Age Discrimination - Great Read

[malaise]

https://www.propublica.org/article/older-workers-united-states-pushed-out-of-work-forced-retirement

If You’re Over 50, Chances Are the Decision to Leave a Job Won’t be Yours
A new data analysis by ProPublica and the Urban Institute shows more than half of older U.S. workers are pushed out of longtime jobs before they choose to retire, suffering financial damage that is often irreversible.
by Peter Gosselin Dec. 28, 5 a.m. EST

Tom Steckel hunched over a laptop in the overheated basement of the state Capitol building in Pierre, South Dakota, early last week, trying to figure out how a newly awarded benefit claims contract will make it easier for him do his job.

Steckel is South Dakota’s director of employee benefits. His department administers programs that help the state’s 13,500 public employees pay for health care and prepare for retirement.

It’s steady work and, for that, Steckel, 62, is grateful. After turning 50, he was laid off three times before landing his current position in 2014, weathering unemployment stints of up to eight months.

When he started, his $90,000-a-year salary was only 60 percent of what he made at his highest-paying job. Even with a subsequent raise, he’s nowhere close to matching his peak earnings.

[Caliman73]

1. That is just simple capitalism

Companies want workers who are young and can work longer hours and whom they can pay lower wages. Experience and loyalty are irrelevant when you see workers as liabilities as most capitalist endeavors do.

[malaise]

2. True but too many workers are naive about this

and end up bitter and disillusioned. It's better for them to know up front.
Do not work yourself to death for any company - most are loyal to no one.

[X_Digger]

4. Nobody's tombstone will ever read, "He added shareholder value." n/t

[malaise]

5. Agree

My mentor used to say never give up your lunch to show loyalty for if your folks take too long to bury you, they will advertise your post before you're in the ground.

[smirkymonkey]

3. K&R

What are people to do when this happens and they are too young to retire/collect Social Security. Most people don't have enough saved to retire that early and it's very difficult to get hired once you are over 50. It's a desperate situation. Some people that age still have children in college and elderly parents to care for. It is never a good time for anyone to lose a job, but this is a terrible age to be unemployed as their job prospects are very limited.

[malaise]

6. It's painful to watch

This predatory capitalism cannot continue

[BlancheSplanchnik]

11. It's wrong what corporatism does to people.

That’s a horrible understatement.

[trev]

15. I lost my job in 2015 at age 60

and have been unable to find another. No one wants to hire me.

I will be evicted next week.

[Bradshaw3]

18. I'm sorry to hear that

I semi-retired at 60 thinking I could work part-time but I could not find a job, any job, even low paying ones and despite an excellent work record. I then had to get a full-time job and couldn't get one. I finally called an old boss who had an opening and he hired me on the spot, and later I retired fully at 62. I don't care what anyone says, age discrimination is a very real problem.

Good luck to you in the future.

[trev]

22. Thanks.

Enjoy your retirement!

[Bradshaw3]

23. If it helps there were many bumps along the way

I had to do a job I hated for two years but everything eventually worked out.

[smirkymonkey]

33. I'm so sorry to hear that trev.

It makes me so angry that this is happening to people. Can you start collecting SS? It's just so wrong. I can't tell you how sad this makes me. I am a little younger but I may be in your position soon. I still have a massive student loan hanging over my head. I don't know what I will do without a job.

[trev]

43. I've been getting SS for a year now.

But it doesn't cover my expenses. I've worked some temp jobs at min wage, but they don't last long.

I truly hope you don't find yourself in my position.

[jmbar2]

26. I have advised my younger relatives to be prepared to retire at 45

That's when the knives start to come out. All retirement planning should take this reality into consideration. Because of it, you should also avoid any corporate initiatives to "harvest" your knowledge. You paid for it, take it with you. Study investing throughout your working life.

[smirkymonkey]

32. It's not always that easy.

Sometimes life gets in the way.

[jmbar2]

36. It will not be easy

I learned the very hard way. I wish someone had told me when I was young. I would have made a number of different decisions.

[trev]

45. When I was young

jobs were easy to come by. I could quit one and within a few days start another. I did this over and over again.

Today I can't find anything.

[jmbar2]

46. I hear you

I think applicant screening software has really screwed up the job market in general. It's calibrated to only pass through a minimum top percent of "matches", and to discard everyone else. If the job requisition is overly specified, it kicks out well-qualified people, and selects for only those that meet the narrow definitions, even if they are marginal.

It also means that if you have ANY mark against you, it's one strike and you are out of the labor market. I went into self employment towards the end of my career. It was a hassle, but helped me cross the retirement line. I pity the younger people still having to deal with a crooked and rigged labor market. Good luck to you.

[trixie2]

29. When Michigan went right to work state

All persons with a pension were walked out the door. Most were of pension age but some of us were not. I had 2 years of my expenditures saved but it has been 3 years now and I have depleted my savings, have to pay for health care and I have gone through depression and illness. I now collect my pension but it is 30% less then it would have been if I had stayed to at least 58. I have part-time jobs to fill in for food, car etc. I have not bought clothes in 3 years.

My union was in on this and knew it would happen 6 months before it did. THEY SAID NOTHING. Now all new hires, you must possess a masters degree and be state certified, are paid for 20 hours a week, no benefits, no sick/vacation days and even when holidays fall on a work day - no pay. The average pay is $15 - $18 an hour. How can anyone pay back student loans and move out of parents house?

[smirkymonkey]

31. I'm so sorry to hear about what happened to you.

It's not right. There is something very wrong with this country. Take care!

[trixie2]

34. The worst part is the betrayal by the union

We have been a union family for generations and as a college educated person I was thrilled to belong to a union and was happily paying my dues. For them to do this to us, all the while collecting our dues, is betrayal at its worst.

Thanks for your thoughts. I am now subbing at a major library with pretty good sub pay and have worked my way up the sub chain. I never even thought that I would have to work my way up a sub chain. I also started subbing for a high school teaching literature and gym. Just working made all the difference. My health has greatly improved and I just don't do any extras. I have a feeling the next generation will all work like what we are moving to. I am scared for my nieces and nephews who are all around 30 and have young families.

[smirkymonkey]

35. I wish you and your family all the best of luck.

I am really hoping for some major positive changes in this country for working people. We need more Democrats in office. That is our only hope.

[trev]

44. :(

I'm sorry to hear all of that.

The GOP loves to refer to corporations as "job creators." But they really are not. Corporations may be the worst thing that ever happened to this country. (Which is why I admire Teddy Roosevelt's commitment to trust busting.)

I also have depression, and my body is deteriorating. The only jobs I can find are temp factory positions, which kill me physically. I had to quit my last one because, after a month's employment, I couldn't even walk across the factory floor.

I spent 30 years as a computer programmer/analyst. Now I can't even sweep floors.

It is very frustrating.

I hope things work out for you.

[trixie2]

48. Good luck to you too

If you have some college credits a lot of states will let you be a sub teacher. I only do 1/2 days because you get 3/4 day pay and it is quick and the best money.

[DavidDvorkin]

7. Been there, done that.

[mcar]

8. I got downsized 5 years ago, at age 55

30+ years of experience in my field. In these 5 years since, I've gotten 3 interviews from hundreds of applications.

I've been freelancing ever since so bring in some income. But we lost 50% of our combined income and great benefits when my job went away. Don't tell me it's not my age. Most, if not all, applications are now online and you must list years for things like college graduation. Most jobs ask for x # years of experience, for my field and level, usually 10-15. If I put the true year of graduation, plus my work experience, the program knocks me out so my app never even sees an HR person.

Do I lie to get an interview? They'd know in a second that I did.

[malaise]

10. It's beyond crazy

It's not fair

[mcar]

13. I still have something to offer

But I don't fit the parameters.

My sister does HR for a state gov dept. She has refused to go with the online app systems for that very reason. Employers are never even seeing applications from people who might be perfect for the job.

[guillaumeb]

9. Work smarter, not harder.

My motto while working.

[USALiberal]

12. I am a 60 year old programmer and company is closing my location next August.....

So I will be out of work!

Most companies assume a 60 year old programmer is old school. So I bet it is hard to find a job.

[Joe941]

14. There is even ageism against berrnie.

Pretty much every complaint against Bernie includes he is too old. Ditto for hillary but add some sexism.

[Sherman A1]

16. Yup

but that is somehow okay.

[JudyM]

40. All the complaints that we need younger people. No, we need strong progressive leadership with

strength to stand up to corporatocracy. We don’t need old corporatists, or young corporatists. Business as usual is not going to solve our most serious problems.

[Sherman A1]

17. Yup,

I was pushed out the door early so that a friend of the boss could get my job. He did and screwed it up nicely for them at the holidays, but they got me out the door and saved themselves from having to deal with a person that was part of the group that wrote the manual for the job. (So I can truthfully say, I wrote the book on this job).

I was lucky to be planning on going soon anyway and was pretty well lined up. It cost me a couple of thousand dollars in increased health insurance costs but in the end it was well worth it.

[George II]

19. I was 42 years old and was laid off in order to give my job to a 32 year old woman....

.....who was returning from maternity leave.

I was told my job was eliminated. My last day was on a Friday. That Monday morning she returned to work with MY title (in actuality her job had been eliminated), my work load, and sat at my desk!

After filing for age and sex discrimination, the state agreed with me. 18 months later we negotiated an agreement for back pay and I returned to my job.

It was the proudest day of my 45-year career.

[aikoaiko]

24. You should be proud. That is a major accomplishment.

Not many have the grit for the long-term fight.

[George II]

27. Thank you. The thing is that the woman had no idea what was going on. We were co-workers....

....for about five years, worked side by side and liked each other. After I returned there was no animosity between us (it wasn't her doing), although at first it was a little awkward.

[malaise]

41. What a great story

[Stonepounder]

20. I worked for a tech company for 15 years.

I was an expert in my job - the go-to guy for the hard problems. Suddenly the company I was working for decided that they were doing away with 'work from home' employees and, oh by the way, we are immediately discontinuing the product I worked on. (I had been working for home for 9 years doing tech support. I had more computing horsepower in my basement that most of our clients had in their entire hospital.) Since I already had 15 years in, we made the difficult decision to move to corporate headquarters so I could 'go in to work' every day. I worked with HR and finally found a new job within the company. Unfortunately, HR screwed me up, my new job was on an Operating System I knew nothing about, using a database I knew nothing about, supporting a product I knew nothing about. My 'training' consisted in listening in on another employee's phone calls for two days and then I was on my own. I asked for additional training and was told there was no money in the budget for it.

Then I noticed that there seemed to be a dribble of long term employees 'disappearing'. There was never an explanation of why, just one day they were there and the next day they weren't. I managed to last two years and then a week before Christmas they year I turned 60, I was 'fired' for, of all things, insubordination. I won't go into details, but that was the silliest reason I've ever heard. There obviously was no insubordination. My boss and his boss simply lied to HR to get rid of me.

Thankfully, this was during the recession of 2008 and they had extended unemployment benefits to 99 weeks. That just barely carried me to my 62 birthday when I took early SS. The reason they wanted to get rid of us is that we were getting paid about 2X what the new hires were, and we were eligible for 4 week vacation per year, and a 1 month sabbatical every 7 years.

So yeah, I know all about getting rid of the experts because they are 'too old'.

[malaise]

39. Good post

[Rebl2]

21. Same thing

happened to my parents and father-in-law in the 1980’s, so this is nothing new. Oddly enough my husband retired last year (he was 65 at the time) and his supervisor didn’t want him to go. He was very good at his job, but he couldn’t take all the right-wingers any more.

[TexasBushwhacker]

25. I'll be 62 in January. My peak earnings were in 2002

On top of being in my 60s now and female, I have GAPS in my resume from having to take off to care for ill parents and because of disability. Even though both happened over 5 years ago, they are still GAPS!!!! How dare I? For a while I was truthful about why I took the time off, but now I just lie and say I was freelancing. FWIW, I was told to lie by a job counselor.

[safeinOhio]

28. 69 and retired many years ago from my union job.

SS and $900./month pension. Always having fun chasing a few bucks. Today my(retired) friend and I drove across the state to haul a car for a business down the street. They paid the gas and we each put $50 in our pocket. We flipped 12 cars in the last year and that led to hauling cars for others. In the warm weather I go to sales and and rent a booth at an antique mall. Pays a little more than I spend, but keeps out on the road and adventures that I love. When I first retired, I got a few low pay part time jobs that never lasted too long and I'd move on to something else. I'd say I now just do bunch of little hustles. Having fun and making a few bucks on the side. Have friends that retired when I did, but they stayed home and watched the tube, now dead. All I can suggest is to keep moving, take a few chances and never pass up a chance to start a conversation with a new possible friend. I live in a small house and keep expenses low. I make use of my free time to make a buck or two on the side and love what I'm doing.

There is life after full time work. The guy we hauled a car for today says he has another one for us next week. He likes us old farts because we are fun and he trust us. What ever you do, get the hell out of the house everyday.

[malaise]

37. That's fine

We are retirees and we do small consultancies as we choose. We retired between 65 and 66.
This read is about folks way below that age who are forced out for no good reason except age discrimination. These are folks at the top of their game. It is wrong.

[Guppy]

30. I was lucky enough

to be looking for a job during 9/11. Needless to say there were no jobs. I was in sales and always could cold call. My wife gave me the idea to open a cold calling business. I have been doing it for 16 years with a short break when I joined one of my customers.We took that company from 15 people to 400 people. We ended up selling that company. I reopened my business and I am on my own again. I am working with that cofounder of that company again. We have new software that is very cool.I can continue to do this until I decide to stop.

My advice is to figure out what people hate to do and do it. Also after 50 find a business or be a revenue producer.

[malaise]

38. Sound advice

[milestogo]

42. I think it also depends on when your salary peaks.

Being a woman in tech, my career trajectory has been slow. As long as I am willing to take jobs below my skill level, I'll keep working. A lot of men in tech peak in their salaries during their forties. So companies are looking at their salaries and saying "we can get this done for less". Men are pushed out at the peak of their career, sometimes in their early fifties when they have a lot of good working years left.

Being female, I'm still reaching for my peak salary. But I'd rather keep working than get there and suddenly be laid off.

[malaise]

47. Sound thinking

THe worst part of this is that many men don't understand the cold and indifferent nature of the corporation so they put in more and more hours and stll get the short end of the stick. Research lke this should help them make better decisions.