their patience had worn incredibly thin," said an aide to one of the women senators.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/06/politics/senators-al-franken-resignation/index.html

Of course, it's not nearly as much fun if you don't have a single target to demonize...

[Trumpocalypse]

169. Actually I consider that worse.

Regardless of the issue. Doesn't make someone much of a leader.

[Trumpocalypse]

170. My takeaway from that link

Within minutes, Gillibrand was followed by two, then four, and eventually more than a dozen of her female colleagues. By mid-afternoon, more than half of the Senate Democrats had weighed in, saying it was time for Franken to go.

Nothing happens that fast in government or politics unless it was all coordinated before hand. And there is only one person in the Senate that has the power to do that, a certain Senator from New York but much taller with gray hair not blonde.

[LongtimeAZDem]

162. At a time when the Republicans in power were bending the country over the sink,

she chose to lead the charge to deprive us of a popular and influential Democratic Senator.

If she's genuinely surprised that this is still an issue, then she doesn't have anything close to the political acumen necessary to lead the party.

[drbtg1]

166. With regard to the Tweeden photo...

I agree there are shadows under Mr. Franken's hands, thus definitely not actually touching, and his mugging for the camera playing up the fact that everyone (except for the most comedically-challenged) should know this was a joke. However, IIRC, wasn't Tweeden wearing a flak jacket in the photo? If so, if she was wearing something that could protect someone from bullets, the flak jacket would not easily lend itself to groping, thus making it even funnier.

Just sayin'...

[athena]

175. Good job, defending bullying and harassment.

DU spent half a year in 2016 demonizing a female Democrat. Over two years later, we’re still living with the consequences. Let’s just go ahead and demonize another Democratic female contender. Because misogyny feels so good, eh?

No one said Franken actually groped the woman. Taking a photograph of a woman in that position, and publicizing it as a joke without her consent, reveal a nastiness and a disrespect for women that should not be tolerated in any public official.

It’s especially sickening that you try to dismiss the behavior as a “joke”. I thought the days when women were called humorless for complaining about sexual harassment were ancient history. Sadly, this country is still as disgustingly misogynistic as it ever was. We deserve what we get in 2020.

[drbtg1]

178. Wrong on so many levels, but you go believe whatever you want. n/t

n/t

[marlakay]

172. She is in New York

Her state may be happy with her but rest of country really liked Al. I am a woman I care about abuse but he was thrown to the wolves without a trial or any hearings. And she led the charge, my personal opinion is she knew he was going to run and wanted to take him out of the way.

[brooklynite]

173. Activists and bloggers do not constitute "the rest of the country"

I'm guess that most of the 30 MILLION Democratic Primary voters have no recollection that this happened, and won't factor it into their candidate choice.

[LW1977]

177. Nope, not her!

Hope she drops out early with lack of support!