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"Welfare queens" (Original Post) CousinIT Feb 2019 OP
Excellent point! whathehell Feb 2019 #1
I'd like to put that up on Facebook for my RW friends... rgbecker Feb 2019 #2
That is very funny Laf.La.Dem. Feb 2019 #3
Post It Roy Rolling Feb 2019 #4
My brother-in-law puts up crazy stuff, with so called sources.... rgbecker Feb 2019 #5
Thank you. I wanted verification too. Duppers Feb 2019 #7
Trump says undocumented immigrants are an economic burden. They pay billions in taxes. Fla Dem Feb 2019 #9
Thank you. Duppers Feb 2019 #15
I can't give you the source but.. cannabis_flower Feb 2019 #16
I found this. It might help. alwaysinasnit Feb 2019 #17
Forbes 10/6/2016: America's undocumented immigrants pay an estimated $11.64 billion YEARLY in taxes. VOX Feb 2019 #34
Nice! Soxfan58 Feb 2019 #6
IRS date 2015 spedtr90 Feb 2019 #8
We don't know if Taxcheater45 pays any taxes! nt NCjack Feb 2019 #10
That's the most important point here. llmart Feb 2019 #11
Well, you know an audit can take 25 years to complete...... oldsoftie Feb 2019 #13
Yeah, right. llmart Feb 2019 #14
Hasn't he bragged about NOT paying taxes? robbob Feb 2019 #33
VERY good question. calimary Feb 2019 #12
How do corps avoid taxes? Bigger losses in other areas of the company? nt MadDAsHell Feb 2019 #18
Defer losses to future years, carryover/carryback madville Feb 2019 #20
It's logical. You would never start an Amazon otherwise. nt MadDAsHell Feb 2019 #24
How does that work? pangaia Feb 2019 #19
They use a duplicate or stolen SS# madville Feb 2019 #22
Wouldn't the SS then go to the person whose card Raine Feb 2019 #32
Trump, too, probably paid zero struggle4progress Feb 2019 #21
Amazon and GE are most likely applying Net Operating Losses from previous years madville Feb 2019 #23
K & R SunSeeker Feb 2019 #25
We need an alternative minimum tax (AMT) for corporations! TJKay Feb 2019 #26
those are the welfare KINGS reagan ignored. pansypoo53219 Feb 2019 #27
K & R Maru Kitteh Feb 2019 #28
K&R ck4829 Feb 2019 #29
Undocumented pay closer to $20 billion tax per year Cicada Feb 2019 #30
Pop quiz for conservatives. I like it. n/t Beartracks Feb 2019 #31

rgbecker

(4,830 posts)
2. I'd like to put that up on Facebook for my RW friends...
Mon Feb 18, 2019, 09:19 AM
Feb 2019

but I need a source for the data claim. $7,000,000,000 in taxes from undocumented immigrants?

rgbecker

(4,830 posts)
5. My brother-in-law puts up crazy stuff, with so called sources....
Mon Feb 18, 2019, 09:45 AM
Feb 2019

When I click on the links they send me to malware sites or simply 401 error pages.

I was hoping to do better, as I do have a few fellow Democrats among my friends.

I did find this...thanks for your help!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States

Duppers

(28,120 posts)
7. Thank you. I wanted verification too.
Mon Feb 18, 2019, 10:16 AM
Feb 2019

I do not want to be on their level and lose credibility. Folks shouldn't joke about that.


Fla Dem

(23,655 posts)
9. Trump says undocumented immigrants are an economic burden. They pay billions in taxes.
Mon Feb 18, 2019, 10:43 AM
Feb 2019
Trump says undocumented immigrants are an economic burden. They pay billions in taxes.

Unauthorized immigrants paid more than $20 billion in income taxes in 2015.
They also fund Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.
By Alexia Fernández Campbell@AlexiaCampbellalexia@vox.com Updated Oct 25, 2018, 2:15pm EDT

One of the biggest misconceptions about undocumented immigrants is that they don’t pay any taxes. In his first address to Congress in 2017, President Donald Trump set the tone for his immigration agenda when he said immigration costs US taxpayers “billions of dollars a year.”

Two years later, he is still repeating that lie. In his State of the Union speech on Tuesday, he once again suggested that unauthorized immigrants are a burden to US taxpayers.

“Working-class Americans are left to pay the price for mass illegal immigration,” Trump said, suggesting that undocumented immigrants are using government services and programs they don’t pay for.

That’s not true. Contrary to this persistent myth, undocumented immigrants do in fact pay taxes. Millions of undocumented immigrants file tax returns each year, and they are paying taxes for many benefits they can’t even use.

More>>>>

https://www.vox.com/2018/4/13/17229018/undocumented-immigrants-pay-taxes

cannabis_flower

(3,764 posts)
16. I can't give you the source but..
Mon Feb 18, 2019, 06:09 PM
Feb 2019

Illegal immigrants either use a stolen or fake social security card, hence pay in taxes and never file for a refund. Or they apply for an EIN (Employer Identification Number) from the IRS and use that to work.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
34. Forbes 10/6/2016: America's undocumented immigrants pay an estimated $11.64 billion YEARLY in taxes.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 01:10 PM
Feb 2019

Granted, 2.5 years is a lifetime in news reporting these days (and may explain the lower estimated $$$) but this article carries weight because Forbes is anything but liberal, and therefore harder for RWers to ignore.

How Much Tax Do America's Undocumented Immigrants Actually Pay?
by Niall McCarthy
Forbes Oct 6, 2016
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2016/10/06/how-much-tax-do-americas-undocumented-immigrants-actually-pay-infographic/amp/
<snip>
According to a report from The Institute on Taxation & Economic Policy (ITEP), [undocumented workers] pay a hefty amount of state and local tax, just like other people living in the United States.

Collectively, America’s undocumented immigrants pay an estimated $11.64 billion in state and local taxes every year with at least 50 percent of undocumented immigrant households filing tax returns using Individual Tax Identification Numbers.

Many who do not file tax returns still have taxes deducted from their pay checks. Out of that $11.64 billion total, undocumented immigrants pay $6.9 billion in sales and excise taxes, $3.6 billion in property taxes and about $1.1 billion in personal income taxes. ITEP estimated that if America’s 11 million undocumented immigrants were granted citizenship allowing them to work legally, current state and tax contributions would be boosted by over $2.1 billion a year.

spedtr90

(719 posts)
8. IRS date 2015
Mon Feb 18, 2019, 10:26 AM
Feb 2019
https://www.vox.com/2018/4/13/17229018/undocumented-immigrants-pay-taxes

The most recent IRS data, from 2015, shows that the agency received 4.4 million income tax returns from workers who don’t have Social Security numbers, which includes a large number of undocumented immigrants. That year, they paid $23.6 billion in income taxes. That doesn’t even include workers who paid taxes with fake Social Security numbers on their W-2 forms, which is also common.

These undocumented workers pay taxes for benefits they can’t even use, like Social Security and Medicare. They also aren’t eligible for benefits like the earned income tax credit. But the IRS still expects unauthorized immigrants to file their taxes, and many of them do so.

llmart

(15,536 posts)
11. That's the most important point here.
Mon Feb 18, 2019, 11:20 AM
Feb 2019

We all know that there's a really good reason he wouldn't release his tax records. This meme, as powerful as it is, would be more powerful if we had proof that the idiot paid nothing in taxes but rants on and on about the "illegals" not contributing.

robbob

(3,528 posts)
33. Hasn't he bragged about NOT paying taxes?
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 12:54 PM
Feb 2019

At one of the debates with Hillary? “That’s just good business”, or something like that?

madville

(7,408 posts)
20. Defer losses to future years, carryover/carryback
Mon Feb 18, 2019, 09:18 PM
Feb 2019

I believe right now , after a rule change in 2018, you can apply losses back 2 years or forward 20 years. pre-2018 losses had no time limit. Like if Amazon had past losses of 15 billion, they can write them down in future years. So if Amazon made 11 billion this year, then could apply past losses and have $0 net income for the year and no tax burden.

Amazon wasn't even profitable until just a few years ago. So all the years with a net operating loss are benefiting them now that they are profitable.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
19. How does that work?
Mon Feb 18, 2019, 09:08 PM
Feb 2019

I mean if 'undocumented," how do they get a SS# or whatever.. to be able to even file a return?

Or does it mean in things like sales taxes?

madville

(7,408 posts)
22. They use a duplicate or stolen SS#
Mon Feb 18, 2019, 09:21 PM
Feb 2019

I believe technology has made this much harder though. They basically have stuff withheld out of their check and it used to actually benefit SS because you had all these people paying in that would never claim it later in life.

Raine

(30,540 posts)
32. Wouldn't the SS then go to the person whose card
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 04:37 AM
Feb 2019

was either stolen or duplicated since the money was withheld and put into the SS system. That money must end up going to someone.

On edit: I see it was explained further down ... apparently the government ends up with it.

madville

(7,408 posts)
23. Amazon and GE are most likely applying Net Operating Losses from previous years
Mon Feb 18, 2019, 09:24 PM
Feb 2019

Amazon wasn't even profitable until a few years ago. Prior to 2018 there was no time limit carrying losses to future years or even applying them back to past years. The rules changed for post-2018 earning though, now losses can be carried back 2 years or forward 20 years, its a great benefit for businesses.

 

TJKay

(27 posts)
26. We need an alternative minimum tax (AMT) for corporations!
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 01:16 AM
Feb 2019

And maybe there is one; I'm certainly no tax expert. But, every year, it seems we get this stories of some large, profitable companies paying nothing in taxes.

Cicada

(4,533 posts)
30. Undocumented pay closer to $20 billion tax per year
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 04:26 AM
Feb 2019

Most undocumented workers work “on the books” by supplying a social security number which is not theirs. Employers withhold payroll taxes from their wages. The $7 billion figure refers to a government calculation of the employee’s half of social security and Medicare tax, 7.65% of wages. But economists tell us that realistically the employee pays both halves, the 7.65% withheld from the employee’s half but also the matching 7.65% sent in as the “employer’s half.” That is because employers are indifferent to the composition of total employee compensation. If there were no employer’s half of 7.65% the employer would just give that part to the employee as additional wages. The employee is worth 100% of wages plus 7.65% employer match to the employer and the employer will pay to whoever gets it the full amount the employee is worth. So the real payer of both halves is the employee. So undocumented really pay twice the seven billion, or 14 billion. But undocumented also pay state and local taxes. The Tax Foundation calculates that averages about 8% of wages for the undocumented. That’s another $7 billion or so. Sales tax, gas tax, alcohol tax, car tax, other taxes. But there is more. Many undocumented get an individual tax identification number, ITIN, other than a social security number to file form 1040. Any person on earth can get an individual tax identification number to pay US taxes they owe. They do this to document their compliance with US tax laws at a time they may be permitted to file an application to legally reside in the US. More tax is paid this way. How do we know undocumented pay $7 billion plus $7 billion social security and Medicare tax? When the social security number does not match the name for the number, after efforts to resolve the discrepancy, it goes into the Social Security Suspense Fund, thought to be almost exclusively from the undocumented. The amount in that fund is growing about $14 billion per year.

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