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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBye-bye, bank-teller bigot.
I bank on my phone but had to go in person to close an account. As the teller was doing his thing, in the room's absolute silence, I said merrily, "Wouldn't it be nice to have some classical music? This place is so quiet!"
He grinned and said, "Yes! Christmas music!" I said very nicely, "Well, not everyone is Christian, which is why I suggested classical, because (and here I made a sweeping arc with one arm) it transcends all religions!" (Yes, I know that's not always true, but I was just quipping.) Then I added, "Don't you agree?"
His face turned to stone and he said not another word to me. As he handed me my paperwork, I said with a laugh, "I guess not!" and I almost SKIPPED out of that bank knowing I don't have to go back.
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)Im accepting of pretty much everyone, but I'm sure I have my blind sides.
Mariana
(14,856 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)I'm not a person of faith. And these days I feel threatened by religious extremists who are endangering our nation.
But I also know that most who say these things around here are good hearted, decent people; and because I'm not a religious bigot, I chose to assume she wasn't either.
So I smiled back and said, "Thank you, and the same to you." And I left her smiling too.
Harker
(14,015 posts)is a really nice thing to do.
lame54
(35,287 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)Sneederbunk
(14,290 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)After the Y quit political talk a guy at our gym shows up with Giant NRA on his shirt with an American flag. I wanted to turn on MSNBC so badly.
Croney
(4,659 posts)wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)big·ot
/ˈbiɡət/
noun
noun: bigot; plural noun: bigots
a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.
"don't let a few small-minded bigots destroy the good image of the city"
synonyms: chauvinist, partisan, sectarian; More
Why do you see the speck that is in your brothers eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)more motey (edit - "specky". I'm used to the KJV where it's a mote, not a speck) than excluding all but one?
Mariana
(14,856 posts)that indicates the OP "is intolerant toward those holding different opinions"?
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)realmirage
(2,117 posts)Harker
(14,015 posts)The OP is reading and considering many other points of view, without slamming any doors.
That's how we grow... with help from each other. I find that the older I get the less likely I am to say provocative or insensitive things.
At seventeen I said, "congratulations" to fellow buying a dozen local newspapers at the news shop where I worked, since to that point only new parents had made such purchases for the birth announcements. His mother had died, and he was getting copies of the obituary notice.
FSogol
(45,481 posts)LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)ProfessorGAC
(65,008 posts)Might be closer to a soccer flop.
LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)Christmas can be secular. But not usually.
Plenty of oh holy night etc etc
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)By their own account, the teller smiled and made conversation; the OP then chose to (quite theatrically, by their description), lecture the teller.
What did the teller do? "His face turned to stone and he said not another word to me". As an atheist, I might not have done anything different with a customer who was making a scene.
And, that's all the teller did in this story; didn't refuse service, or lecture the customer back, or insult them; nothing.
Yeah, I think the OP was looking for it, based on the events described.
2naSalit
(86,572 posts)a two sentence observation does not a lecture make, nor was the customer making a scene... just wow. Seems like a lot of extra emphasis was added to this story in your reckoning.
I get pretty tired of people insisting that the only thing anyone should be thinking about is xmas and all its commercial trappings, when it is prevalent in a conversation I make the same claim as the customer, politely. People need to realize that there are other beliefs than their own and just because capitalism has a grip on a concept does not require all of us to participate in it or enjoy it if we find it offensive or uncomfortable.
Don't know that I would use the term bigot in the telling of this tale but I certainly did not come away with the idea that the customer was rude, making a scene or insulting in any way. The teller should have kept their beliefs/opinions to themselves if anyone should have checked their emotions, customer service and all.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)Far less so than calling someone a "bigot" based on the information given, IMO.
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)"wow." It is a lazy way of making a statement that is really meaningless IMHO.
2naSalit
(86,572 posts)you weren't able to read past the first sentence as immediately following my exclamation of "wow" to indicate that I was not getting where the other commenter got all that it did from the OP. Because immediately following the word "wow" I go on to explain what I meant by that, if you had been able to get that far, you might have noticed that part of my comment.
But whatever, have a happy day anyway.
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)Tipperary
(6,930 posts)about their beliefs.
2naSalit
(86,572 posts)Croney
(4,659 posts)rusty fender
(3,428 posts)I am also an atheist, but I wouldnt put a stranger, especially someone doing his or her job, in a position to agree or disagree with my belief that that classical music ascends all religions
I love classical music, but I dont associate it with religion. If Id been that teller I might have reacted the same way, perhaps, but being the wise-ass that I am, I probably would have said merry Christmas and left it at that
Mariana
(14,856 posts)How, exactly, as the OP supposed to divine that the clerk would inject his own personal favorite holiday into his response to a general comment about music vs. silence?
2naSalit
(86,572 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)Happy holidays to you.
Croney
(4,659 posts)I was never rude, but he became very rude. I guess that was my point, that he became rude after my comment that not everyone is Christian.
brooklynite
(94,510 posts)Please describe the rudeness. I suspect a number of us don't see it.
Croney
(4,659 posts)one of those "you had to be there" tales that don't make sense if you have to use that phrase. Sorry about that.
FakeNoose
(32,634 posts)... in my opinion if someone likes the music that our culture refers to as "Christmas music" that doesn't means he/she is a bigot. A lot of the popular holiday tunes aren't the slightest bit religious in nature, it's more about nostalgia than anything. Some of the greatest American songwriters of the 20th century were Jewish and yet they penned many "Christmas" songs.
Croney
(4,659 posts)on the music part, when the focus should have been the "not everyone is Christian" moment when the atmosphere soured.
I need to contemplate before I post. Lol
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)illogical.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)The very definition of prejudice.
nmgaucho
(527 posts)Some are very good compositions
Bonx
(2,053 posts)Croney
(4,659 posts)Vylons, in a post below, makes my point better than I did.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)"Well I would prefer Christmas music, but classical is nice too." That way, he could have expressed his opinion without invalidating yours. Your original comment was merely being pleasant without being confrontational. It's the Christmas season, and aren't people supposed to be generous-natured and gracious? Some of these so-called Christians are so self-righteous and ungracious. Rather than reading the Bible, they should study an etiquette book.
Croney
(4,659 posts)I'm not exactly batting a thousand here, and rightly so. People have made good points and I don't mind it.
Mariana
(14,856 posts)to be offended about this kind of thing.
I guarantee you if the conversation were reversed here - if it had been the clerk who suggested classical music, and you who said you wanted to hear Christmas music, these same people would be denouncing the clerk as the bad guy in the story.
Croney
(4,659 posts)vlyons
(10,252 posts)I would have engaged in a few pleasantries. E.G. "What are your plans for the holiday?" or "Do you have little children to celebrate with." of "Well let's hope the weather will be nice and pleasant." Or if the customer got all defensive about not being a Christian, I still would have said something pleasant back. Why is it so difficult for people to just be nice to one another?
Mariana
(14,856 posts)and the best thing this time of year is to shut up about holidays, unless the customer brings it up first - and the OP didn't.
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)in some way is what is wrong here.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Calling someone a bigot because they like Christmas music?
Im not in the least religious, and I love many Christmas songs, some of them religious ones.
ProfessorGAC
(65,008 posts)Neither of us have done much other than drive by a church except for parents' funerals in 40+ years. She has the cable channel that is christmas music all the time, or her CD player that looks like an old fashioned radio, going with seasonal music all the time from mid-Nov to after the New Year.
We just see them as seasonal tunes.
FBaggins
(26,731 posts)... would be to turn on Handel's Messiah (as reworked by Mozart in case the OP wants to be snooty about "classical" )
he could have expressed his opinion without invalidating yours.
Which is just what the OP fails to do.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Well said.
Croney
(4,659 posts)What I thought would be the focus of my post has not come across, and it's all about the music. I get it.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Much as when I go out and hear jazz playing, I inform the person playing it, "How about some classic rock? Not everyone is a pretentious knob..."
Not really, I like jazz. If I did what you did however, I'd be forced to consider myself a pretentious knob-- but I'd skip and laugh and wave my arms to better ignore it.
DFW
(54,365 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,328 posts)Take this!
(Actually, thanks! Been years since I heard that tune you posted and that's the first time I've seen that animation. )
DFW
(54,365 posts)Actually the animation was a tribute to Freberg. I'm not even sure he was still alive when it was made. My parents used to play me the original 45 when I was little as a subtle warning. I got the hint, but suspected something was slightly off as far as being a serious threat went.
GusBob
(7,286 posts)I have spent plenty of time on both sides of the counter
What I can tell you is this time of the year is the worst. You are literally damned if you do and damned if you don't. It seems as if the holidays bring out the edginess in more folks for some reason. We called it the Grinch syndrome at one of my jobs
He probably just got his head ripped off from some other customer for the exact opposite reason
And just so you know, a teller has no say whatsoever about the banks policy about music
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)Mariana
(14,856 posts)Such that some even consider the suggestion of playing anything other than Christmas music in December, or saying that everyone doesn't celebrate it, makes you a bigot. It's ridiculous.
Harker
(14,015 posts)and many Christmas songs are secular.
robbob
(3,528 posts)Classical music represents white euro-centric culture at its most snobbish. How will such music make minorities from other cultures feel? Should they not be mixing in traditional music from India, China, Africa, etc. so no culture feels left out? Just taking the argument to its absurd conclusion!
...maybe this is why the bank stopped playing music! 😁
Perfect!
Harker
(14,015 posts)at a bank, or anywhere else!
robbob
(3,528 posts)arent even about Christmas! Just off the top of my head:
Frosty the Snowman
Winter Wonderland
Baby Its Cold Outside (Whoops! They arent playing THAT one anymore!)
...please feel free to add to the list of Christmas songs that dont even MENTION Christmas!
Harker
(14,015 posts)I'll be Home for Fitzmas...
LuvLoogie
(6,997 posts)A lot of Classical music is Christmas music, And a lot of Christmas music is Classical.
Some of the origins of classical music can be found in the modal work of Christian monks.
See Gregorian Chants and Vespers
The composers to which you allude were often inspired by their Christian God.
Croney
(4,659 posts)That's what I like about this board.
In my mind, the story was about me asking him to agree that not everybody is Christian and therefore classical would be better. I'm not in the habit of carrying on conversations with bank tellers, and this all happened quickly; that is why I thought I'd post about it. It was an unusual exchange, for me.
It felt like a morgue in there. Any music would have been nice, now that I think of it! Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Glad it cheered you so much that you skipped out of the bank.
I find this to be rather a sad story.
Croney
(4,659 posts)I guess you had to be there. Any further description of his behavior would be seen as embellishment, so I will chalk this up as a bad bit of storytelling. Sorry.
Harker
(14,015 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 19, 2018, 01:48 PM - Edit history (1)
I think anyone who might have thought you bigoted will rethink that assessment based on your openness.
Everyone has their own take. As a Buddhist recently partnered with a Christian, and being part of a very small minority where we now live, I both offer and accept heartfelt wishes for a "merry Christmas." I've also been scorned by some for my beliefs, or lack thereof.
I'm for getting along!
50 Shades Of Blue
(9,983 posts)realmirage
(2,117 posts)Rather it appears from your own story that you were going out of your way to make a big point about being an atheist or at the very least adamantly non-christian, which is sort of a rude thing to do in a casual conversation about background christmas music at the bank. People who work with the public deal with all kinds of insane people. I can tell you that from experience. This teller is just working a register for little pay, with no music playing, probably bored and miserable, and a customer walks in, the teller responds to brief small talk with the customer out of politeness and suddenly finds that the customer wants to make a big cultural point about christianity at the counter at the bank. You make a large sweeping motion with your arm, very animated, and awkward, and the teller doesn't want to get unexpectedly dragged into a very serious debate about religion with someone who seems ready to be confrontational.
Seriously, people who work in customer service deal with the craziest shit. When a customer shows signs of being a bit off balance, you never know what you might say that will spark a wild reaction and a "I want to see your manager." Anyone who comes in and shows a hint of wanting to make a scene triggers the employee into "oh god another customer who can't get in and out of the store without making a scene" mode.
My advice is just try to be polite, understanding, and reasonable with all differing points of view, don't take shit so seriously, and don't try to change the world by confronting an underpaid bank teller over christianity during the holidays. They don't need or want that shit. They just want to get through the shift with the least amount of suffering possible.
Croney
(4,659 posts)I didn't come across as a kook. I was simply surprised at his abrupt change in demeanor when I said not everybody is Christian. That's it. No heated exchange, no plumping up of my feathers. It wasn't an appropriate conversation to have at a bank. That's why I talked about it. You're right, of course.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)since you've worked with the public you can see that even a non-christian would clamp up when a customer brings up religion at the counter. It might not have been that the teller was offended, but just sensing the potential for a very inappropriate conversation about religion while clocked in at work.
I'm sure you've been in a similar situation. I know I have.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Most people are too weak to admit when maybe they weren't seeing the whole picture from all points of view. Those who can, become wise, and it's a real sign of strength to put aside the ego in favor of truth. Not that I have wisdom or strength. But I try, with mixed results.
Croney
(4,659 posts)that thinking with my ego is not bringing my best brains to the table. I've certainly been schooled in this thread, and I'm better for it.
Mariana
(14,856 posts)In my opinion, it's inappropriate to talk about any particular holiday to a customer unless the customer brings it up first - and you didn't. You made a rather general comment about music, and he felt the need to inject Christmas into the conversation.
Croney
(4,659 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)Croney
(4,659 posts)Marengo
(3,477 posts)Floyd R. Turbo
(26,546 posts)Marengo
(3,477 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)Marengo
(3,477 posts)Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Theyre amusing to read.
xor
(1,204 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 19, 2018, 03:39 PM - Edit history (1)
I'm not a fan of Christmas music myself, but I don't consider people who like Christmas music to bigots. Besides, most people don't even view Christmas as a religious thing, nor is all Christmas music religious in nature. Isn't that why Christians are often times saying "put Christ back into Christmas"?
To be honest, even as a non-christian who reluctantly partakes in Christmas festivities to satisfy those in my life, I too probably would have gave that same look after an exchange like that.
Nothing against you. Maybe I'm imagining it differently than you are.
BannonsLiver
(16,370 posts)Im not too invested either way on the music, but a good deal of it is 100 percent secular. I find it weird someone would be offended by Jingle Bells or Frosty. Maybe try to lighten up a little.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)No, Jesus has nothing whatsoever to do with the holiday. It's a celebration of the winter solstice. The idea that Jesus was born in December has been proven false over and over again. Early Christians just saw a way to assimilate a pagan holiday and brand it as Christian.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)this viewpoint. That Christians visiting a festival on a trade route eventually invested it with religious meaning has meaning to succeeding peoples who like that meaning, even if not to the others who'd been celebrating at that time of year for far longer, and ever since
But regarding absolutism, which strikes this liberal as almost the antithesis of liberalism, surely the meaning of Christmas is an individual choice? I don't see how we can make that for choice for anyone but ourselves. We can, obviously, claim that our own favorite view applies to all the rest of humanity, but...really?
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)You're right that there is a range of meaning we ascribe to anything (including music) and no two people ascribe the same meaning. So the OP was seemingly making the argument the Christmas songs that are all pervasive at this time of year make those who are not Christian feel isolated. I don't think that anyone can claim what they feel personally for the whole of the group: you can't say that just because you dislike Christmas music that all non-Christians hate it too.
My response was sort of the ultimate attack in the war on Christmas. I am correct that biblical scholars completely disagree with Jesus being born in December and that Christmas is an assimilation of a pagan ritual. However, even with that proof, do any of us really give a damn? Everyone is still buying presents. Everyone is still putting up lights and other decorations. Come hell or high water, we, as an American culture, are going to celebrate Christmas. I guess my point is, you can choose to be a dick about it, but it isn't going to stop anyone from celebrating it.
I guess I wasn't being very obvious in my first post, was I?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)People do occasionally rant here, after all. I also use words in the privacy of my living room that I don't even use here. (Jeanine Pirro is coming to mind at the moment.)
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)that Jesus is the reason for the season are on the opposite end of the spectrum and equally obnoxious. I think a few people posting above mentioned that it is a secular holiday. I might not go that far since it is based on Christian belief; however, I would argue that a lot of people just enjoy having the time off to spend with friends and family. I don't think we need to have pushy comments from either side. Everyone needs to mind their own business and let others enjoy the holiday in whatever way they want.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)It's led to some interesting conversation and responses. I appreciate you sharing it and personally think your point was a good one.
Croney
(4,659 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)I have also been really impressed with the way you have handled some of the more critical responses.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)It is not, as some attempt to claim, an exclusive religious holiday. If it were, it would not be a US federal holiday.
I know of NO Christian denomination which involves as a matter of religious practice dancing snowmen, decorated evergreen trees, flying reindeer, etc.. Most of the trappings and customs of Christmas bear no relation to any Christian religious belief or practice. Quite obviously, there is nothing in the Bible - either in the gospels or the putative acts of the apostles, which involves Jesus celebrating his putative birthday or anyone else celebrating it for that matter.
Likewise, most of the "Christmas music" has nothing whatsoever to do with any religious belief, custom or practice.
A question for you:
Is Handel's "Messiah", in your mind, "Christmas music" or "classical music"? Off the top of my head, I'd guess much of what qualifies as "classical music" is sacred music of some kind (e.g. practically the entire opus of Bach), as opposed to Christmas carols which, in the main, are not religious at all.
Retrograde
(10,134 posts)once you get past the "For Unto Us a Child Is Born" part. How it got to be associated strictly with Christmas I don't know - but then "Jingle Bells" and "Frosty the Snowman" are about winter in general, which in the part of the Us where I grew up were more January than December activities.
Back to the original question: The Messiah is an example of classical music from a particular time period with a Christian theme.
Kaleva
(36,294 posts)geardaddy
(24,926 posts)phleshdef
(11,936 posts)Thats some passive aggressive trolling on your part.
Oneironaut
(5,493 posts)A man, nearly in tears and resting his hand on my shoulder, uttered a whispered, "Thank you."
Who was that mystery man? None other than Albert Einstein.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Cause I did not see it.
Im a nonbeliever and kind of like Christmas music. I might have responded just like the teller.
Decoy of Fenris
(1,954 posts)Been in that teller's place, myself. The -second- someone mentions anything about religion, the conversation's over. Too much liability, not enough to gain from continuing the conversation. I'd rather come across as stone-faced and grumpy than take my chances yammering a hot-button topic with some random dipshit.
Kaleva
(36,294 posts)The OP is the one who brought up religion.
Raine
(30,540 posts)only you who started up something with someone who was working at their job. I'm sure he's even happier that he won't have to deal with you again.