This is the reason why I am terrified and angry about Trump voters.

[shockey80]

I have been a life long history buff. I have read about people like the Trump voters before. This is not new.

This is not about arguing with people over political views. This is about people who have developed a mental sickness. A sickness so dangerous it has killed tens of millions of people throughout history. It is a sickness that leads to self destruction. The german people of the 1930s suffered from it. The American people of the 1860s suffered from it. There are many more examples. I am not saying something like this will happen, I'm saying it could happen. We are in great danger.

Tens of millions of Americans voted for a man that was clearly mentally ill. They voted for someone who was completely unqualified. A man who clearly does not believe in democracy. They voted for someone who clearly did not believe in the rule of law, a life long crook. They voted for someone who was clearly working with our enemy. None of this was hidden during the campaign. It was all out in the open. The Trump voters ignored all of it. All the excuses they have given for voting for Trump are worthless. They are not real. Trump voters have turned against reality and the truth. This type of mental sickness is hard to survive.

Over the past two years all of us witnessed the results of the Trump voters sickness. Things are starting to spin out of control. Being a history buff I know that sometimes when things spin out of control you cannot stop it, no matter how hard people try to stop it, they can't. Fate takes over. Trump voters have watched all the damage ,crazy shit, being done the past two years. They see no threat or they don't care. That's self destruction, that's history.

[allgood33]

1. Over half of those who voted for Trump no longer support him. His base may threaten civil war

but most of his base have been unemployed for the last 18 months, drugged out, sick, and too remote from modern civilization. They will end up in a circular shooting match with themselves and imagined boogiemen.

[Mariana]

21. Do you have some actual numbers to support your assertion

that "over half of those who voted for Trump no longer support him"?

A very large proportion of Trump's supporters are retired people who are living quite comfortably on their pensions and their Social Security, and who have their healthcare needs met with coverage from Medicare. They don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves.

The (white) Evangelical Christians are another large group, whose fervency has waned very little, what with Preacher telling them every week during his sermon that Trump is an instrument of God. They will never blame him for their problems.

"Over half of those who voted for Trump no longer support him" sure sounds like wishful thinking to me.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

28. Who cares?! Fuck anyone who voted for that POS occupying the White House...

Never forget, never forgive. Fuck 'em all... and that goes for my right-wing uncle. Will never speak to him again!!

[47of74]

32. I second that motion.

[The Liberal Lion]

40. agreed

[oldlibdem]

51. what you said my friend!

I have trumpophile relatives that I wouldn't piss on their heads if their brains were on fire!

[GoneOffShore]

65. If they are Tr**Putinista's they've had their brains removed.

If breathing wasn't automatic, they would die.

[SammyWinstonJack]

58. At the end of the day, it's all the fault of the Deplorables. I loathe them

more than I do tRUMP. Fuck 'em all!

[hurple]

93. Yeah!

I'm with you! I'll never speak to your right-wing uncle again!

[certainot]

59. trump's base is greatly exaggerated, magnified by 1500 coordinated radio stations

and those have been following limbauh's lead for 30 years

limbaugh just proved he's the true leader of the cons and hopefully media will follow up on that instead of continuing the stupidity of ignoring talk radio

a lot of trump voters were secondary and tertiary recipients of that propaganda operation just cause the buzz is so loud ubiquitous and most importantly, unchallenged and basically invisible to those most hurt by it. many of his voters picked up that buzz on clinton and dems and were too lazy or stupid or busy to work to get the truth/facts. and then they got trolled on all those same talk radio memes and with fox putting blond perms and block heads on it, and with media generally really fucking stupid about talk radio his hard core base of dittoheads got very exaggerated.

and mueller might find out putin's been using limbaugh to steer talk radio for the last decade, and maybe trump's paying hannity with real estate laundered money etc

[DENVERPOPS]

67. Limbaugh

Limbaugh didn't get that round mouth from sucking on his cigars. LOL
"So many Repubs, so little time....."

Sorry, I despise that Oxycodone addicted POS. AND he had the audacity to say on one of his programs, "I lost my hearing and I have my suspicions that Hillary had something to do with it" All doctors KNOW how he lost his hearing. Permanent hearing loss is a common side effect of consuming massive amounts of opiate oxycodone..

[lunatica]

61. It's right to request corroboration and proof but

you are making declarative statements about Trump’s base too, and without any links either. Is that wishful thinking?

[Mariana]

70. You're right, of course.

Those statements have been backed up many times on DU, but I'll do it again.

The majority of older voters cast ballots for Trump:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/631231/voter-turnout-of-the-exit-polls-of-the-2016-elections-by-age/nyon

That retired Trump voters don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves is evident by their votes for Trump.

The majority of Christian voters (overall) cast ballots for Trump. Among white evangelicals, it was 81%:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/how-the-faithful-voted-a-preliminary-2016-analysis/

White evangelical support for Trump hasn't waned much:
https://www.prri.org/spotlight/white-evangelical-support-for-donald-trump-at-all-time-high/

[lunatica]

74. Right on!

I stand corrected! Thanks.

[DownriverDem]

75. About Medicare

Folks who support Medicare for all don't seem to know how Medicare works. Part A covers the hospital & Part B covers part of the rest. So then you have to buy a supplemental policy to cover the part that Medicare A & B doesn't cover. I know folks who can't afford the supplemental policy. Medicaid is helpful to them.

[Mariana]

77. We're talking about the composition of Trump's base.

I suspect most retired Trump voters can easily afford their supplemental policies, or get them paid for as part of their retirement benefits.

[pazzyanne]

91. You might be interested to know that the tRump supporters that I know personally

do not have a sweet life. They don't get medical care because they can't afford it. My own brother who was a tRump supporter passed away a year ago because he wouldn't "take a handout (Medicaid)". He is not the only one who did/ is doing this. tRump supporters are usually low education and work jobs where they do not have retirement other than Social Security. Remember the slogans of the teabaggers when they first appeared? Most of them dealt with cutting taxes that support social programs and then in the next breath they were shouting keep your hands off my Medicare and Social Security. There is something wrong with how their brains are wired, but assuming that they are living a life of ease is naïve.

[demigoddess]

94. husband and I are retired etc and we voted for Hillary!

[Mariana]

97. We're not retired yet, hoping to be there soon.

We voted the same way as you. It's a shame we aren't the majority (of older voters I mean - I know Hillary got the most votes overall).

[Midnight Writer]

112. I agree, Mariana. His approval ratings have been fairly consistent. I don't see much loss in support

Perhaps there is erosion, a crumbling of support beneath the surface. But from my purely anecdotal experience, with lots of daily contact with Trumpists, I don't see it.

[olegramps]

35. The top Republicans knew he was totally unqualified and mentally unstable.

He told them if you don't support me then I will run as an independent. They capitulated and allowed him to blackmail them. The same tactics that he used over and over in his business dealings. He was so damn crooked that the America banks would not do business with him so he turned to the Russians mafia for financing.

He even said that if he lost the election he would not automatically concede and claimed that if he lost that it would be do to fraud effectively saying that he was willing to start a revolution if he lost. If he is removed from office it seems that he could very well encourage armed resistance. Basically his supporters are people who have been left behind by globalism and automation that will only intensify as artificial intelligence takes hold.

The days when person with only a high school education or even less could find gainful employment in factories is long gone and will not return. It is a major problem and one that we have failed to address. Between 1970 and 2015 (the latest study) among American men with only a high school education the employment had fallen from 98% to 85% and for those with less education, from 94% to 79%. This does not even take into account those who had to take on minimal wage jobs. This is Trump's constituency and possible army and it is growing every day that it remains unchallenged with a solution. It is only natural that they are ready to listen to anyone who can make them believe that they can turn back the clock, but the situation is only going to worsen. It is not limited to the United States but is global problem and feeding the march toward nationalism and disaster.

[Perseus]

41. "He told them if you don't support me then I will run as an independent."

Here is another reason why republicans, and I mean republican policy makers, are so stupid, and so in love with power even when it hurts them. This clown would have never won as an independent.

[royable]

71. If he'd run as an independent he would have split the vote

And the democrats would have won. The republicans gave us drumpf rather than allow democrats to win.

[Rabrrrrrr]

80. The GOP hatred for Hillary is so ramped up they'd rather burn their house down than let her in.

Basically.

Colluding with an evil man simply because he wasn't Hillary.

[MyOwnPeace]

129. Bingo - you got it!

They hold their nose while they get their "agenda policies" passed - and when they are done with him (like being in danger of losing their own jobs) it'll be time to declare, "He's not doing us any good anymore - time for him to go."
And when he goes there will be no Republicans crying - just the Trumpanazis.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

83. K&R. Well said, Ole Gramps.

I watched the mass brain-washing begin back in Nixon's days and it has not yet stopped. If we could start tomorrow with no more right-wing lies and propaganda and then de-program all of them, it would take decades to just get back to the mental balance we had in the 50s. Because of human denial and pride, most of these folks will never change substantially and will carry their mental affliction to the grave.

It's hard to be positive in this environment, with Faux News and talk radio still blasting bullshit every day.

Thanks for sharing and have a good holiday......from another Ole Gramps.......

[olegramps]

120. Same to you and all mankind who are dedicated to a better world for all.

Unfortunately the depth of the hypocrisy of the Republicans is so dense you could cut it with a knife. They claim to be followers of Jesus and spit on his teaching with their greed and hatred of those struggling to survive. I really hope their is a hell and they are held accountable, but fear it is only another myth and they will never suffer for their hypocrisy. I think it would be best that we hold them accountable and dish out their reward ourselves.

[Eliot Rosewater]

88. None of that is accurate as far as I am concerned. His voters are NOT unemployed, for the most part

Nor have half of them stopped supporting him.

[olegramps]

121. You are welcome to your opinion, but I am inclined to go with the facts.

[Eliot Rosewater]

123. Whoa, WHAT facts? Links please to these FACTS that half of his supporters are

now gone and the rest are, well let's quote it again

Over half of those who voted for Trump no longer support him. His base may threaten civil war

but most of his base have been unemployed for the last 18 months, drugged out, sick, and too remote from modern civilization. They will end up in a circular shooting match with themselves and imagined boogiemen.

LINKS please!

[olegramps]

124. Are you responding to me or someone else. I didn't post anything about Republicans leaving.

[TSheehan]

95. More truth to this than many might believe.

[guruoo]

111. I'm now finding it harder to find anyone that will admit voting for him nt

[mnhtnbb]

2. It's the self destructive aspect

of Trumpsters that is so worrisome. People who should have known better voted for him anyway.

We're headed for some terrible times in this country.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

31. Not of we nominate a progressive champion in 2020... it won't even be close!

We'll throw that traitor out of office on his stanky ass and get this country turned around.

[Ligyron]

60. We certainly, absolutely and most positively will!

But metaphorically speaking, there will be blood

[UniteFightBack]

3. I'm not afraid of these rump voters.....we will overwhelm them. I say bring it on! We will

DESTROY them.

[lambchopp59]

22. Actually they'll destroy themselves.

I'm going to share one wicked observation here from the profession I practice and have been astounded at the scope of the western U.S. methamphetamine epidemic.
I dealt with one of them just a few days ago. Spitting mad at the "mexicans ruining 'Murica". This coming from someone in a MAGA hat, so covered with meth sores, rotten teeth and insufferable halitosis, who could no more be hired to fry a burger aside from
any noble professional service.
That and the nearing-90 year old presbycerebral ones who can barely handle their own bathroom issues aside from work out complex issues. But still religiously believe Donald Trump to be an honest man.
As for the few that simply have anger issues, these are the roads they're on, paved with bad intentions.
Meantime, I agree, we MUST GOTV, every time.

[SWBTATTReg]

73. I agree lambchop, w/ the meth epidemic. My mom lives in the Ozarks (really rural part too) and...

despite efforts to get her to move (dad's gone) to the city, she won't. There are constant stories of meth busts all around the area too, as well as people done in by overdoses. I worry that one of them ('meth head' is going to break in and rob my Mom). Oh well, I can worry but won't do any good. As long as my mom is careful...by the way, she is a HRC fanatic in the middle of rump country.

Take care lambchopp59!

[The Genealogist]

108. There are lots of drug problems in the Ozarks, unfortunately.

It is a major problem in this area of the country. The current way of handling the problem doesn't work. I hope you can keep working on your mother to get her out of her situation.

[DontBooVote]

33. Agreed. Indeed, it needs to happen. They are evil. And...

...evil must be destroyed.

We are the good ones. We are the true Christians. We are the truly charitable and caring ones. We are the true patriots. We are the true defenders of the Constitution. We are the true Americans

They are polar opposites from us. That means they are evil. Good must triumph over evil. We must defend our country and our Constitution against these domestic enemies. It is our duty.

It's really just that simple.

[The Liberal Lion]

43. I am an atheist

But I agree with you. Evil is not to be tolerate nor given any room to breathe. It is to be destroyed and done so mercilessly.

[certainot]

81. they're not evil they just more sex on the wrong brain than liberals

the sowb causes an irrational need to avoid uncertainty so they scare easier. when they have it bad they get addicted to certainty. since nothing is certain they have to create it or find someone like trump or limbaugh to ladle it down their throats. they end up living in a simplified world where they can constantly judge in absolutes - good bad, right wrong, black and white - to create certainty and ease the fear.

that's authoritarianism, a symptom of sex on the wrong brain

&feature=youtu.be

[Ciaphas Cain]

87. Fire and fury

There's going to be a sequel by a different author

Twice as fiery four times as furious

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. That really is the most disturbing part of all of this.

Yes, Trump is a colossal douche; he's a racist, a misogynist, an ignorant narcissist, a con man with a mean streak a mile wide. But there are a lot of assholes in the world. The really scary part is that millions of people wanted as their president someone who shouldn't even be the chairman of a two-bit condo association. Some people just bought the con because they're dumb and ignorant; others obviously considered his weapons-grade character flaws to be features rather than bugs. Either way, this is how bad people assume power. Hitler couldn't have been Hitler without a lot of help. I can only hope that those of us who didn't buy the con - and we are the majority - can grab the reins again before the whole thing goes over a cliff.

[maddiemom]

29. And this is why we supposedly have a safeguard known as the Electroral College...

when we go with the popular vote for every other elective public office.

[dawg day]

42. Except that the "safeguard" was enacted to "safeguard" slavery...

and it's always been used perniciously, and still is. The majority of voters in 2000 and 2016 voted against the ones became president. The electoral college elected the two worst presidents in living memory-- both, not surprisingly, very rich Republicans. That would make it seem like a safeguard against democracy, not OF democracy.

The fact that a lot of what Marx would call "the lumpen proletariat" (mostly white) go for the rich Republican with all these connections to the corporate power structure just means that this same group is uniquely gullible to those who oppose the voters' well-being. They always have been willing to believe the rich and powerful as long as the rich and powerful want to oppress especially non-whites.

[yonder]

68. +1.

[Nasruddin]

76. The Civil War

"the lumpen proletariat" (mostly white) go for the rich Republican with all these connections to the corporate power structure just means that this same group is uniquely gullible

If you take away the "Republican" and replace with "land owner", you have exactly what happened in the
Civil War in the south. (Slightly different cast of characters in the north, but not all that different.)

[Eliot Rosewater]

5. I have been saying the same thing, I am worried too.

I might add between your post count and the time you have been a member here tells me you dont post every time any ole thing pops into your head, like I do and some others. But that you post rarely and when you do it is meaningful.

So while I agree with you we should have concern and I highly respect your opinion, I am HOPING we are wrong. My concern isn't as much with the rank and file deplorable assholes, but how many of them are police and national guard? And if the assholes act up how many police and national guard will JOIN them instead of stop them?

If there are a bunch of them then there will be problems, guaranteed.

[UpInArms]

14. I was taught ... plan for the worst

Hope for the best

[Scarsdale]

16. Watching the political shows this morning,

Chris Christie and Mulvaney BOTH defended tRump. Neither of them had any use for him previously, why the change? Mulvaney called him a "terrible human being" not so long ago, now he is working for him in the WH. Christie was the butt of many of tRump's "jokes", now he is onboard. This is scary.

[shockey80]

20. You are correct.

I have been a member of DU for many years. Most, if not all of my posts started when Trump was elected. I instantly new this was different. I new all of our lives were in danger.

I fucking hated bush, but I never thought he would destroy my country, all of our lives. I hated him because he lied about Iraq and he committed war crimes (torture).

[Rocky888]

52. I have police, firemen connections through family.

We should all be worried. I am seeing a following by people I’ve known for 4 decades who I’ve considered sensible, intelligent people. But somehow, they have completely blocked out the truth of his catastrophic plans or lack of.

I’m 60 y.o. And every day thankful I’m older because the future scares me.

[DUgosh]

6. I agree

For my own health & wellness I need to avoid stress - I can no longer have relationships with those who willingly choose to be Russian assets

[elmac]

7. I blame stupidity and the heavy use of mind altering prescription drugs, easy to brainwash. nt

[lambchopp59]

25. and non-prescription. The hoardes of meth addicts here in the western U.S.A.

have a penchant for hatemongering, and wear MAGA hats.

[watoos]

8. People didn't vote for Trump, some did,

but they voted against a Democrat. A Democrat who was demonized by the right wing corporate controlled M$M, and by social media. I swear to god just yesterday I saw an anti-Hillary sticker on a car.

It looks like that hole in her tongue healed up nicely.

[MLAA]

26. In my opinion, a large percentage of them voted for racism and misogyny

[Oppaloopa]

66. True

[Amishman]

119. Mostly I see Trump as a complete rejection of progressive liberalism

You see this now with all the people who are more interested in 'pwning the libs' than actual success or growth. They love Trump and shout MAGA because Trump antagonizes us so much, not out of fondness for Trump himself.

[oldlibdem]

57. my neighbor still bitches about her.

I'm working in my yard and I hear him shouting to the other neighbor about pizzagate!? I have never talked to him personally and never will. He is in his 80's and suspect he won't make it to the 2020 presidential election.

[sfwriter]

9. Rwanda, Yugoslavia, Cambodia...

There are lots of historical models for Civil War that I think are more likely. When one group decides it shall never compromise and must cleanse itself of threats to its identity, War is inevitable. I felt this in the pit of my stomach since Sarah Palin opened her mouth and these rubes cheered. They have only become more sure, better armed, and more violent. Luckily, no politician has yet directly called upon their violence as a tool. Trump could be the man to do it. He has come close.

Personally, I would love to see them tangle with the 82nd airborne, but I suspect the violence will be more diffuse, House to house, neighbor to neighbor, targeting the weak and marginal. They aren’t historically well organized.

The picture in my head is of a cleansing war on their part targeting intellectuals and minorities. A war of diffuse suburban rings of violence surrounding besieged city centers. A war of burning neighborhoods and highwaymen.

But we aren’t there yet. It’s just a fear, not a prediction.

[shockey80]

12. Things could spin out of control in foreign policy, an unintended war.

This is what has happened many times throughout history. When people do something so stupid ,sometimes you cannot control the results. Voting for Trump was an act of madness. We may not be able to control the results. No one can predict the results.

We are on a dangerous voyage and nobody knows where we are going.

[ProudLib72]

15. I agree with you on the diffuse fighting part. That's what gives me solace

Because I disagree with you that Rump has not called on his minions to be violent. He certainly told them to physically assault people at his rallies (and they did). Remember the "Wall of Meat" that was going to protect the president from all the protestors at the inauguration? I believe that was the closest we have come to true brown shirts. Yet that zeal seems to be quite diminished now, and I sincerely doubt that any single pro-Rump group is capable of finding volunteers in the numbers needed to pose a real threat. I hope I am correct.

[The_jackalope]

39. That's exactly my expectation. Well said. nt

[47of74]

55. I no longer judge those in our side who feel the need to arm themselves

If people feel they need to be armed in the absence of a good reason not to be armed then that’s their decision as far as I’m concerned.

[lancelyons]

10. 100 percent agree. There is danger

Trump voters Where talking revolution before the election. They hate liberals and most of that has been programmed by Fox News and rush. The Christians are going along because of their hate for lgbtq and abortions. Trump could be long gone and America will still have these people. I think we need to eliminate Fox News and that hateful propaganda and reprogram these people.

[watoos]

30. Every other cable news network and ABC and CBS, all push the right wing narratives.

Some networks like msnbc drift from the narrative but other than that all they all do is put a progressive slant on right wing narratives. Without a right wing M$M Trump would be under impeachment by now. Without a right wing M$M, GOP Congressmen would not be giving Trump cover. Well, except for the Freedumb caucus and a few others.

[louis c]

11. Trump Supporters Have No Balls

Look at the most recent uprisings. either the left or the right.

Trump's base is white males over 50 without a college education. Most uprisings occur out of college campuses. They revolve around people who are economically of racially discriminated against. Mostly minorities. Look at the 1960's and 70's. college students. The young. African Americans. That's where the demonstrations and riots came from.

The Tea Baggers were an astro-turf bullshit group. There will be no revolution from people with walkers. They'll complain to talk show hosts, but there will be no civil war.

Trump voters are cowards. When his fall comes, they will be the asshole at the end of the bar spouting conspiracy theories and vowing never to vote again. Good.

[Grasswire2]

56. Incels, lots of them. nt

[KrazyinKS]

13. I am still fascinated by the Germans

I had an uncle that was in the battle of the bulge and he would defend them and said may were kind and good people to him during that time. I do not get it, they followed that guy into the pits of hell. I keep thinking about a great uncle of mine that was in Shermans March on Georgia, has a map of it on his gravestone. My mother would just shake her head and say how bloody it was, no bragging. I do not get it, they are following these guys into the pits of hell.

[Aristus]

36. The Germans of the 1930's had grown up in a society of rigid discipline

and unquestioning obedience. They traded the Kaiser for a limp, listless, and ineffective form of democracy. Governmental malaise and fear of Communist uprisings spurred them to follow a madman who told them what they wanted to hear. And their innate obedience and their bourgoise desire for law and order kept them loyal to Hitler until it was too late.

Americans are too individualistic, too rambunctious, and too conditioned to seeing national leaders as figures of ridicule to ever go over, heart and soul, to a Hitler. Or even a Trump. His vile, squalid supporters are making up with volume what they lack in numbers.

[Major Nikon]

50. Fascism was a world-wide phenomena at the time

The same hate that fueled Germany existed all over the world. Antisemitism and the Red Scare was alive and well in the US. The biggest difference was Germany was farther along with it and in the epicenter of the strongest sentiments. Certainly conformism to authority didn't help Germany, but the idea that it can't happen here I don't think is very good.

Neo-fascism is growing in the US and the parallels to Germany in the 1930's shouldn't be ignored. It's going to take constant vigilance to keep it from gaining even more power. When the WH is able to appoint no-shit neo-fascists to high level positions, you can be sure this type of shit has already gained a foothold.

[Power 2 the People]

17. His election was a call to "Make America White Again" and that's why the mob voted for him

Fear,scapegoating and hatred sell and he was the perfect salesman.

[lunatica]

69. Almost the first words out of his mouth after declaring his run for President

were that Mexicans crossing the border are rapists. He sure advertised his intentions that day, and he has followed through blatantly in his treatment of undocumented children and their parents.

Why would we be surprised? He never made a secret of what his intentions were.

[Kurt V.]

18. k&r

[Mr. Ected]

19. When I read some of these responses, I can only think a lot of you live in blue country

Your assessment of what comprised a Trump voter and what continues to constitute a Trump supporter is far too one-dimensional, relying on stereotypes and snap judgments. I live in the reddest of red territories in rural north Georgia. In these parts, progressives are far and few between. Dems don't even run for office here. We don't express our political views for fear of being ostracized; our families and livelihood would be threatened. I am not exaggerating. You know these people, so you KNOW I'm not exaggerating.

When you're all but surrounded by these types, it's amazing how "normal" they behave when politics are not discussed. They're married, they've got kids, they go to ballgames, they enjoy a glass of wine, they visit you in the hospital, they send birthday cards. But you know what else they do? They go to church and get their minds polluted. They sit at the family dinner table and get their minds polluted. They listen to talk radio and watch FOX news and get their minds polluted. And you know what? They're not even aware of it. They live in a bubble where everyone thinks and believes and talks like them politically. They've been conditioned to think any contrary viewpoint is per se a lie or a distortion. They don't march around in KKK garb and they don't announce that men are more special than women, or gays are suffering from some sort of disease, or anything of the sort. But those ideas are possibly harbored in their psyches, released when common minds open the subject for discussion. I don't know. It never comes up in conversation, though I've had rare occasions where a true bigot speaks up, and everyone in the room - me the liberal and the other "conservatives" - recoil in discomfort and horror.

I'm not condoning them at all. Nor am I proud to keep silent when the stakes are so high. I wish I lived in a blue area, where I could openly speak my mind without fear of reprisal. But I'm stuck where I am and I take to the underground to maintain my safety and my income.

I guess my point is, Trump supporters aren't all dumb and they're not all KKK material; rather, they are a cult perpetuated generationally through their families, their churches, their communities, and maintained by a steady diet of propaganda and half-truths.

[shockey80]

24. A lot of good , smart, German people followed Hitler.

A lot of good smart, people in the South committed treason.

[Mr. Ected]

82. Oddly enough, my mother was brought up in wartime Germany

Many of my forebears were "true believers", until the totality of the truth was revealed.

I don't disagree with a word you're saying.

[Raastan]

34. + 1

I am from Indiana and you are describing my experience exactly.

[watoos]

37. My 85 year old golfing buddy,

is a Korean war vet, still does military funerals, used to do Meals on Wheels, will do anything for me and he knows I'm a liberal Democrat. Yes I live in the middle of them too in central Pa. But he is also a misogynist, bigot. I only found out because I play golf with him all the time. He told me one day, "what was the day that will go down in infamy," I said Pearl Harbor, he said no, the day they gave women the right to vote. He then said my granddaughter isn't too bad, she hates minorities. He hates minorities, gays, transgenders, women, other than that, he's the nicest guy in the world.

[misanthrope]

109. So did he deliver Meals on Wheels to people who belonged to ethnic minorities?

What about the military funerals? Are any of those deceased veterans or their families minority members?

[The Liberal Lion]

46. I understand what it means to live in a "red" area

and I empathize with your experience.

[Boomer]

48. Thank you for that truth

I have in-laws who are Trump supporters, and they're very much as you describe. They are kind, generous and compassionate... to members of their own tribe. They are "decent" family people living among other "decent" family people who look exactly like them, talk like them, think like them. They live in working class and middle class areas and their surface values are no different than my own. But when faced with any kind of challenge to their bubble-world, they can get very ugly.

It's that context-driven aspect of their personalities that's so confusing and infuriating. People who would give you the shirt off their back if you were in need, are the ones who embrace MAGA with fervor. They won't extend their values beyond their tribe. There's a sharp divide between Us and Them, and all their Christian virtues are only considered relevant within the circle of Us.

[misanthrope]

110. That has been a lot of my own experience

As long as you're not considered "other," it's all good.

[Lars39]

62. Good summary!

[LovingA2andMI]

86. Sorry, not Sorry....

Drump supporters are Racists POS's. Period.

[Butterflylady]

23. Also a huge lover of all history, I know that everyone of histories

tyrants and dictators go down in flames. The only thing I worry about is how many will suffer before that happens.

[Comatose Sphagetti]

27. I'm a former Behavioral Health Professional.

Way to much emphasis on, "They're dumb, stupid," etc. etc. No, they're not.
It is a sickness.
Well said.

[watoos]

44. They are certainly not critical thinkers.

Also, they are more prone to fear. Someone did a study and found that "conservative's area of the brain that controls fear is more pronounced. They are more likely to believe conspiracy theories. Hate radio certainly doesn't help to alleviate their fear.

[Comatose Sphagetti]

47. Yep.

Right-wing authoritarian followers. Waaaaay down on the critical thinking/self awareness scale.
I believe the study you're referring to is by Altemeyer; "The Authoritarians." Fascinating and illuminating read.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

92. Something of a paradox, that.

Most of them that I know well require an authoritarian structure for their mental stability; that is (for example, top-down): God, their preacher, revered parents/grandparents, political leaders and business leaders, their boss at work, etc.

And yet their libertarian strand preaches individualism and total self-sufficiency with every breath.

Seems contradictory to me.......

[Comatose Sphagetti]

103. It is contradictory. It is compartmentalized thinking. It is delusion/denial.

To question that authoritarian structure you mention is super scary (fear). We're talking about questioning/disagreeing with generations of familial/cultural dogma and most just won't do it. Again, out of fear.
Critical thinking/self awareness is so important. It is the key. But it takes courage.

[JudyM]

118. Until constraints are imposed on hate radio/tv this will get worse. No true marketplace of ideas

can take place if lies are being blared like this.

[backscatter712]

106. Willful ignorance. And I have zero respect for them.

As far as I'm concerned, they're pure fucking scum. They're not stupid, they're evil.

[Enoki33]

38. The real threat will probably come from the armed militia groups.From

the white supremacists who seek racial and political purity. Any downturn in the economy will only magnify the situation where these white militants see themselves as not personally achieving economic parity, and so ignorantly blame immigrants and PoC. These racist people will violently respond to any such a call from the criminal-in-charge. If that happens, l have to believe it will be short lived. The vast majority of us are good people. Also, as one astute member here has reminded me, the fraud leader has likely lost the respect of our military by his actions and behavior.

[Akacia]

45. From my dealings with family members who voted for Trump

they voted against the Liberals and Hillary not so much for the orange thing. They have a hatred for Democrats blaming us for all their life defeats! In fact I just got off the phone with my mom and she was spitting out venom against the Democrats in her neighborhood blaming them for uncontrolled growth along the front range in Colorado where she lives, among other things that made no sense. My mom used to be a Democrat and changed over the abortion issue. I am not sure when she became so very brainwashed as I moved away 30 years ago but know that she is impossible to reason with anymore. I have pretty much given up trying to talk with her or my sisters about anything political because it just ends up in a battle. There is no reasoning with them. I miss my family but cannot stand to listen to the crap that they spew anymore.

[Izzy Blue]

78. Interesting that she changed to the Republican Party

over the abortion issue when it was a Republican SCOTUS that passed it in 1973.
Curious what year she switched?

[Akacia]

84. Im not really sure myself.

She has always been strongly against abortion and in recent years has turned very evangelical. She started working in a religious book store a few years ago and has been difficult to talk to over since. There was a time when she was reasonable to talk to but no longer. She is filled with hateful rhetoric sounding like Fox news. Needless to say we are no longer close and although it saddens me I do not wish to be around so much hatred towards others. I hope someday she comes around but...

[Izzy Blue]

98. So sad becaue one can be against abortion without the hatefilled religious talking points

I read a good article awhile back that was right on about 99.9% of pro-lifers.
They're not pro-lifers they're pro-birthers as facts prove that they don't give 2 shits about the child after they're born.

I am sincerely sorry for you that this is where religion took your mom and it usually doesn't stop with abortion.
Good for you being wise enough not to be involved with her toxicity.

Enjoy the holidays!

[Initech]

100. The scary thing is that a lot of their hatred is being fueled by social media.

And it's a perpetual cycle of hate and fear that is fueling them. What I want to know is what is making them so angry? And what do they hope to accomplish in all of this by supporting the most incompetent buffoon ever elected?

[Anon-C]

127. Yep!

[Perseus]

49. The one reason I am and am not worried about it

I am worried because there will be unnecessary blood shed.

I am not worried because there is more of us than them, there is more brain power on our side than their side and our side also has guns, they don't have an advantage on that. The other reason I don't worry is because I don't think the military will allow this to happen, they will be made to run, lots of them will die and lots of them will go to jail.

The orange guy has many times talked about his base getting angry and revolting, he wants that, so yes it may happen, but nothing good for them will come out of it. And when the orange idiot incites that kind of violence he will, on top of all the charges, be sent with his base to jail.

[BlueJac]

53. k&R

[barbtries]

54. they are members of a cult of personality.

and i agree wholeheartedly, they are sick. fox news and other right wing hate media have made the country sick. and then there are the republicans, unapologetically sociopathic anti-democratic greedy powermeisters. we are pretty thoroughly fucked.

[elocs]

63. Perhaps some of those tens of million who voted for Trump never thought he would really win.

Like feeling free to write in 'Mickey Mouse' because you're sure he won't win so it won't make any difference.
How many on the Left were so certain that Trump never had a chance to win so it gave them permission not to vote at all or to vote for a third party candidate like Stein, who received more votes in Wisconsin than Trump's margin of victory here?

What percentage of the population does it take to create a violent insurrection? How does it benefit us to treat that possibility as a joke?

The battle lines in America have been drawn as each tribe moves to their extremes, each viewing their opposite side as the enemy. If this were a 3rd world nation with as many guns as we have, one would expect a civil war, but I think at this point even if many Americans view the other side as enemies they are still too comfortable to risk losing their way of life.

[GoneOffShore]

64. Let's not let it happen.

Werner Hertzog tweeted in 2017 - Dear America: You are waking up, as Germany once did, to the awareness that 1/3 of your people would kill another 1/3, while 1/3 watches.

[RKP5637]

72. tRump, has managed to gather all of those as mentally disturbed as he under one tent, and they

magnify each others sicknesses. I think many of them will eventually self-destruct as they have so many issues going on beyond tRump.

[Grumpy Old Woman]

79. Re-Educating Trump Voters?

Often I wonder if the problem with "Trump Voters" is that they just haven't had a chance to learn that there are different ways of thinking. (I guess you call that 'the bubble').

I spent part of my growing-up in a small town in Southern California where, as far as I know, there was only one African American family. There were a few native Americans, and a few people with Mexican heritage, but the majority of the residents were white, Anglo-Saxon Protestants and Catholics. There were fifty people in my high school graduating class.

I have been lucky, since then, to have seen part of the world, and to meet people from different backgrounds, so I know that not everyone thinks alike.

I have often wondered if the problem with people with the mindset of Trump Voters is that they just haven't been exposed to other points of view and people who are different from themselves. How about

1. Encouraging alternate news sources besides radical right garbage like Fox news,
2. Donating subtly left-leaning childrens' books to their libraries,
3. Offering them all-expense trips to other parts of the world,
4. Not keeping our mouths shut when they say something we disagree with.

I realize all of these things are easier to say than to do. As Emily Levine says "I have fantasies, they are like goals, but they don't require as much work."

Anyway, I don't think we should refuse to talk to them and cut them off entirely. As has been expressed by many previous posters, many of these people are good people. I think they are just uneducated.

Now I will retreat back under my rock.

[jmbar2]

85. Agree with you

We cannot afford to write off so many fellow Americans. Personally, I've had some success getting to know folks, and then slowly introducing conversations that caused them to step outside the right wing tropes. Here are some ideas:

You know what amazes me?

Racism I
I am a jazz fan. Some people consider jazz the "classical music" of African American culture. Structurally, the math of jazz is every bit as complex as Bach. But instead of writing the music out, they are composing it on the spot. It takes a special kind of genius to do that. Rap is similar - poetry composed on the spot. how do you just compose music on the spot like that?

Racism II
After the civil war, millions of former slaves were suddenly "free" to make a living without any resources, homes, education, while still being terrorized by nightriders. If you were just dropped off on the side of the road at that time with nothing, what would you have done to survive?

Socialism
What countries outside of the US are closest to your ideal of the perfect place to live? (In most cases, it will be the more socialist countries). What makes it good? What are the worst countries of the world. What makes them so bad? (Usually lack of rule of law, lack of democracy). So if you had to design the perfect country, it would include [socialist elements] + democracy + rule of law? How are we doing in America?

Immigration
Nearly every morsel of food we eat is grown, cultivated, picked, and processed by immigrants, legal and illegal. Some of the food production jobs are really disgusting - hog farms, chicken processing, etc. How do you think the food supply will change when immigrants can't come in? You can look on Indeed.com for food processing jobs and see the number of ads. It takes several million people to raise and produce our food. I don't think I could grow and slaughter a pig. Could you?

If you make these conversations totally nonpolitical - a challenge to their creativity while avoiding opportunities to fall back on RW preset responses, it can be very enjoyable. I have had hard-core Limbaugh fans thank me for such an enjoyable conversation.

The key is to frame topics and questions in ways that don't have prefab rightwing answers.

We can't turn all of them. But I believe with friendly contact over time, and interesting conversations, you can turn some of them.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

90. K&R. Thanks Grumps and welcome to DU.

I agree with your thinking and still believe we can also make inch-by-inch headway by subtly planting seeds of doubt in those who have been brain-washed. A significant percentage of them still can conduct rational thought. After the bills come due for the Republican tax cut and with a bit of critical thinking, some of them may turn around. That's called progress!

Grumpy Old Man (farm town graduating class of around 40 in 1965).........

[pazzyanne]

89. "Tens of millions of Americans voted for a man that was clearly mentally ill."

Don't forget to add that they ignored his personal history from the late 1960's through his campaign. Seems that "political correctness" is their battle cry, and tRump is the perfect leader - for them!

[rwsanders]

96. I've been reading an interesting series on Truthdig.com

Called American History for Truthdiggers.
According to the author, Andrew Jackson was pretty much just as horrible and was elected due to a cult of personality rather than a rational evaluation of qualifications.
Sad thing is that the stakes now are much higher and stupid and crazy seem to be the social norm. The next election should be quite the ride, buckle up!

[IAMSPARTICUS]

99. buckle up

from the day he was "elected" i said the country would not survive. i think he's going to do something terrible before the dems take over....TERRIBLE. hope i'm wrong.

[rwsanders]

125. He's crazy enough to try it and sadly there are too many in the government and military...

that support him. Which is why while I was in, I constantly stated there was a need for true civil rights training. Not for the member, but for the rights of the public. Made me sick to hear a reserve officer who is also a federal marshal talk about Michael Brown like he did something to deserve to be shot in the back. Should have been enough to have him removed from both jobs.
But he got promoted. Not surprised after I saw an article on Truthdig on an issue I hadn't heard about, that USCG vessels have been called "Guantanamo on the water".

[Prof.Higgins]

101. Spot on. They constitute a diabolical mob of cognitive dissonance. N/T

[MRDAWG]

102. Limbaugh Hannity and others have taught listners to hate the government. They only...........

want the destruction of what they hate. That is why they don't care about Trump's crimes etc.

[meow2u3]

104. The media also played a pretty outsized role

The news media was all Trump, all the time. Ya know why? The execs boasted that Trump was good for their ratings!

So Trump turned out to be a monster of the media's creation and AFAIK, only some MSNBC pundits on Politics Nation admitted it.

[tiredtoo]

105. OF the middle aged white men i know who voted for trump

60-80 percent have begrudgingly expressed remorse.

[dhol82]

114. Interesting

What do they now think we can do to undo the morass we are in now?

[tiredtoo]

116. They haven't reached that point yet

At least not to the point where they will share it with me. One has shared joy with the outcome of last election.

[pansypoo53219]

107. indeed. but they are the MINORITY. even if they are loud.

[The Wizard]

113. Since its inception

Pox News has been dedicated to a line of propaganda that characterizes all who are not Republican as mortal enemies that must be eliminated. It was / is no accident that Trump rallies mirror Hitler's hate filled torch light parades. Remember some Nazis are "very fine people."
Pox and hate radio are democracy's greatest threats, Pox more so because of the imagery combined with bells and whistles that appeal to the weak minds so susceptible to propaganda. They have cultivated a culture of professional victims who will act against their own best interests because of the appeal to the worst fears and lowest instincts. There is a good reason they vilify education and critical thinking. The ignorant and fearful are easily swayed by the bells and whistles.
Our best chance is to motivate normal people to get out and vote.
Remember Trump will always be a minority president. We are in danger because of minority rule. Our system has been gamed by unscrupulous vile immoral charlatans who prey on the weakest among us.

[jimlup]

115. You are absolutely correct. The only thing going in sanities favor is that Trump is stupid

but unfortunately, that might not be enough to save humanity, the country and the planet

[LibDemAlways]

117. Many voted for him because his slogan

appealed to them....Make America Great Again. Simple minded slogan for the simple minded rightwing media devotees who fear Muslims, African Americans, Hispanics, the entire LGBTQ community, and on and on. These scared white people dream of going back to a time that exists only in their minds, and they somehow think a wall is the answer. What it all boils down to is that you can't fix stupid, and there's a lot of mindless stupidity in this country.

[Paladin]

122. I'll continue to vote and support Democratic candidates.

But the 2016 election effectively destroyed my love of this country. If America ever regains its decency and world stature, I'm confident it won't happen until after I'm dead and gone.

[oasis]

126. Shitload of Deplorables!

Millions and millions. Ugh

Rational human beings on our planet are being held hostage to the whims of these mindless robots.

[Hassler]

128. A bunch of decrepit, stale, pale males won't last long.