General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow many times do racists have to use a hand gesture associated with white supremacists before we
stop defending the gesture as innocent, at best, and, at worst, "trolling liberals" and start to call it a racist call sign?
Even if its purpose IS to "troll," the very fact that those use this hand signal think it's effective as a trolling device is proof that the gesture evokes something negative in the people at whom it's targeted. How then can it be claimed that it's an innocent gesture that should not be read as racist?
Instead of jumping to defend those using it by making excuses about how not ALL such gestures are racist, why not call out those who are using it and tell them "That gesture has been co-opted as a racist sign, so why are you using it? If you don't intend to send a message of racism and white supremacy, you should stop posing with it. And now that you know what it has come to stand for, if you continue to use it, you're intentionally sending a message that you, too, are a racist."
Link to tweet
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I didnt see you getting any pushback on the first.
So why repeat yourself?
SpookyDem
(55 posts)Caliman73
(11,693 posts)I see valid logical flow from the two.
People came out and defended the issue so now the OP is simply asking what is the line at which people will accept that a once innocuous gesture has been subsumed and co-opted by racists and now shares that connotation.
I am personally of the opinion that context is the most important factor. If I see a bunch of Black athletes at a basketball game holding up the gesture, I will know that it is very likely that someone just hit a three-point shot. If I see a group of Trump supporters with MAGA hats using the gesture, or Stephen Miller, or Bannon, or Steve King, I will assume that it is highly likely it is meant to be a sign of white supremacist code.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)You explained it very well.
And if I see a group of MAGA hat-wearing white guys doing it anywhere other than a basketball game, at a Beyonce concert or at an Oprah Winfrey lookalike contest, it wouldn't even occur to me that they were emulating Oprah, Beyonce or black basketball players.
Caliman73
(11,693 posts)The symbol still means OK. But on the hands of known White Supremacists or Supremacist friendly people, it takes on a different meaning.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Here is the relevant Snopes article:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/intern-white-power-hand-gesture/
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Another of the things I love about you!
marble falls
(56,358 posts)your evidence there, arencha??? What's your real concern here?
Caliman73
(11,693 posts)Snopes has a pretty good reputation for trying to get to the bottom of things. It seems however that in this instance, they were not able to be definitive.
The reason is because like the ADL article you like to cite all the time, the full story is not yet known on this situation. The ADL article for instance was dated from 2017 and updated in September 2018. Still, they say that the sign was originated on 4 chan as a hoax to troll liberals, however, there are pictures of Richard Spencer a noted White Supremacist doing the sign in 2015 which influenced 4 chan to engage in their troll.
As I said before, CONTEXT. Not every time someone flashes the OK sign, is it a White Supremacist sign. If Stephan Curry does it, Oprah, Samuel Jackson, etc... you can be very reasonable sure it isn't a White Power sign.
If Steven Miller, Richard Spencer, A person wearing a MAGA hat, etc... are doing it, you can be reasonable sure that there is a racial component to it whether it is strictly a sign of White Supremacy or not.
If White power people keep using it, even ironically or to troll, it will eventually become a recognized White Power hand sign, though in context it will still be just OK or someone calling someone else and asshole.
philly_bob
(2,419 posts)a black reporter being strapped into a cold water suit used the gesture to indicate that she was okay. That was the A-OK sign, not the white power sign.
Depends on context.
On the other hand, I have seen racists claim it as a white power sign on 4-chan.
betsuni
(25,128 posts)ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)Like, "Duh, here is a racist SOB".
And just compare his expression with everyone else's expressions. Everyone else in that picture is at ease, smiling, having a good time. The WP dude is deadly serious. He's a Stephen Miller in the making.
fleur-de-lisa
(14,615 posts)Please keep posting about this, EffieBlack!
PSPS
(13,512 posts)LexVegas
(6,005 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)but your post made me laugh like a goon.
treestar
(82,383 posts)the only time it is not is if someone is talking with their hands (I saw Rachel do it and with her, she's just moving her hands as she is talking, the "old fashioned" use, if you will).
The idiots in those photos are obvious. And the top group has some diversity! That idiot is the only one doing the sign while everyone else just has thumbs up.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)And who is the wannabe whittie behind Kavanaugh?!