Re: Assange, a most unlikeable charachter.

[grantcart]

I have never liked him. Just don't like the persona that he transmits. Don't like some of the things he has done, especially don't like some of his methodologies. He seems so aggressive against Democratic governments but hasn't taken similar risks against dictatorships. Doesn't seem to have the same hunger against guys like Putin that actually kill people like Assange. Makes me wonder if hasn't made some accomodations.

But all of that is completley beside the point.

This campaign against him is obvious and it is against the larger interests of transparency in a democratic country.

Let's take some of the more relevent issues one by one.

1) Assange is no Daniel Ellsburg.

Daniel Ellsburg was an analyst who gathered information into a comprehensive study, known as the Pentagon Papers. At great personal risk, including his life and imprisonment he broke the law and passed classified material to the New York Times and the Washington Post that published that material.

In this comparison Assange, if anything would be the New York Times and not Daniel Ellsburg. That is the problem with the campaign against Assange. What legally has he done wrong? He is not the one that was stealing the documents, he was the publisher.

If you support some clandestine or underhanded persecution against Assange then you cannot be excused the next time someone does something against the next George Bush, that is the issue here, not whether you like, or dislike, as I do, Assange. Its not personal its business, and it is the business of a free press to publish information for the people to make informed decisions.

2) Assange is no Daniel Ellsburg part two.

Ellsburg was very careful in the material that he passed. It was all related to the understanding and history of policy, how it was made and how. He wasn't dumping large amounts of data that could be used by bad guys to kill other people. It was a lazercut while Assange is unloading semi's full of data.

One of the things that he has done that is the most aggregious, imo, is publishing vast details of diplomatic conversations for little or no relevent information. This could have a chilling effect on diplomacy, diplomacy that helps broker peace deals and reduces war. Diplomats need to feel that their conversations are private, that they can make honest reports back to their home base and be able to think openly and discuss all things freely without worrying that everything will be published.

3) If Assange has broken any real laws then prosecute him on those, otherwise stop this campaign of harassment.

4) The Swedish charges of rape at this point are immaterial. Whether or not they are true or not he is not going to get a fair trial, he is going to be persecuted because he is the head of wikileaks.

While it is possible that he is a serial rapist, he doesn't fit any profile I have ever seen. Rapists don't just start they have a pattern of behavior, and Assange has a practiced discipline of staying out of the reach of governments so I find it out of charachter. In any case he won't be able to get a fair trial.

5) Yes the Swedish play ball with the US and other countries when it is in their interest, I know from personal experience.

So I am no hero worshipper of Assange. I don't like him, don't like many of the things he has done.

That is what standing up for the First Ammendment is all about. The people have a right to have a transparent system, especially when it comes to war. These lines are rarely drawn with clear delineations that you find yourself in 100% agreement with who or what is being said. In those times it is better you side with the person who has possibly crossed the line than allow the line to be drawn to close, lest the circle be too small when the next time the government takes an action that you disagree with strongly.

Its too bad we didn't have that kind of information at the time time of Gulf of Tonkin or when Dick Cheney and the others were proclaiming that they knew where the W<

[Why Syzygy]

1. . bookmark .

Logic. Cool beans.

[Spider Jerusalem]

2. Re 3)

"if Assange has broken any real laws".

That's why he's wanted in Sweden. Rape is a crime. If he can't get a fair trial because "he's going to be persecuted because he's head of Wikileaks", it would follow that he wouldn't get a fair trial for...any charge.

The Swedish charges aren't really immaterial. The offence he's wanted for is rape, full stop. Taking advantage of a sleeping person (who cannot consent) is by definition rape. And there isn't really a consistent "profile" for acquaintance rapists, so saying "but he doesn't seem to fit the profile" is nonsense.

[1monster]

3. And the second woman involved became so upset when she heard Assange was to be charged

with rape, she refused to speak further with the police and refused to sign the notes taken during the police interview.

Usually, when a woman is raped, she knows it. (Unless she has been drugged/durnk first.)

[tama]

4. A more common technical term

is 'morning shag' after you've had sex in the last night and are sleeping naked in the same bed, slowly waking up. You've never had one of those?

The woman has written a guide on how to revenge to cheating boyfriends, and the two women who had consensual sex with Assange went to see police after a week and lots of talks between them. Connect the ..... ......

[Spider Jerusalem]

5. I can honestly say...

that I have never penetrated a sleeping partner, nor deliberately not used a condom when expected to. The first is by definition and legally an act of rape, because a sleeping person is incapable of consenting (prior consent to intercourse while awake is irrelevant).

[tama]

6. My guess

about the scenario is based on that she said elsewhere that she was half-asleep - there lot's of gray zones between sleep and awake. The prime example of the rape you mean is sedating someone unconsciouss.

[ananda]

7. I find him rather likeable myself.

It doesn't mean he's perfect.

However, he's definitely a damm fucking hero
for Wikileaks!

[Tom Rinaldo]

8. Excellent OP

All of it, every nuance. Thank you for taking the time to express this.