General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEarth Has Seen A Carbon Spike Like This Before. It Did Not End Well.
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The principle isnt just that increasing carbon dioxide makes things get hot, but that fast changes in ocean and atmospheric chemistry can trigger a reordering of the living world. That in turn causes more chemical changes, leading to cascading changes in the biosphere. In the end-Permian, there was a collapse of plankton and fish and an explosion of bacteria that emit sulfur compounds and possibly others that exhale heat-trapping methane. Seth Burgess, a United States Geological Survey geologist who studies the end-Permian, said there are two intriguing puzzles the trigger mechanism and the kill mechanism. Theres a general agreement that the trigger was, in part, volcanic activity giving rise to an igneous formation called the Siberian Traps. But the eruptions alone couldnt have released enough greenhouse gases to cause the estimated 10-15 degree Celsius rise in global temperature.
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Rothman looked at 31 periods when atmospheric carbon rose, most of which didnt have a big effect on the biosphere. When changes were big but happened slowly, life had a chance to adjust. If they happened fast but amounted to only a small carbon increase, life could go on as before. Last year, Rothman came up with a formula based on both the rate and total amount of added carbon, and demonstrated that it predicted which of those 31 periods would lead to catastrophe. According to his formula, our current rate of emissions is extremely high, but it wont cause a mass extinction unless our total emissions add 310 gigatons of carbon to the oceans. He published the results in Science Advances.
The UNs Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change estimates that human activity will add 300 and 500 gigatons of carbon dioxide to the oceans by the end of the 21st century, so 310 is close to the best-case scenario. When I talked to Rothman, he said to keep in mind the uncertainty. By looking at the geochemical record, it would appear we are going to put the system on a track toward some type of instability, he said. But how that works is highly speculative.
People talk about climate change being settled science, he said, but that refers to the most basic parts. Scientists know approximately how much our emissions are likely to warm the planet a factor called the climate sensitivity. What we dont know, he said, is how this linear relationship might break down. The big unknown unknowns are the positive feedbacks, he said. The big risk is the system takes off on its own.
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https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-12-21/lessons-on-global-warming-from-prehistoric-end-permian-extinction
roamer65
(36,745 posts)That is the problem.
violetpastille
(1,483 posts)It is too many and we aren't going to make it.
If we all lived like Pre-Columbian Native Americans? 8 Billion not a problem. No houses. No cars. No cows. No wireless. No monoculture. No antibiotics. We could stop this ecocide today if we all got on board.
But realistically..I was watching a (gardening) show last night about Cuba. That might be conceivably a half step down for us. Make no more new stuff. Take care of the old stuff. In any free space plant something that people can eat. Maybe we can make it?
I have been to China. I have seen and breathed and tasted the future. It is horrible.
Cheap consumer goods have a cost much greater than their price.
akraven
(1,975 posts)No indoor plumbing. Good garden spot.
I guess I'm another leech.
misanthrope
(7,411 posts)My physical disability requires as much.
I have to have electricity for storing life-sustaining medication, for an oxygen compressor, for breathing treatments and air conditioning to withstand the summers here which would just about kill me otherwise. That same electricity and internet access allows me to work out of my home, reducing my exposure to contagion.
Without modern medicine, I would be dead.
akraven
(1,975 posts)My dad-in-love was in a nearly same boat as you. We took all the help we could get. I just hate being called a leech because I'm a Democrat/liberal/activist.
IN NO WAY ARE YOU A LEECHH!
When Dale (dad-in-love) passed, he did so in his home in his bed with his kitties. I still miss him.
violetpastille
(1,483 posts)I don't think anyone is. I apologize for my reply not being more clear.
It's not realistic for us to live like Pre Columbian Indians. I know that and I know I said that, but I will again. It's not realistic to go back several thousand years within one generation. As you point out, and I left in negative space - it's too much. People would suffer.
But perhaps we can live like Cubans or Brits during WW2.
Cubans were forced by the "Special Period" to sacrifice. The Allies were forced by our governments. But we can all do a little or a lot voluntarily.
I can do a lot. I've scaled way back and will continue to. But I do love a hot shower. I'm not going to lie. And I'm not going to judge. Shutting up is another matter. lol. For instance...
I would love it if instead of having idealistic kids or kids who need a job joining the armed forces they could join an "Earth Force". And environmentalism was considered patriotic and even a little sexy. Just typing and talking. But at least it's out there.
violetpastille
(1,483 posts)You aren't a leech. You know you aren't. If we all lived as you do we would not be in the fix we're in.
akraven
(1,975 posts)And have to find water for our sprayer. Usually Fox Spring, sometimes Chena River.
roamer65
(36,745 posts)the population would have to be reduced to 2 billion.
As we deplete non-renewable resources, that number continues to shrink.
Cetacea
(7,367 posts)democratisphere
(17,235 posts)I understand even if you marinade them, they still don't taste like chicken!
roamer65
(36,745 posts)Mendocino
(7,486 posts)will be caused by ecologic and economic collapse.
WWIV will be fought with rocks.
misanthrope
(7,411 posts)And human history holds all the indicators.
Mendocino
(7,486 posts)will likely be preferable to the slow death of nuclear winter.