Blackface Performer as recently as 2015

[Baltimike]

It does not matter what anyone's OPINION is of this fact. There has been a FALSE FRAMING of a gross issue stating that 35 years ago, blackface was completely unacceptable. That, quite frankly, is applying today's standard to yesterday's ..and it is false to do so.

There are even other examples of black face in the same effing yearbook. I don't LIKE that this shit was being done, but I absolutely reject that this was somehow so out of the norm that it is an outrage today. It is outrageous by today's standards, but it wasn't then, and the other examples of that shit is fucking proof of it...whether we like it or not.

Blackface is *ugly*, and We The People have moved well passed it as a society...but 35 years ago? Not so much. Even as recently as 2015. You don't have to AGREE with this man in blackface, but you certainly don't get to DENY that it happened and impose it on someone else. Facts are facts.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/a-final-night-in-blackface-baltimores-al-jolson-impersonator-calls-it-quits/2015/11/12/3fb90254-8805-11e5-be39-0034bb576eee_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.105c9f841ef7

[NRaleighLiberal]

1. I actually read through this entry on Wikipedia last night to fully educate myself on it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface

Very comprehensive....pretty shocking in spots.

But for an issue like this, I think it is important to be as fully informed as possible - especially when something spans many years and each of us has but a small slice of familiarity based on our age/generation.

[Baltimike]

2. This is so true.

I am just no longer willing to throw out the baby with the bath water.

[MosheFeingold]

3. Probably a stupid distinction

But when I think of "black face" I think of someone dressing up like a clownish minstrel with white lips and the like, not merely trying to look like a character or person who is black.

For example, Ted Danson was in black face, while Joy Behar dressed as an African woman was not.

Maybe it's too subtle a distinction to be made. Or maybe I am emotionally compensating for my fricking stupid-looking JewFro from the 1970s. Bad decade for hair.

[Baltimike]

4. did you click the link?

he's in blackface...THAT blackface

[MosheFeingold]

11. I did

And I agree.

My comment was as to the general topic, not limited to this instance.

[Nitram]

5. I agree. We were sadly unenlightened about blackface back then.

I don't think it is fair to apply today's standards to yesterday's actions except in cases that are clearly heinous such as rape.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. Black people knew blackface was hurtful "back then."

Saying "we were unenlightened" erases their experience.

[EffieBlack]

10. It doesn't matter until certain people says it matters

But you know that ...

[WhiskeyGrinder]

12. Wish I could say I'm surprised by the amount of people who are willing to erase experiences and play

down the impact of these actions. But I've learned a bit in the past few years and expecting the worst so I'm not surprised is a time- and energy-saver.

[Nitram]

14. I'm just saying we were stupid and ignorant, but that we know better now. We can apologize but we

can't undo it. What would you have us do, Grinder? Obama was against gay marriage but he came around. Should he have resigned from the presidency for his previous ignorance, insensitivity, and bigotry?

[EffieBlack]

13. Who's "we"?

As WG noted, black folk have been enlightened about this for years.

And plenty of white folk also completely got it.

Here's one example:


In 1965, the Dick Van Dyke Show did an episode called "A Show of Hands," in which Laura and Rob accidentally dye their hands black just before they are to attend a dinner where Rob will accept an award on Alan Brady's behalf for racial understanding.

It is a hilarious episode that examines the offensive and negative connotations of blackface while also pointing out how important intent and context are before determining whether something is racist. And one of the things I appreciate most is how carefully and skillfully they walked the line between truthtelling and making excuses - AND they did it without putting black shoe polish on their faces.

A brilliant episode.

Dick Van Dyke, Mary Tyler Moore, and Carl Reiner got it in and explained it to the country in 1965. And there were numerous other opportunities for people to become "enlightened"that this was jacked up.

Yet 20 years later, Northam and his buddies thought it was funny, not only to intentionally wear blackface but to proudly memorialize it with photos (although they also knew it was messed up enough not to share the photos outside of their insular, privileged little circle).

We're not applying "today's standards to yesterday's actions." It's been decades since blackface was considered to be ok by decent, thinking people.

No excuse.

[Nitram]

17. "We" is me and anybody else who did something that was stupid when we look back on it.

Enlightenment is unequally distributed and arrives some places later than others. The consciousness (or lack thereof) behind an act is relevant. If something is done out of ignorance that doesn't excuse it but it is better than a racist who does it with the intention of hurting other people.

[Iggo]

24. Bullfuckingshit. In 1984 it was universally known that blackface was racist.

Most gave a shit.

Some didn't.

But we were most certainly not "unenlightened."

[Nitram]

27. Obviously you were not among the unenlightened. I bow to your superior level of evolution.

[cally]

6. Did you read the article?

Fundraiser for cops who killed Freddie Gray

Not for the first time, Bobby Berger made national headlines this summer. It was just a few months after six Baltimore police officers were charged in the death of Freddie Gray, an African American man who suffered a fatal spinal injury while in police custody. The riots that followed made Baltimore a center of the national conflict over race relations and police use of force.

Perhaps this wasn’t the best time or place to sing and dance in blackface. Yet Berger, a former police officer, planned a show as a fundraiser for the accused officers.

“I told him, ‘Your timing is very bad,’ ” said Daryl Davis, an R&B and blues artist who plays with Berger. “Baltimore was burning to the ground with riots over racism and you’re going to wear blackface? But he just wasn’t thinking in those terms.”

[llmart]

9. Anybody else on here remember the All in the Family episode of Archie in blackface?

Just curious. That was probably 1971 or a bit later. I was a liberal Dem back then as I've always been, yet I honestly don't remember being offended by it.

I agree that there are some things you can't take out of context and then examine them by today's standards. Then we're back to beating that dead horse we did here on DU at Christmas time about the 1940's song "Baby, It's Cold Outside."

We really do need to pick our battles better. We've got much, much bigger issues to deal with.

[Nitram]

15. When I was a kid back in 1961, living in Virginia during the 100th anniversary of the first battle

of the Civil War, I thought the Confederate flag was cool. I understand its meaning now. I believe we've all gone through transformations like this. That's evolution, and it's a good thing.

[LexVegas]

16. ...

[yellowdogintexas]

18. Back in the day...1965.. down in Kentucky..a minstrel show

The Rotary Club put it on and it was in the high school gym. Lots of funny gags, and a real send up of a Hell Fire and Damnation Southern Revival Sermon. (we literally spent our entire summer attending church revivals and Vacation Bible Schools in every small church )

I remember the old white guys in red and white blazers, the banjo, piano and songs but I can't for the life of me remember if anyone was in blackface. I either blocked it out or it wasn't there. I was a junior in high school so I should remember it if it actually did happen

Interestingly, I vividly remember a talent show when I was in second grade which featured a highschool student who pantomimed to the old Stephen Foster song "Old Black Joe" which is about an elderly slave who longs for his old friends from the plantation who have died. He is ready to head for Heaven to join them.. the performer wore a burlap bag over his head with eyes and mouth on it instead of blackface It was a real tear jerker To this day that song makes me weep.

I hope this incident in Virginia will be cautionary and make people stop and think before they do such insensitive things.

[Empowerer]

19. The fact that people did it doesn't mean it was unacceptable

You noted an instance when someone did it in 2015. Did that mean it was acceptable in 2015?

[aikoaiko]

20. Blackface was confusing to me as a teen in the 1980s.

I grew up in a near all-white community in a suburb of NYC.

On one hand, I never felt compelled to wear blackface as a costume in any setting, but only had the mildest inclination that it might not be proper.

On the other hand, Al Jolson was a revered performer and many cartoons (looney cartoons and others from the 40s and 50s) alluded to blackface without any mention of a problem.

By the early 1990s I was in college and my world became more diverse. I learned that blackface was not OK, but it wasn't until the late 1990s that I learned why.

[Buckeyeblue]

21. For years Billy Crystal has been doing an impression of Sammy Davis jr

In full black makeup. It was a regular routine on SNL in the mid-80's.

[appalachiablue]

25. Billy Crystal as Sammie Davis Jr. with Rob Reiner, TV 1980s.

I don't remember this is the 80s, but find it creepy, too close to blackface.

[democratisphere]

26. Can you imagine Billy Crystal as Sammie Davis Jr. without any

black makeup trying to recognized as the FAMOUS character he was portraying? Ridiculous. There is racist blackface AND there is portraying a usually FAMOUS BLACK CHARACTER OR PERSON in a role, costume and the like; the latter having absolutely nothing to do with racism.

[Nitram]

28. As I've pointed out previously, blackface today refers to any use of makeup to make a white person

look like a black person.

[Iggo]

22. No. There was an ACCURATE FRAMING that 35 years ago, blackface was completely unacceptable...

...to anyone who wasn't a racist bigoted piece of shit.

Get it right.

[ismnotwasm]

23. +1

[Baltimike]

30. Except that there wasn't yet...

and whether or not you AGREE with that FACT is none of my business. Flip through like twenty or so yearbooks and then please stop pretending we have been woke since the 80's.

We just weren't.

[Iggo]

31. Bull. Fucking. Shit.

Everyone who wasn't a bigot in 1984 knew that blackface was racist. I knew it. The Gov knew it. (I'm two years younger than he is.)

Where were you in '84?

[Baltimike]

32. No. Fucking. Bull. Shit. And. Just. Because. You. Cuss. Doesn't. Make. It. So

Where was I in 1984? Helping my white cousin dress up like Eddie Murray for Halloween

Once again, your OPINION about this is none of my business. The FACT of the matter is, the blackface in LOTS AND LOTS of yearbooks tell a different story than you want to impose.

Good luck with that.

[Iggo]

33. In 1984 blackface was only cool with racists.

Just because lots and lots of yearbooks have pictures of racist pieces of shit doesn't mean it was okay.

Fact. Not opinion.

Deal with it.

[Baltimike]

34. In 1984, there must have been LOTS of yearbook editors who disagree with you

And calling things or people "pieces of shit" is INDEED a matter of OPINION.

Deal with it.

[Nitram]

35. Iggo, you may look back on your mode of communication someday and realize the you were totally

unaware of the fact that people don't communicate that way anymore. Rude language is not persuasive, it is immature and inappropriate. Just like what happened to blackface and other behavior that gradually became inappropriate. Think about it.

[TomVilmer]

29. In Denmark this might be seen as progressive!

The state owned Danish Institute for Human Rights arranged an event in 2012, where makeup artists changed people from white to black - or reverse, or changed their sex. To make people try to be seen by the world with other eyes. This is a brown woman and a white guy, both politicians...


Last year we did it with burqa - for the right to dress as you like, IF YOU LIKE.


It is easy to see how such actions would be seen as very offensive in many other countries, but Denmark has happily not a very toxic past - though the basic wealth is based on trading slaves. Our only traditional minority is from Greenland, but now 8% of our population is of non Western origin.