General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums“Voters can no longer believe anything they say” (NYTimes on Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan)
____ Republican attacks on President Obamas plans for Medicare are growing more heated and inaccurate by the day. Both Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan made statements last week implying that the Affordable Care Act would eviscerate Medicare when in fact the law should shore up the programs finances.
Both men have also twisted themselves into knots to distance themselves from previous positions, so that voters can no longer believe anything they say. Last week, both insisted that they would save Medicare by pumping a huge amount of money into the program, a bizarre turnaround for supposed fiscal conservatives out to rein in federal spending.
The likelihood that they would stand by that irresponsible pledge after the election is close to zero. And the likelihood that they would be better able than Democrats to preserve Medicare for the future (through a risky voucher system that may not work well for many beneficiaries) is not much better. THE ALLEGED RAID ON MEDICARE A Republican attack ad says that the reform law has cut $716 billion from Medicare, with the money used to expand coverage to low-
income people who are currently uninsured. So now the money you paid for your guaranteed health care is going to a massive new government program thats not for you, the ad warns.
What the Republicans fail to say is that the budget resolutions crafted by Paul Ryan and approved by the Republican-controlled House retained virtually the same cut in Medicare.
In reality, the $716 billion is not a cut in benefits but rather the savings in costs that the Congressional Budget Office projects over the next decade from wholly reasonable provisions in the reform law . . .
read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/opinion/sunday/truth-and-lies-about-medicare.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print
spanone
(135,795 posts)ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)The tens of millions Republicans are spending on ads with these false Medicare allegations IMO will prove counterproductive. Only low-information exclusive viewers of Fox "News"--a group already solidly in the R column--actually will believe these lies. For everyone else who views the Republican Medicare ads over and over again, the obviously false Medicare attack will cast doubt on all the other. somewhat more subtlely false, lies coming out of Boston and Republican seperPACs,
avebury
(10,951 posts)flamingdem
(39,308 posts)I'm concerned that the point is to muddy the waters. Turn voters off.
hay rick
(7,590 posts)Testing whether blatant lies and fear-mongering will be sniffed out by the majority of the electorate. It would help if the media had the character not to retreat into "some say this/some say that" coverage. We live in interesting times.
nightscanner59
(802 posts)"This is a test of the emergency broadcast system. Your local broadcaster in cooperation with federal authorities have developed this test to keep you informed in the event that you're being lied to. This is a test. This is only a test."
nanabugg
(2,198 posts)tridim
(45,358 posts)My Dad is one of the most honest people I know.
Lots of people consider honesty a personal virtue and are very scrupulous about their own conduct. Unfortunately, they often look the other way when other people (Republican politicians, for example) are doing the lying. Maybe their bad selves like the lies, even though they couldn't do it themselves. When the lies are pointed out they tend to deny or change the subject. Their honesty is passive.
Skittles
(153,122 posts)lamp_shade
(14,816 posts)part man all 86
(367 posts)Second is projection. Third is bigotry. Fourth is their version of freedom, voter ID laws, papers please, no warrants but probable cause will suffice, no taxes because money will magically appear when needed unless Democratic Party is in charge, and guns are people my friends and serfs are not.
emulatorloo
(44,072 posts)There are Republican Operatives here trying to confuse this issue too while posing as progressives - Claiming that Obama has a "Secret Plan" to destroy medicare, while totally ignoring Romney/Ryan's actual policies to kill the safety net.
FatIrishBastard
(51 posts)They think,(lol), that they're slick, but in reality...it's slime, We see it, & the stench?, We smell it, & the truth?, We have it! Oh yeah...they're the ones who get confused counting to ten. Skool?!
cleduc
(653 posts)KharmaTrain
(31,706 posts)With a billion plus dollars to do the spreading we'll see if telling non-stop lies can win elections. From my vantage point the jury is still out.
WHEN CRABS ROAR
(3,813 posts)On May 18 2012 voting on amendment number 46, of HR 4310, the National Defense Authorization Act.
Paul Ryan along with 219 other Republicans voted to.
Suspend the right of a person to to be charged with a crime when being arrested.
To know the identity of the person or persons accusing them of the crime.
To suspend their right to have a trial.
Enabling the person to be jailed forever.
Care to run that ad?
tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)Thank you for posting!
riverbendviewgal
(4,252 posts)DU people may want to pick it up.
here is the wiki site on The Healing of America" by TR Reid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Healing_of_America
The major theme of book is to contrast the health care in other developed countries with health care in the United States. Reid is critical of the United States for not being able to provide guaranteed health services to all its citizens, in a manner done in virtually all developed countries. Along with the study of various health systems, Reid also documents his attempts to get treatment for his shoulder during the journey described in the book. Reid finds suitable treatment in India, which has an out-of-pocket model, the only one Reid considers to be worse than the American system of health care.
bucolic_frolic
(43,064 posts)Romney does this because he knows the GOP/Faux/Fundamentalist
alliance believes every word because it has been drummed into their
numbskulls from Faux and the Pulpit. Seriously. I had a lady who warned
me I was going to pay 4% of my home sale to pay for "that Obamacare".
On closer inspection, the 4% is paid on CAPITAL GAINS on home sales
that are IN EXCESS of $500,000 by Couples whose TAXABLE INCOME
exceeds $250,000. But you couldn't argue with her, she listens
to Bill-O and Faux.
So when you hear from the pulpit all these social issues and you're told
repeatedly how EVIL Obama is, and how the government is coming to
take your money .... THAT is how they convince politically ignorant people
to vote against their own best economic interests.
This is what we're up against people. Get to work, go volunteer with your
County Democratic Headquarters, all campaigns need support.
Grammy23
(5,810 posts)The question is what do we work on?? We DO have choices. IMO it is usually a waste of time to try to convince the followers of Republican doctrine that there might be a flaw in what they have been told. They know what they know because they know it and believe what they believe because they believe it. Stupid to be sure but that is just about as simplistic as it gets for the true believer. I get urgent emails from some of them or see posts on FB that are laughable.....if I didn't know they really believe the crap they are told by Rush, Bill O and others. When you try to reason with them or refute what they are saying with FACTS, they just can't believe they have been fooled.
I think for myself the fight will be about helping people get proper ID for voting. We must not forget that the Republicans have a multi-pronged plan to "win" (steal, grab, rob) this election. They are not just counting on misguiding the gullible into voting for them. They also will use anything else they can use to steal or pull votes their way. The disenfranchisement of millions of voters all over the US is one of their latest methods to suppress votes and make sure their tally is the biggest.
Even Paul Ryan bringing his mother along is part of the plan. It's a powerful image and the Democrats would be wise to take heed. Who is going to question Grammaw? We need to summon our courage and be willing to "go there". Point out the hypocrisy of putting up HIS mother as an example of someone who "depends on SS and Medicare" when that is false. This lady is comfortably well off and will never face the same issues that the ordinary citizen will face if SS or Medicare (and Medicaid) are cut or discontinued. But there she is ... on stage....supposedly representing all the Senior Citizen voters. I can imagine all the old folks sitting there thinking to themselves...."Ryan would NEVER hurt his mom."
The Repubs are shameless but if that is what it takes to "win", they will do it. So we need to find ways to push back and expose their lies and misrepresentations. I'm not sure we can reach folks on FB or even face to face, but in whatever way we can find to get the truth out, we must do that.
ann---
(1,933 posts)there's no need to say all these lies to their base when they would have voted for Romney/ryan anyway. Why do they lie?
fasttense
(17,301 posts)For example there are the Christians who hate Mormons who have a tough time voting for Rmoney.
Then there are the people who need something to hang their hats on. They want to vote for Rmoney. Maybe they are rich surgeons who love money uber all. They want to hear a lie they can partially believe so they can hide the fact that their money is why they are voting for Rmoney. What are they going to say when their spouse or pastor asks them why they are voting for Rmoney? They can't just say because I'm greedy. The same goes for racists and bigots. I hear a lot of these lies from very poor - trailer living - whites. They aren't going to come out and say they are racist. They then give me all these Fox lies as if it makes their case and they aren't bigots and racists.
So, it does a lot of good to keep spewing the lies so their base has them handy to explain away their true intentions.
And then there are the stupid people who actually believe the lies.
kentuck
(111,056 posts)The New York Times says this about the Romney/Ryan Medicare plans:
"Both men have also twisted themselves into knots to distance themselves from previous positions, so that voters can no longer believe anything they say."
Lucy Goosey
(2,940 posts)...the Dems should definitely use it!
K Gardner
(14,933 posts)Third Doctor
(1,574 posts)I never beleived anything they said in the first place.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)does it seem that the media are starting to turn on the wingnuts?
Like, maybe the majority of the corporate moguls who own the media are splitting from the Koch/Tea Party/Wall Street Bankster coalition or something. Like, maybe out there somewhere are a few Harvard MBA's who remember their Machiavelli & understand the need not to drive the populace into "Nothing Left to Lose" mode.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)much like Chris Matthews. NYT editorials have been calling Romney a liar for the last couple of weeks. That is something new under the sun.
BrainMann1
(460 posts)When you have proof like this, you would think the GOP would put an end to this so called strategy
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)that most everyone else has figured out by now, still,
is nice for the "newspaper of record" to say such things.
RKP5637
(67,089 posts)destroying the country and one has to wonder after awhile just what is their intent other than the destruction of the US. Damn, Americans have to wake up as to what is going on ...
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)I've really enjoyed pushback from Sister Simone and Soledad O'Brien.
Raine
(30,540 posts)dkf
(37,305 posts)Medicare part B, C and D get about 25% of their funding from premiums and the rest is provided by the Federal Government through income taxes. The ACA is funded by taxing medical devices and penalties for too expensive plans and for not buying insurance when you can supposedly afford it. There may be other sources but most of the funding is also provided by the federal income tax.
If we don't get our budget in line they are both at risk.
Basically either the ACA and other extra spending puts Medicare at risk of being cut or Medicare puts all other programs at risk of being cut.
The fact is that Medicare is projected to increase at rates faster than GDP. So it will have to be cut or everything else will have to be cut or taxes will have to be raised every year to cover the extra amounts.
DallasNE
(7,402 posts)the reform law has cut $716 billion from Medicare, with the money used to expand coverage to low-income people who are currently uninsured.
Now, who do you suppose these unnamed low-income uninsured people are? Obviously people of color. Actually it provides premium support for the uninsured by making insurance pools available at rates they can afford. These are the very people that would turn around and lose insurance with the repeal of ACA. Providers have agreed to lower fees from Medicare precisely because these low-income people will now have insurance and be paying customers meaning those providers will be providing less free care. It is called a win-win situation and Republicans want to turn back the clock to the old lose-lose situation. ACA has bent the health care cost curve for the first time and that means Medicare monthly payments will be increasing more slowly than before while the solvency of Medicare is extended. ACA is actually working better than most expected and it really begins to kick in in 2013. Let the success continue.
King_Klonopin
(1,306 posts)I would love to see a compiled list of these kinds of code phrases.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)...looks to me like an Airbus...320 or 319 maybe.
It's the overhead bins. And how sad for the Press Masses...no inseat vid screens! Ha!
pacalo
(24,721 posts)His elderly mother was present & the soundbite from Ryan which was broadcasted was TOTALLY, BIZARRELY flip-flopped from Ryan's & Obama's stances on Medicare. Ryan claimed that it was Obama who wanted to take away from Medicare & (p/p) "we are not going to let him take Medicare away from the elderly"!
These are CROOKS who are blatantly lying. I was livid!
Yooperman
(592 posts)The only thing that has changed since I was a kid is that they just throw more shit now that they did back then.
YM
kentuck
(111,056 posts)Berlum
(7,044 posts)glad the Republicans are being called on their interminabale fusillade of lies.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Because Romney doesn't have a plan to fix ANYTHING!!
King_Klonopin
(1,306 posts)Why is it that these patent lies are obvious to some, like us here at DU,
yet are swallowed whole as Gospel truth by others?
It seems an indisputable fact, to me, that Republicans rely heavily upon
lies, distortion, manipulation, etc. because their ideology could never
prevail on its own merits. It has no merits. It has no validity.
There is no evidence to support their ideological theories. In fact,
all the evidence (objective measures) points to it being wrong.
What makes it possible for them to succeed, then, is the tendency of people to
LIE TO THEMSELVES -- to convince themselves that up is down, wrong is right --
and the absolute refusal to admit they were self-deceived (as well as led astray
by the same liars they held up as icons.)
It was said on a post this week: "Name one Republican bill/law/policy that has
benefited the middle class, working poor or poor ?"
Yup, talking to you, all of you Walmartian, Teaparty, red-staters who insist on
clinging to the delusion that voting for Republicans is in your self-interest.
When will the scales fall from your eyes?