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(5,599 posts)exboyfil
(17,862 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)This was a disgrace and the girls involved need some justice.
madville
(7,404 posts)Probably one of the reasons the DOJ went easy on Epstein.
JCannon
(67 posts)Disproving this oft-heard canard would require much more time than I can spend right now. Suffice it to say, I've looked into this matter closely. I've studied Virginia Roberts' various declarations and I've painstakingly gone over the flight records and passenger lists for Epstein's jets. I invite others to do likewise; the materials are all online.
Bottom line: Every time Clinton was on one of Epstein's two jets, he was taken to a conference (usually about science) on a trip that was covered in the news. On no occasion did he share a trip with Virginia Roberts or any other underaged female.
There is absolutely no evidence that Clinton went to Epstein's island.
At the time, Epstein's perversions were NOT well-known. Neither jet was known as "The Lolita Express." Some people claim otherwise, but those claims are never backed by evidence. When Clinton accepted those rides, Epstein was known for his interest in science.
The Virginia Roberts declaration presents us with no small amount of difficulty: Most of us have come to despise Dershowitz; thus we do not want to discredit her testimony. However, three things must be noted:
1. What she said about Clinton is NOT borne out by the evidence.
2. For understandable legal reasons, she has retracted what she says about Dershowitz, although I'm told that she privately still says that he had sex with her. (Remember, her suit was against Epstein, not Dershowitz. Battling the latter detracted from the battle against the former.)
3. Even though she claims to have met Clinton, at no point did she say that she or any other "Epstein girl" had sex with Clinton. This has not stopped the right from claiming otherwise. Absurdly, the right continually uses the Roberts declaration against Clinton while absolving Dershowitz -- even though Roberts claimed to have sex with Dershowitz and not with Clinton!
There are two additional pieces of "evidence" (if it can be called that) against Clinton proffered by the right:
1. Ghislaine Maxwell attended Chelsea's wedding. My response: Big deal. Maxwell was invited to lots and LOTS of social functions at that time. That's just the world in which she circulates. She's the daughter of Rupert Maxwell, she has money, she knows everybody, and she gets invited to all sorts of events. That doesn't mean that everyone she has ever met is a pedophile.
2. Maxwell was instrumental in founding a "clean the oceans" group (I forget the name) which received money the Clinton Foundation. The group is very real and does good work. Only a nut would claim that her association with this group somehow proves that Clinton raped a child.
And that is it. That is the sum total of evidence against Bill Clinton. The rest is supposition, conclusion-hopping and conspiracy theory.
Dems have to get over Clinton Derangement Syndrome. The right keeps repeating anti-Clinton lies so often that the left starts to believe those lies. Or rather, the left refuses to challenge them. Instead of passively accepting the claims made by reactionary propagandists, we must demand proof. Even if they are talking about the Clintons.
Oh, and here's the part that everyone forgets: Virginia Roberts was recruited while working for Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago. (Her father, who appears to be a real piece of work, also had a job there.) Donald Trump was the one who had her wear a skimpy outfit -- even though she looked pre-pubescent.
The Trump connection was completely left out of the original Roberts declaration. I'm not sure why.
DURHAM D
(32,606 posts)I get so tired of this shit.
niyad
(113,074 posts)rusty fender
(3,428 posts)regarding this new investigation
uponit7771
(90,302 posts)DURHAM D
(32,606 posts)other than internet trolls? jftr - Bill Clinton had no leverage in 2016 with anyone at DOJ.
neohippie
(1,142 posts)Their tweet sources NBC Politics....
But here is a story from the Miami Herald too
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/article225624945.html
certainot
(9,090 posts)so it can't be true
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Would feel badly for Hillary though... she's been through enough.
Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)Let truth and justice prevail.
this was sexual abuse on minors.
If the high and mighty are innocent, they have nothing to worry about.
If people we regard as heroes are really monsters, they never deserved our respect in the first place.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)11cents
(1,777 posts)There's prima facie evidence that Epstein got an absurdly sweet deal. "Resistance" grifters go straight from that to the claim that GOP Senator Sasse, R-NE, is aiming this right at Donald Trump and Alan Dershowitz.
11cents
(1,777 posts)They're not journalists. This "BOOM! Get ready for your child molestation indictments, Trump and Dershowitz" interpretation is.
deurbano
(2,894 posts)heard the grifter thing (I think about Taylor, anyway), but what's their history?
11cents
(1,777 posts)And gotten some tens of thousands, I think. Which went to fix his damn car. But the more pertinent history is that neither of them have any expertise or any real sources -- although Taylor in particular has not only claimed real sources many times, but he's been scammed by fake "sources" who were out to show him up as a fraud. Simply put, they're part of a Twitter phalanx who are pretending to be something they're not and are capitalizing on people's urgent need to believe -- capitalizing in the form of ego boosts if not money.
deurbano
(2,894 posts)may be how I overlooked these two.
womanofthehills
(8,661 posts)Also Claude Taylor worked in the Clinton White House.
deurbano
(2,894 posts)by sources who have previously proven reliable (like Marcy Wheeler), since my time, like everyone's, is limited. But I have no personal knowledge of these particular individuals.
womanofthehills
(8,661 posts)He has a Mad Dog Pac that has put up over 50 billboards against, Republicans and the NRA and is responsible for all the Trump and Trump rat ballons floating at Trump Towers, Trumps Mar-a-Lago, etc.
theboss
(10,491 posts)It's awful, and I refuse to celebrate any part of it.
Sneederbunk
(14,278 posts)theboss
(10,491 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,422 posts)theboss
(10,491 posts)From what I know, this is likely to impact more Democrats than Republicans.
I don't care. I cheer for justice, not political parties.
But celebrating this as some weird political victory is both creepy and likely misinformed.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"this is likely to impact more Democrats than Republicans..."
912gdm
(959 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)theboss
(10,491 posts)I guess celebrating an expansion of this case as political victory of some kind is what troubles me.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)spanone
(135,795 posts)aidbo
(2,328 posts)..of justice, check out these Democracy Now! shows.
https://www.democracynow.org/2019/1/29/exclusive_ex_harvey_weinstein_employee_breaks
https://www.democracynow.org/2019/1/29/untouchable_women_testify_to_harvey_weinsteins
House of Roberts
(5,162 posts)'conveniently' when the wealthy and powerful are accused.
vsrazdem
(2,177 posts)MIA for the last couple of months, and figured something about this was going to break eventually.
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)And maybe purchase some subscriptions. It's how the good places stay in business.
NJCher
(35,620 posts)keithbvadu2
(36,667 posts)Jeffrey Epstein, Roy Moore and Donald Trump are going to be happy to see this precedent.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142259606
Kansas judge calls teenage girls 'aggressors' in sex abuse case and gives defendant reduced sentence
======================
I've known Jeff (Epstein) for 15 years. Terrific guy,'' Trump told New York Magazine back in 2002. "He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it - Jeffrey enjoys his social life."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141705027
enid602
(8,594 posts)Watch out for Alex Acosta. He was the US Attorney in South Florida who got Epstein off easy and then was appointed Secretary of Labor. Not sure if it was quid pro quo or blackmail, but it does not smell too good. Lets hope for justice for Katie Johnson and the others.