Are Democrats losing the framing on the shutdown issue?

[kentuck]

I think that maybe they are?

First of all, they allowed themselves to be brought into negotiations over an issue which they had nothing to do with. Republicans are in charge of House, Senate, and White House and Democrats allowed Mitch McConnell to frame the issue as between Trump and the Democrats.

In my opinion, they would have been in a better position if they had pointed out that the Republicans and Donald Trump have control of all the government, which they do, until the Democrats take over the House on January 3rd. They cannot negotiate for the Republicans. After January the 3rd, then they can talk about what needs to be negotiated. Until then, it is all up to the Republicans.

[manor321]

1. Not that I see

And since we take the House on Jan 3rd, there is no incentive for Dems to cave.

[kentuck]

3. Yes, it would be bad if they caved before January 3rd.

But they still need to frame it for the public, in my opinion.

[Hekate]

14. There is no "caving." Chuck & Nancy have no fcks left to give. DT tried to ambush them with cameras

...and they ate his lunch for all the world to see.

[LovingA2andMI]

2. No..

Next....

[kentuck]

6. Why do you think that?

What gives you such optimism?

[dansolo]

4. Nancy did exactly what you suggest

With all the cameras rolling, Nancy told Trump exactly what you are saying they should have done. So why are you complaining?

[kentuck]

7. Do you have a link to that?

I must have missed that?

[caraher]

15. Did you really not see that bizarre meeting with Trump, Pence, Pelosi and Schumer?!

Pelosi tells him to go get the votes in the House, Trump says the trouble is needing 60 in the Senate, Pelosi says fine, you can get the ball rolling at least, Trump says that would be a waste of time...

[Hekate]

16. It was hard to miss. He invited them to "negotiate" & and ambushed them with news cameras...

They ate his lunch, took his lunch money, spanked him and sent him home. They batted him back and forth between them like a ping pong ball.

Then Nancy put on her red coat and sailed out, followed by Chuck smiling like the Cheshire Cat.

[uppityperson]

5. No. They have "pointed out that the Republicans and Donald Trump have control of all the government"

[kentuck]

8. They have still permitted McConnell to frame it as between Trump and the Democrats.

I guess we will see in the next few days.

My hope is that they do nothing but make your point until they take control of the House on the 3rd.

[uppityperson]

11. How can they stop McConnell from saying that?

[Wellstone ruled]

9. That is the MSM Narrative

that the Media wants you to believe. Remember,they the Media did everything possible to elect Trump and the Rethugs in 2016.

It is all about the money my friends.

[kentuck]

10. Of course, it's the media's narrative...

Because there is not a suitable alternative.

[Wellstone ruled]

12. We are in full Trump

reelection mode. And the Media knows where their largest payday is,and it is the Ad business for Presidential Elections.

This pattern started a few months ago,notice how certain Media Companies are no longer until news reporter review.

Even Bloomberg has backed off.

[DonaldsRump]

13. Have to agree with Kentuck, at least as to the issue being raised

The battle here is as much a PR one as it is a substantive one. The Ds need to constantly refer to Trump as a liar (nothing new, but it helps trivialize the vanity that the $5 billion demand is all about) for at least the following:

(i) about Mexico's paying for this, and
(ii) for his taking the blame, and then not taking the blame, for the shutdown.

Besides being excellent at greed and selfishness, the Rs are much better (usually) on spin that plays well to folks. The substance and the spin are totally important in most political issues, and this one is no exception.

Also, publicizing/getting the message is as important, and the Rs seemed to much better at getting the story out via search engine optimization etc. I truly hope the Ds are investing in getting to the same level on this as the Rs.

I don't know enough to say whether the Ds are losing or winning the PR battle on the "funding for the wall" issue, but they cannot lose sight of this. This is a winning issue for the Ds, but it needs to be handled correctly both substantively and spin-wise.

[kentuck]

17. Perhaps they can agree to spend a billion or so on catapults and hot flaming oil...

...to counter any horde that tries to cross the border?

They should not be negotiating anything at all. After January 3rd, then they can discuss what needs to be cut from the moron's budget.

[customerserviceguy]

18. I don't think

that the term "government shutdown" is nearly as scary-sounding as it was a few decades ago. We've had a number of them of varying lengths, and the sky has not yet fallen.

It may well be that the American public is inured to them, and they appear to frighten D. C.-types more than they do Main Street-types. It's all a matter of who suffers the most pain from an extended shutdown, and I have yet to see where Trump's base has a lot of potential angst over this.

[ismnotwasm]

19. Oh Hell no

What we are doing is calling the wall “medieval” “4th century” and talking about real border security using modern technology. Democrats framed this perfectly.

[Cha]

20. Forbes magazine gets it...

This year concludes the same way it began: with a partial shutdown of the federal government. There is no doubt that President Donald Trump is primarily responsible for this shutdown – less than two weeks ago, during a nationally televised meeting in the Oval Office, he explicitly said so himself.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211582634

Trump owns the shutdown. And he’s OK with that.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/23/government-shutdown-2018-trump-white-house-1074565

Trump’s shutdown stunt is an act of needless stupidity

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trumps-shutdown-stunt-is-an-act-of-needless-stupidity/2018/12/21/5567582c-0551-11e9-b6a9-0aa5c2fcc9e4_story.html?utm_term=.0583b1d06151

[ooky]

21. I'm not seeing that, unless I missed some news,

which is possible. But I haven't seen either Schumer or Pelosi stray from their stated positions of "no wall money". No more than they have already offered to keep the government open.