Bottom line..If what Schiff says is true, then it is a matter of time, Mueller will get Trump

[Stuart G]

"Evidence in plain site, of Trump Collusion with Russia?"

That could be the most important post that we have..Why? If Schiff says this, and it is true, then Mueller will get the whole gang. I honestly don't know, the legal definition of "collusion." but Schiff knows..

Don Viejo, posted this in latest news.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142268351

And if the above is true, and the evidence will stand up in court (as I suspect, but don't know) then it is just a matter of time. When? It is not up to me, that is up to Mueller. Mueller has arrested and convicted the top of the gangs before, and he will do it again. Mueller is not new at this. He has help of the best team around. It appears to me, that he is getting one crook at a time, with the willingness to testify at the higher ups.

If Schiff is correct, then Mueller has seen the proof too.
...It is no longer .."if"...it is now....."when."

So let's be patient. Mueller will get Trump, one way or another, but he will get him

[shanny]

1. Depends on what the definition of "get" is.

Know that he done it? No doubt; probably already does. "Get" him? Dunno. Will he indict? Probably not. Will he be able to lay out evidence proving that he could indict? Possibly. Depends on how shameless and partisan Barr* is prepared to be, and how intrepid the House Democrats are.

We're hanging by a thread imo.

*when Barr pulled his "pardon everybody!" tactic before the stakes were not as high and the benefit of the doubt was granted. Now--I hope--not so much. If he does it now, everyone will KNOW. So how unprincipled is he? We will know soon.

[Stuart G]

3. Mueller is smarter than the gang. And smarter than ..Barr.

I guess Barr is a new actor in the show. It doesn't matter to me, who or what Barr is. Mueller will get the gang. And I think Mueller will indict the gang. Also, Mueller will work with the Attorney General of New York, and Trump cannot pardon state crimes...can he? only federal crimes.. So...we will see. Also, Mueller knows a whole lot of ways..."to get him."...also..think about this one...Mueller is smarter than Trump and Graham.

..........Is that correct?..........more popcorn please.....

[shanny]

5. Barr is not "new."

Deputy AG under George H.W. Bush. Advocated (successfully) for pardoning every possible link between GHWB and Iran-Contra etc etc etc. Do you think he might do that again and that is why rump picked him? Duh.

And no duh Mueller is smarter than rump and graham...is he also enough of a hard-ball player to circumvent his own superior and all the choke points available to Rs? You know, the guys with NO respect for law or precedent or fairness or anything else? We'll see.

[Stuart G]

6. You have pointed out something I did not know...Barr is not "new."

...So Mueller is not new either. Is Mueller a "hard ball player" enough to hard ball Barr and the rest of the gang?
we will see.

[shanny]

24. We will.

Barr and co-conspirators got away with that crap in '92. We were more...naive? forgiving? whatever then, but we are not now, and we are watching. Granted the Rs have revealed themselves in Congress, but the tide is turning/has turned and is Barr prepared to stake what remains of his reputation on rump, and everything getting swept under the rug like last time? As you say, we will see.

[marylandblue]

10. We'll see how it works out, but it's possible Barr won't do the same thing again

The thing about Bush and his accomplices, they all knew how to keep their mouths shut and be loyal to each other. Trump and his gang have not been so careful and several have already made deals. When Barr sees all this evidence, he may think twice about whether he wants to participate in the cover up. I suspect that's why Whitaker didn't take on oversight of Mueller.

[Perseus]

17. You do know that Barr wrote an oped criticizing Muller and the investigation, right?

That is how he got the job, that is why the orange buffoon elected him for the position. Barr means trouble, and he is an intelligent lawyer, plus he has experience in the FBI as well. He seems to be made of the same filth as the orange buffoon. I hope I am proven wrong.

[marylandblue]

22. Yes, I know that, but he hasn't seen the evidence

Whitaker also attacked the investigation, then did nothing and was nervous even to talk about it.

[shanny]

25. I am hoping the same thing.

Barr bailed out GHWB and co., but people were not watching as closely then, and were less likely to raise a stink than they are now. Maybe Barr is both smart enough. wary enough and un-brainwashed enough to realize that.

[Wellstone ruled]

2. The Trump Crime Syndicate will be

wiped out once Donnie is out of Office. This whole Mob related Story is going to play out in several States in the next decade. The Money People will do what ever it takes to try and wipe the smell of Trump off their Bodies.

[Stuart G]

4. I hadn't thought of that one..."The Money People".......that is the banks and bank regulators..Yes.

............WELL SAID..................................................................................................


...The banks, the bank regulators, and the let's see..... Federal Reserve System..that is the top regulator.........That group does not want Trump scum in the system..does it? Trump scum in the money system could cause a major depression. Money group doesn't want that because they will loose a whole lot of money and millions of people will be hurt. But the money group really doesn't want to loose a lot of their own money, and that group will indeed get rid of the Trump gang.

..Why?...to protect themselves... of course... AND as a by product, that group will indeed protect the USA and the world too.

[Wellstone ruled]

12. Much like the after math of Nixon.

Tons of the Moenied people went into temporary seclusion until the Nixon stench wore off. Funny how a couple Generations later,those same Moenied Families return and the smell returns to haunt them once again.

[Jarqui]

7. If you're Trump and your AG/insiders are whispering Mueller is getting close ...

what are you going to do?

Doing nothing is not a very good option at that point.

Might as well roll the dice and see if you can thwart it because you are toast otherwise.

As we've seen by his emergency declaration and so many other things: in his own mind, Trump is not bound by any rules and he rarely has been.

Whether it is from the Russian money they took in or via Kompromat like Lindsey Graham, the Republicans are complicit. We are far from any guarantee they'd impeach Trump because so many of them look like they're on the take.

[empedocles]

8. Significant clue. Fits trump pattern. Increased attaciks on Schiff.

[Stuart G]

9. You are correct..there are more attacks coming from Trump.

Can Barr fire Mueller?..Will he? Can he fire Rosenstein? Will he?
..Now, what if Trump fires them both, through Barr.. Then what? You tell me, what happens next?

[marylandblue]

11. He can fire Rosenstein for sure.

He can only fire Mueller for good cause, so would be more challenging legally and politically.

[Stuart G]

13. Let's say Barr fires Rosenstein..ok? Is that the Saturday Night massacre..like Nixon?

I don't know, as long as Muller can go forward, maybe not, maybe yes.

[marylandblue]

14. The more underhanded thing to do is block indictments and bury the report.

It will be a lot less obvious than firing Mueller. But the House may still try to subpoena the information, so it carries it's own risks.

There is also a legal issue for Barr down the road. Suppose a Democrat wins in 2020. Now all the information he tried to bury is under a new President's control. If there isn't good justification for his decisions, it could be obstruction of justice.

[Jarqui]

16. I don't trust Barr after what he has said and done

But it is possible, he's a double agent for justice. He could have talked a good story to Trump to sucker him into appointing him and turn into a hero flipping on him to bring him down.

Even if this report gets out significantly and they impeach, they need 2/3rds vote in the Senate. I'm not sure they could get that with the number of GOP Senators the Russians may own.

So it may well come down to 2020. If the Russians and GOP secretly back a third candidate to take away Dem votes, that may be the strategy to get Trump elected. As depressing as it is to contemplate, that horror of a scenario is not beyond the realm of possibility. These are evil, ruthless people.

[empedocles]

18. I don't trust Barr either. Barr apparently keeping 'for sale Whitaker' and another like type

at DOJ.

[to keep a close eye and report on Barr? At traitortrump's request?]

[However, as backward and crooked as Sessions was, he did major harm to trump, even if it was just mostly out of personal pique].

[Also, as regards a trojan horse third candidate helped by GOP/putin to hurt Dems; there seems to be plenty of ego powered such candidates around].

[bdamomma]

42. I don't trust him either.

nt

[empedocles]

20. Be good if Rosenstein reverses his decision to retire soon, force trump to publicly fire

Rosenstein - ala Watergate Saturday Night Massacre redux.

[SharonAnn]

26. Yes.

[dawnie51]

15. Read a post yesterday....

that Mueller is telling the story with his court filings and indictments. So in depth and detail laden, almost like reading a book. This is the way he is going to put the truth to the public, and it requires patience, which I lack. But I agree; Mueller has him, and he will reveal Dump in all his malignancy, so deftly that crooked AGs, and treasonous congress critters, and whomever will not be able to stop him.

[Blue Owl]

19. No better time than the present

n/t

[empedocles]

21. Patience is difficult. And, we don't have the pressures that Pelosi, Shumer and Mueller have . .

. . . or the savvy wisdom they have had, and still have.

[Takket]

23. it has been 21 months. my patience is about gone.

surely by now mueller has proof of a crime drumpf has committed. surely these is a file that has enough evidence in it that mueller's team is 90+% confident that they could get a conviction by presenting that evidence in a court of law.

let's get it out there..... get this fucker impeached.... and whether the senate removes him or the rethugs decide to tell the electorate they are cool with letting a traitor run the country, i'll leave up to them...... but let's get after it. A conviction after he is voted out in 2020 doesn't fix the damage of the last two ears or what is to come.

[Stuart G]

27. 21 months?.What is more important, making it sooner, or making Trump and the gang gone?

It is not up to you, and it is not up to me. It is up to Mueller. He wants a positive iron clad case that takes care of it once and for all...Not 90 percent, but 100 percent. With Watergate it took more than 2 years from the break in to Nixon's resignation. If it takes 2 years and 5 months for the same outcome, well I don't care. I want the same outcome. Clear evidence that Trump broke the law, and the rest of them in the slammer, including his sons. With Nixon all the gang went to jail except Nixon.

...No, it is not .."let's get the fucker impeached" What is most important is the evidence gets out there, When Mueller desires to, and all of them get convicted and put into jail. All of them except Trump who then will be impeached and thrown out or resigned. (resigned works too)

Mueller decides it all, so the outcome is ironclad and positive.

[Hoyt]

28. What's most important is getting trump out of office now. Anything else is close to failure.

[Stuart G]

30. I disagree. If Trump is gone in the summer, and things stay about the same,

that will not be a "failure." It will mean it took more time. If in May all the gang are indicted, and they are all convicted by September, and then Trump resigns, that will not be a failure. Will it be?

[Hoyt]

32. He won't be gone in summer/fall. He'll likely get another Supreme Court nomination,

maybe two, before it’s over. In meantime, he continues to screw us and the world.

And too many people are hanging on the thought Mueller will get him, just like many of us were convinced Fitzgerald would get bush/Cheney.

[triron]

29. Both of you have good points. I don't know myself. God how I loathe the m-fucker.

I realize that emotion clouds my judgement.

[Stuart G]

31. No, I lothed Nixon almost from the moment he got in..and,

I loathe this m-fucker too. When he get his fucken ass out, I want no argument about his being forced out. It must be clear to everyone that Trump conspired against the U.S.A. Now, it is clear to some of us, but the evidence must be presented so we all see it. If and when we get to 70 percent believe Trump conspired against our country, and 10 percent not sure, and 20 he did not. Then we are there..We are not there yet.

and....Yes, We are there with all of us here at Democratic Underground. OK. If we ran things, Hillary would be our President now. But we do not run things.

We do not. and guess what?...about 75 percent of the people here for certain would be better and more honest than Trump at being President. (probably closer to 85 percent) but most wouldn't even consider it.

[triron]

33. Have to agree with roughly all of what you said (besides the particular percentages).

[Grasswire2]

39. the difference is that Nixon was an institutionalist who believed in the structures of government...

....and, despite his crimes, democracy itself.

Trump has no such allegiances and intends to go Mussolini.

[Hoyt]

34. I agree. If he doesn't have necessary evidence by now, he never will.

We know trump is guilty, but too many people just don’t care. It’s quite disappointing.

[Stuart G]

35. I watched Watergate when I was young.

Almost every moment. I taught high school then, we watched the hearings in my classroom. It took time to get Nixon. It may take time to get to Trump. The evidence must be iron clad, presentable, and clear to all. And, Trump has an incredible ally in Putin. Nixon had none.

We both want the same result. The evidence must be presented in a way that "works" and gets Trump out. It also must be presented in a way that gets the other crooks too. Yes, I want all of them out now, but I want to be sure all of them are ...out That is why I am willing to wait..

Just to make sure all of them are out

Yes, we know Trump is guilty...sure..but there must be proof acceptable to all..that is not up to you or me, it is up to Mueller.

[SuprstitionAintthWay]

36. "Matter of time" equals late Jan 2021

That's when sealed felony indictments of Trump, by Mueller's grand jury, will be unsealed and served on him. The 1st day he's out of office.

I say "served"... but the FBI can serve them only if he still can be reached. He's gonna know the indictments are waiting. I've speculated for some time now that Trump's last official state visit will be to Moscow, and he'll just send the Secret Service back home in Air Force One without him. And we'll have our first president in history to have fled into exile... as so many regents and dictators have done throughout history.

(There will be no point trying to impeach Trump before then, it won't work. This isn't the 1970s. There aren't 20 Republican senators anymore with the integrity to carry out their constitutional duty and convict a criminal Republican president.)

[duforsure]

37. We already knew collusion was proven

When they knowingly went to meet with russian reps of putin to get dirt on Hillary. Its no longer collusion, and now its conspiracy against the USA. They already have more than enough to prove they actively conspired with russia and putin, and Mueller has a lot more evidence than we can imagine on them, so he and many others know trump and his criminals committed treasonous acts against OUR country. Now the question should be, will they pay for it. If we have a rule of law, a system of equal justice , they will.

[Stuart G]

38. "Collusion was Proven"...your words...game over, the only question is when will the game end..

If collusion is proven beyond doubt, and when the word gets out to most of the people in the USA, and if that collusion becomes, "conspiracy against the USA" the question becomes when will Trump be forced to resign, not if but when.

...Trump and his gang can tweet, rant, and scream all they want. And Graham can defend all he wants. It doesn't matter. When not if is the current issue.

[bdamomma]

44. it's more like

conspiracy not collusion.

[Grasswire2]

40. And then the question becomes: how to win our civil war.

Because the right promises it if Trump is removed.

[yortsed snacilbuper]

41. ditto

[bdamomma]

43. K&R

nt