Many of us might find ourselves with a Bernie/Biden problem.

[WeekiWater]

There is still a lot of time, and Biden hasn't entered, but I do see something happening if he does.

I am convinced with our current field that Sanders can lose almost half of his support from last go around in the early states and still do extremely well. Possibly even win. That is not a far stretch with twelve plus candidates, six or more being well funded, with the perception that they are true contenders. I don't think many of those in my corner, the anti-Sanders corner, are really thinking that out. I think that is the way things will shake out. Maybe they are thinking it out and that is why the response to him entering has been so strong.

So lets say Biden jumps in. He will be extremely well funded and will immediately be at or near the top. He will have strong connections and a very strong team. I truly think if he jumps in it will become a race between he and Sanders, leaving our parties best back in the lurch. I don't think Sanders or Biden are even close to the best we have to offer. That is my opinion. Please don't get me wrong, I think Biden is an exemplary human being. That is not what I mean when I say I don't think he is even close to the best we have to offer. I think Biden simply benefits from the fact that he had such a close relationship with someone we all hold up on a pedestal. President Obama. Biden is no Obama.

So if it does become something along those lines I think people like me are going to have a difficult choice in the primaries. No one wants to throw their vote away in a primary and primary votes can be used to stop someone. But who? I truly don't know who I would vote for if it looks like a two way race when it gets to Florida. I really think some people are going to be shocked at how well Sanders does and how that really can create a two person field, out of necessity, pretty quickly. I truly dislike Sanders. I have made no secret of that. But I am much more in-line with him ideologically than I am with Biden, when Biden's whole career is looked at. Biden is an overall economic conservative and I think that is not what we need. At all. Seems people have forgotten many of Biden's past positions on economic issues. I would really be torn.

I don't think I'm the only one who sees how this very well could play out. I was extremely happy about our primary field until Sanders jumped in. He is filling no void at all. If Biden jumps in I really feel some of those I like most will be pushed to the side. It will become the Biden Sanders show. They will be the best funded and have the strongest teams. I cannot vote for an economic conservative unless it is in the general and I have to. Call me ageist, I really don't care. I wish the old white mans club would sit this one out.

[dogman]

1. "Call me ageist, I really don't care."

Strange take. Insert "sexist', "racist", whatever, in place of ageist.

[WeekiWater]

2. No need to insert any of those.

I don’t mind using age as a criteria when looking at primary contenders. Minimum age is set in stone.

[Dennis Donovan]

3. Joe has an easy 20+ yrs in front of him...

...and I'm starting to see a pattern in posts regarding age, and promoting divisiveness.

Not you, of course, but EVERY DUer needs to see this OP: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211843261

[WeekiWater]

4. I cannot make that guess about Biden.

I believe he already stated he would be in it for one term.

I have very little concern about using age in the manner I have. Ageism is written into the process from the start.

I had read that op. It should be expected and we need to be aware of it. It shouldn't stifle conversation at places like DU.

[Dennis Donovan]

5. I know you wouldn't do that.

[bdamomma]

39. One term and then

he could get our next democratic candidate waiting in the wings he has a good choice for VP's. Just saying.

[WeekiWater]

44. I would prefer to have an incumbent. Not a candidate in waiting planning on winning the primary.

I would even prefer to have Biden as VP again with someone else at the top of the ticket. I do think a strong case can be made that Biden knows the federal government inside and out and would be a good person to help restore order. That can be done from the VP slot.

[bdamomma]

47. We will see

what will happen.

[BlueStater]

6. He's 76 now.

So you expect him to live to be 96? That's a pretty bold prediction, I have to say.

[Dennis Donovan]

8. It's 2019, not 1919...

...most people I know have lived into their 90's (or very close).

[LanternWaste]

13. When all else fails, reliance on anecdotal evidence

When all else fails, reliance on anecdotal evidence will often allow us the pretense of propping up our sacred cows (or very close...).

[Dennis Donovan]

14. Post Joe's obit...

...and I'll give you this point, sparky.

[rzemanfl]

58. Now I am really confused. n/t

[Codeine]

68. Actually, current male life expectancy in the US

is a bit shy of 80 years.

[Dennis Donovan]

69. For smokers and drinkers, maybe...

Joe's done neither. He has a good 15 yrs ahead of him.

[not_the_one]

7. Implying there is a correlation is absurd.

I am 67, male, white, (not to mention gay and atheist) and I don't want to elect an old white man, going forward. Been there, done that.

turdface has now put us into such a position that the old solutions of the past are no longer applicable.

We need new blood, and new solutions.

[Dennis Donovan]

10. But we've never faced this kind of national security threat from 1600...

...we need to FIX this! Then , we can work on other things.

[Act_of_Reparation]

22. Except it isn't.

Sexism and racism are forms of systemic oppression, where enforced inequality is sewn into the very fabric of society. "Ageism", in this context, is a fiction cooked up to lock young people out of positions of authority.

Pro-tip: You can't be the victim of oppression when you're the one in power.

[dogman]

34. Young people in that case are also victims of ageism.

Age can obviously be a factor for consideration, but exclusion based on age alone is not fair. Do you think poor old white men are not abused because their age or color protect them?

[Act_of_Reparation]

41. Which is exactly what I said.

As indicated by the words "in this context".

We're not talking about a 54 year old locked out of the job market because of their age.

[ripcord]

9. I have no problem with Biden

I have said before my dream ticket would be Biden/Harris.

[WeekiWater]

12. I think he is one of the best men to have graced DC.

I would much prefer Harris for President. I would much prefer Harris with the economy.

[bdamomma]

40. yes

or Biden/Booker. We have many outstanding candidates. Even Sherrod Brown he strikes me as a very humble and smart man.

[ripcord]

59. I think any of those you named

Would be great and really benefit from serving as VP under Biden.

[NurseJackie]

11. I'll only vote for someone who can put-in EIGHT full years...

I'll only vote for someone who can put-in (and survive the rigors of) EIGHT full years... no "placeholder" or "transitional" presidencies for me.

[WeekiWater]

15. I feel we have such a strong field that a placeholder shouldn't even be considered.

I'm really excited about multiple candidates. I wish Sanders would have sat out. There is no reason for him to have entered. I love Biden but hope he doesn't enter.

[NurseJackie]

16. You and I think the same!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. What if Biden is the only Dem who can stop Bernie and prevent a general election loss?

[Demsrule86]

27. That is what I think. thus, I will vote for VP Biden.

[Garrett78]

56. One of the goofiest ideas promoted by some on DU is this idea of a transitional president.

Yes, let's nominate someone who would take office at 78 (older than Reagan when Reagan *left* office) but tell people he will hand over the reins in 4 years because everyone is right to be concerned with his age. And, in the process, we essentially lose the advantage of incumbency in 2024. Bloody brilliant.

[Demsrule86]

29. I will vote for someone who can win in 20. Sanders has the name recognition to take the primary but

in my opinion won't win a general. Biden can pick a good vice president.

[NurseJackie]

31. Do either of them have the stamina to last for four years?

Asking for a friend, but it's something I'd be interested in knowing too. Obviously, nobody can predict the future, but we can certainly make informed guesses if all candidates are open and honest enough to include their medical history and current physical report along with their FULL tax returns for the past ten years.

[Demsrule86]

32. I don't know but a Democrat will replace them. We have to win in 20. We will end up with

Sanders I fear if Biden does not jump in and Sanders won't win a general. I am convinced of it.

[NurseJackie]

35. Technically true (regarding the replacement) but many voters may be unlikely to...

Technically true (regarding the replacement) but many voters may be unlikely to want to vote for someone they perceive as being "sickly" or lacking stamina or energy. All things considered, I believe it's more likely that an obese Trump is more likely to win over anyone who appears to be frail or gaunt.

[Demsrule86]

66. Biden has not been sickly...his Mom lived to be over a 100. I want to win. If Biden can deliver a

win...I will vote for him.

[NurseJackie]

67. Okay.

[bdamomma]

42. for sure.

he has a lot to choose from. You never know Kamala could be chosen for any cabinet position.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

17. I'm going to support the Democrat who is most able to beat Trump in the Electoral College.

That's it. We must win in 2020.

If the situation is then what it is now, we'd have a very tough road with anyone but Joe Biden, in my estimation, winning the electoral college.

This is a very different situation with Biden. He'd destroy Trump in the critical states we lost in 2020. And put red states in play.

This Democrat doesn't want 4 more years of Donald Trump. I'm supporting the Democrat I'm convinced would beat him, and beat him badly.

[WeekiWater]

18. I think this might be the debate I end up having with myself.

I'm in Florida so I will have time to see how the field shakes out. I really hope it isn't a simple two person race by the time it gets to me but I do see that as a strong possibility.

[DFW]

20. It only becomes the Biden-Sanders show if the media makes it that way.

Otherwise, it would probably become (as things stand now) the Biden-Harris-Klobuchar show.

EXCEPT..............

A year from now, things will almost surely look completely different, so I am not even going to get into "the current status of the race."

At THIS moment, I see Gillibrand, Castro, Warren and Sanders as having no more chance of getting the nomination than my cat. And I don't even have a cat. But there could always be a real-life Matt Santos surprise, so never say never.

[WeekiWater]

21. I believe the media will cover Sanders more than anyone else.

For numerous reasons. If Biden gets in I think the media will try to make it a horse race between the two.

[DFW]

25. Completely unjustified, but probably so.

"Grumpy Old Men Come To Washington," except that Joe Biden is rarely grumpy.

[bdamomma]

43. I like Biden

did anyone see him at that conference in Germany

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/16/politics/biden-showcases-foreign-policy-munich/index.html

I need this kind of hope again, we all do.

snip of article.

"I strongly support NATO. I believe it is the single most significant military alliance in the world," he said. "I think it is the basis upon which we have been able to keep peace and stability for the past 70 years. It is the heart of our collective security."
"The America I see values basic human decency, not snatching children from their parents or turning our back on refugees on the border," Biden said to applause.

He later added, "This is the core of our identity, the very character of the American spirit and our own self-interest, and I promise you, I promise you, as my mother would say, this too shall pass. We will be back. We will be back. Don't have any doubt about that."

[DFW]

52. I've always liked him

He has not declared, and I suspect he is not eager to jump in at this point. Having served as Obama's VP makes him the most qualified, but who knows if that translates as the best president? Plus, a year and a half at his age may or may not bring new health questions, something I am sure he is only too aware of. I doubt he'd want to jump in this early only to have to bow out later on. In his position, I'd be doing just what he is now--holding off making any announcements one way or the other.

I did not see him when he was here. He was down in Bavaria, and I was taking a much-needed weekend off up here at the other end of Germany (Rheinland, near the Dutch border).

[Autumn]

23. The only problem I will have is if Biden doesn't jump in the race.

He and Bernie are a big pluses and both fill a void I don't see the others as yet filling. IMO

[WeekiWater]

26. I don't know what that void would be.

Sanders is filling no void. His positions aren't to the left of at least two other candidates who I would consider to be more accomplished. Biden wouldn't be filling a void. We have at least one candidate further to the right of him economically, possibly two.

[Autumn]

33. They do to me. Both he and Biden fill a void. Bernie on economic issues and climate change

and Biden has the ability and credentials as Obama's trusted VP for 8 years to repair the harm Trump has done to us on the world stage with our allies.

[WeekiWater]

36. I see your point about Biden.

I don't see the void you mention with Sanders.

[Autumn]

37. You might not see the void Sanders fills for me, but I see it. Clear as a bell. nt

[bdamomma]

45. Good ole Bernie

he was great on domestic issues, I did vote for him in our state primary hell, he won in our state of RI.

But I quickly jumped over to Hillary. But then again, back in 2008 I was for Biden until President Obama came in on the scene, loved his vision and his intelligence which is sorely missing now.

Biden has knowledge of both domestic and foreign issues. We need to be healed and we need to get this dictator out, and Russian influence out.

[Autumn]

46. You got it.

[bdamomma]

48. Remember when Biden said

he could beat up tRump under the bleachers, hmm.... I don't want him to "beat up" tRump under the bleachers, I want to beat him period.

[Autumn]

49. That cracked me up. Only Joe.

I want Trump beat and humiliated here and on the world stage. I want him whimpering and crying in the corner of a dirty omelet bar at his shitty golf course.

[Demsrule86]

24. I am voting for Biden the Democrat. I will not vote for Sanders in a primary.

I would not vote for anyone else so as not to dilute the vote and make Sen. Sanders the candidate because I fear he won't win a general even though he would have my vote.

[WeekiWater]

28. You get what I'm saying. Thank you.

Even if the decision is a bit easier for you I see you get the gist of how I see things possibly going down.

[BlueStater]

30. The future of the Democratic Party does not lie with two 80-year-old white guys.

I wish they would have done the right thing and pass the torch, but, unfortunately, it appears their egos aren't going to allow them to do so.

[Garrett78]

57. And they're probably just as mistakenly enamored with name recognition polls as many on DU.

[loyalsister]

38. Time to move on

There are many practical reasons to want a younger president. Limits on life expectancy are based on biological realities. We may not have fixed expiration dates, but we all wear out and die. Longer life expectancy means living longer with declining physical and mental conditions.
There's also something to be said for having a president who is likely to live at least 20 years after their presidencies. Not only should they have to think about the country they will live in, I think they should have to see the lasting effects if what they did. Take W. He probably didn't count on watching these wars for most of the rest of his life. Or, of learning about suicide rates and PTSD he played a role in leaving behind. I surely wish he wouldn't have fallen in line with the neocons but I'm glad he has to be here to see the damage he did by going along with republican oil agenda, taking the NRA pledge........

[politicaljunkie41910]

50. You repeatedly state in every paragraph how you don't like Bernie, but you spend the rest of each

paragraph citing why he's a shoe in over Biden. Are you SURE you're not a Bernie Bro leftover from 2016? I'll be honest with you. I'm not a fan of Bernie and I have no plans to vote for him because I believe he's why we have Trump now. He's not a member of the Democratic Party and he's primarily responsible for the disruption caused at our Convention in 2016. His followers were disrupters in Nevada, and Bernie was the disrupter at our Convention. He pouted the entire Convention and his endorsement for Hillary was less than enthusiastic. Had we not had to continuously be having to fight the same battles over and over with the Bernie Bros, perhaps Hillary could have made that trip to Wisconsin that some blame her as the reason for her loss. Had we not been distracted fighting the same old battles, perhaps someone might have noticed the fake Russian posts on Facebook and warned people that we were being played. But that couldn't happen because we were too busy fighting the same old battles with people who couldn't bother to join our Party, but wanted to run it.

[WeekiWater]

51. Please show me where I did this one single time.

"citing why he's a shoe in over Biden"

[politicaljunkie41910]

60. Sorry to just now be getting back to you, I was babysitting my grand baby while her parents are at

work and was only now able to get back to you. I'm sorry if I mischaracterized your post and I apologize.

[WeekiWater]

61. Grand baby!

I hope it was a wonderful time.

[politicaljunkie41910]

64. Thank you. I really misjudged you and I'm glad you let me know. It won't happen again.

[Moostache]

53. One thing bothers me about Biden's to-date non-candidacy...

It would NOT be a third Obama term, and I think a lot of the feel good about "Uncle Joe" is remaining from his time being seen as a wizened mentor to President Obama. I recognize that he is a dedicated public servant and has sacrificed and lost a lot, but right now its all speculation and a longing within many to go back to the days when the news did not start with "And breaking news today in Washington as the President..."

If he gets in and puts forth a winning agenda and platform, and gets the nomination, I will support that candidate...but rose-colored glasses and picking winners this far out is dangerous at best.

[Deb]

54. And so I would ask myself, "Who did Obama already choose?"

[Garrett78]

55. I agree that both are far from our best option, but I don't agree with your forecast.

The field may consist of 20+ heading into the first debate this June, but well before Super Tuesday on 3/3/20 the field will be down to half a dozen at most.

In Iowa and New Hampshire, how votes are split may have more to do with demographics (region, race, sex, etc.) and perceptions about policy positions than with actual policy positions or ideology. For instance, Warren, Sanders and Biden will probably make it tougher on one another in New Hampshire with all 3 of them being from New England.

And, after New Hampshire, many won't have the funds or the justification to continue. Sanders will essentially be eliminated from contention if he were to, say, finish no better than 3rd in Iowa and New Hampshire. The same goes for Warren, Klobuchar, Brown and maybe even Biden.

[disillusioned73]

62. As interesting as I find your ideological

alignment, yet disdain for the one your more aligned with - I guess that's neither her nor there at this point... I'm skeptical that Biden will jump in... why didn't he run in 2016?? - it was perfect for him, Obama would have given him a full throated endorsement and he would have probably coasted to the nomination..what's different now?? 4 years later I would think he would have settled into retirement by now.. but hey who know the reasons these politicians do the things they do..

[Blue_true]

63. Both have a right to run if they want to.

I don't see things panning out the way you do. I can see a situation where a candidate like Klobuchar slips under the radar and before anyone know it, she has the nomination pretty much sewn up. Our last THREE democratic Presidents started the nomination fight as very much darkhorses, but caught fire. After Klobuchar's entry in a blizzard, if she shows dogged determination on the campaign trial, going everywhere on the weekend and holidays and still doing her Senate duties, that image could crystallize in people's mind and give her the important advantage - she already comes off as the likeable local girl that went on to do well, if a lot of people begin to see her that way, she is going to be tough to beat. Her answer to the mean boss meme that popped up about her basically put that rumor to sleep, some people will view her as a skillful fighter because of that, a democrat who can stand toe to toe with Trump, brush off his insults and take him down. It interesting that I am writing this (not really, I am an annonymous person on the Internet), but last night I dreamed that she was in the General against Trump and wiped him out. I had not supported her or even thought much about her other than her campaign kickoff event and how she handled the mean boss issue. I really have not followed her much other than to surmise that she seem to be consistently underrated, but often rise up to make her presence known.

[Wounded Bear]

65. I dont'...

I guess I'll vote for them if all my Dem brothers and sisters elect them to be the candidate.

But I prefer one of the women, myself.