Is vaping itself harmful?

[Recursion]

Just an argument I keep having. What's the reason for saying teens can't vape or use nicotine gum. Are either of those themselves harmful?

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

1. Nicotine can be very harmful.

We don't have enough data for long-term problems. At least those of us who are trying to quit smoking are no longer sucking smoke from burning leaves into our lungs. I feel better since quitting smoking, but the Nicotine addiction is still strong.

[Recursion]

2. Can it? What harms are associated with nicotine itself? (nt)

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

4. Here is a summary of detailed studies

from the National Institutes of Health

Nicotine is well known to have serious systemic side effects in addition to being highly addictive. It adversely affects the heart, reproductive system, lung, kidney etc. Many studies have consistently demonstrated its carcinogenic potential. [Table 1] The only other known use of nicotine has been as an insecticide since 17th century.[4] After World War II, its use has declined owing to the availability of cheaper, more potent pesticides that are less harmful to mammals. The environment Protection Agency of United States has banned use of nicotine as a pesticide from 1st January 2014.[4] India, one of the largest producer and exporter of nicotine sulphate, has progressively banned its use as agricultural pesticide.[5] We undertook this review to evaluate the systemic adverse effects of nicotine.

[Recursion]

10. So, it seems slightly safer than caffeine, if I'm reading that right (nt)

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

71. Yeah, and my cardiologist bugs me about caffeine as well.

Thanks for the reply.

But try puffing one cigarette's worth on a vape stick. Check heart rate before and after.

Do the same before and after a cup of coffee or caffeine drink.

[ismnotwasm]

6. It's a vasoconstrictor for one

[Poiuyt]

9. Nicotine is used as a pesticide

[Recursion]

11. So is vinegar (nt)

[Hekate]

120. A single cigarette can kill a 2-yo child that eats it. A glassful of vinegar will not.

FYI in case you've never raised a baby, they put things in their mouths all the time, especially if they see their parents putting something in their mouths.

[happybird]

130. Yep. We have to watch one of our cats

She's into mint, menthol, and camphor like how some cats are into catnip. My hubby smokes menthol cigarettes.

We have to be very, very careful none are ever left out and to clear all butts away immediately. I once caught her licking a loose cigarette and it scared the crap out of us. She's only 12 lbs, we're lucky it didn't kill her.

(Also, mint candy and gum and anything with xylitol in it)

[Blue_true]

60. How do you deal with the nicotine addiction?

What times of the day or night, or situations (work stress, family stress, ect) does it bother you most?

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

73. The same as with cigarettes

1. At a sidewalk cafe when the smell floats by.
2. Drinking coffee anywhere.
3. Stress where the source is external.

[Drahthaardogs]

146. No it's not

I'm a toxicologist. Nicotine is not harmful. Does it have effects in some people that COULD be harmful? Yes, but those are caused by other diseasrs that are exacerbated by nicotine.

[Dennis Donovan]

3. The emissions from it chased me out of our smoke shack at work...

...meaning the clouds of steam (or whatever it is) became choking in a manner MUCH more annoying that the occasional cigarette smoke cough. I quit smoking about 15 yrs ago (patches and gum), only to start back at it after a lengthy recovery from an auto accident.

I'm not a fan of vaping due to the voluminous emissions, and how it made me choke.

[jayfish]

22. Uhh huh...

[Dennis Donovan]

26. You're a vaper, apparently?

Enjoy that nondescript cloud surrounding you.

[SoCalNative]

28. All devicces don't create large clouds

the JUUL creates no more than a cigarette.

[Dennis Donovan]

30. Maybe, but those devices emit huge amounts of "what the fuck is that" smoke...

I'm NOT defending smoking tobacco. But this whole "vaping is better" is simply nonsense. Ask ANY health care provider. It's just another looming branch on the tree of public health issues.

[jayfish]

33. You don't know what you're talking about.

It's not smoke and vaping is better in every measurable category compared to smoking. Also, we have a pretty good grasp on what's in the vapor.

[Dennis Donovan]

35. We'll see in a few years...

Vaping isn't a heath concern choice, it's a fad and more dangerous than smoking.

Tellya what. Let's meet in Times Square in 2032. If you're there alone, well, then I'm an asshole (already proven ) But if I'm there smoking a butt? Well, you have to nominate me Dem nominee for POTUS. )

[jayfish]

39. I'll Take You Up On That But;

you are out of your mind if you are still smoking and vaping is most definitely a health choice. I smoked for 25 years and dipped snuff for 27. I tired everything outside of hypnosis to quit and nothing worked. Withing a week of starting to vape I was done with smokes and dip and my health is that of a non-smoker. I've had, maybe, 10 cigarettes since I started vaping. YOU ARE BEING LIED TO BY A CABAL THAT WANTS YOU TO KEEP SMOKING AND YOU ARE FALLING FOR ALL OF IT.

[Dennis Donovan]

43. There's not vaping cabals?

I'm not dissing vaping over smoking, but to claim one is healthier over the other isn't being honest.

[jayfish]

47. No, there really isn't.

Vaping is pretty grass-roots.

As far as the health claim:

E-cigarettes around 95% less harmful than tobacco estimates landmark review

An expert independent evidence review published today by Public Health England (PHE) concludes that e-cigarettes are significantly less harmful to health than tobacco and have the potential to help smokers quit smoking.

Key findings of the review include:

the current best estimate is that e-cigarettes are around 95% less harmful than smoking
nearly half the population (44.8%) don’t realise e-cigarettes are much less harmful than smoking
there is no evidence so far that e-cigarettes are acting as a route into smoking for children or non-smokers

The review, commissioned by PHE and led by Professor Ann McNeill (King’s College London) and Professor Peter Hajek (Queen Mary University of London), suggests that e-cigarettes may be contributing to falling smoking rates among adults and young people. Following the review PHE has published a paper on the implications of the evidence for policy and practice.

[Dennis Donovan]

55. El Chapo link!

http://elchapoapparel.com/vaping devices

You see i'm riffing on this, no?

[Act_of_Reparation]

90. I'd sooner nominate a cinderblock.

The cinderblock doesn't understand medical science, but at least it doesn't think it does.

[Dennis Donovan]

91. Thanks for the PA!

Apparently, that's all you got, Sparky...

[Act_of_Reparation]

92. All I got for you, slick.

You're wrong, and demonstrably so. Anyone who knows anything about anything already knows it. If you're already convinced you're correct, and everyone else already knows you're wrong, why in the galloping blue fuck would I waste my time running you through remedial chemistry and biology?

Run along, now. There's some clouds in need of an old man to yell at them.

[Dennis Donovan]

93. Another PA?

....filled with inaccuracies?

Run along now? How cute. See ya in Times Square, kiddo!

[Act_of_Reparation]

100. "Ridicule is the only weapon which may be used against unintelligible propositions."

- Thomas Jefferson

[Mariana]

41. Would you describe how they emit smoke, please?

Hint: You can't, because they don't. There is no combustion, so they do not produce any smoke, by definition.

[Dennis Donovan]

49. They drag on a device and then I can't breathe or see shit.

It triggers an asthmatic thing that cigarette smoke never did. I've smoked since 1979 and never had a "smoker's cough" until I had to inhale that fruity crap second-hand.

[Mariana]

51. You said they emit smoke. They don't.

It is possible to discuss the issue of vaping and its effects honestly. It really doesn't help your case to spread lies.

[Dennis Donovan]

54. They emit "steam"

...in a most steam-punkian way!

[SoCalNative]

109. And again

not everyone vapes the "fruity crap" or other flavors. Some of us use the tobacco flavor in an effort to cut down on ciagrettes and eventually quit them all together.

The tobaco flavored liquid or pods emits next to no odor.

[backscatter712]

142. That's called vapor/mist, not smoke.

There are no combustion products in the output of vaping devices.

[Doremus]

69. Or ask a former 35-year 3 pack a day smoker

Only way I could quit (and I tried for YEARS) was to get myself a first-generation e-cig.

It mimicked the hand/mouth/throat/lung feel enough that I was able to once and for all stop the dirty habit that was literally killing me. By tapering the amount of nicotine in the juice I was able to wean off of that chemical after about 6 months, then totally off the 0% nicotine and all e-cigs after about 2 years. This was 10 years ago.

Yes, vaping is better, FAR BETTER, than cancer sticks. Water vapor over several different carcinogens? YES x 1000. Anyone who says otherwise is either lying to themselves or never had a debilitating smoking habit.

[Dennis Donovan]

70. I'm at 40 yrs...

[Doremus]

74. Apparently your lungs are still pliable enough to inhale and exhale the smoke.

Mine were going south pretty fast. That and asthmatic bronchitis pretty much prohibited normal breathing for me.

Why you'd prefer potentially ending your life via 100% carcinogenic tars vs. (possible/vague/unknown) water vapor is the burning question I have. And it's maybe one you should be asking yourself.

[Dennis Donovan]

77. The devil you know...

I'm ?old? @ 53, but the kids of my buds are hitting their 30's now and having respiratory issues. At the same age, after smoking over-the-counter cigarettes, kids have smoker's coughs like I never heard from my generation.

Look, kids want to vape vs tobacco? great!!But there are consequences to come...

[Doremus]

81. Kids? I'm 64.

Quit analogs when I was your age, finally enabled by my savior e-cigs.

I had respiratory issues my entire adult life. I was smoking duhhhh. Got the cancer sticks out of my life and I can breathe again.

Don't disparage our lifesavers please. Especially not with a nasty cigarette butt hanging from your lips. It makes you look silly.

[Dennis Donovan]

80. I was Dx'd with asthma when I was 30

...but I jumped on my bike(cycle) and rode 20 mi a day.

It worked splendidly until that one... *GACK*

In Memoriam...
Cooley Hurd
1965-2019(?)

[UniteFightBack]

83. First mistake is calling it smoke. I won't bother running down the rest. nt

[Dennis Donovan]

87. It's chemical-laden steam...

...and causes people to choke.

[samnsara]

65. it should just smell like steam...but I vape weed not nicotine so maybe..

...a diff odor.

[Dennis Donovan]

66. No, it was choking, thick, and (likely) not healthy at all

However, many have described cigarette smoke in the same way. So, Zero-sum.

[The Truth Is Here]

101. Me too!

I occasionally will smoke a joint but vaping is the way to go. I have a nice YouCan Evolve Plus pen for my vape needs. Im a wax guy.

[Inkfreak]

112. does a misty morning make you flee indoors?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

5. For vaping, there's the risk of nicotine dependence. Other risk are associated with vaping, such as

lipoid pneumonia and an increased incidence of other respiratory complications.

I don't think there are many risks with nicotine gum beyond dependence or addiction.

[Cetacea]

36. Loss of dental fillings. eom

[jayfish]

50. Can you cite your assertions?

Particularly regarding the respiratory complications?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

57. The respiratory complications are only "associated with," aka correlated.

Mayo, Johns Hopkins and other big-name health providers report such links.

[uponit7771]

7. Popcorn Lung depending on the flavoring, that's about it.

[dewsgirl]

103. I heard about this in relation to JUUL pods the other day.

Is it the same for vaping?

[Mariana]

8. Should teens be permitted to vape with zero nicotine fluid?

This is one of the problems I see with these arguments. When you see someone vaping, there's no way to know whether they are actually using nicotine.

[jayfish]

24. As an alternative to ever starting to smoke,...

they should be able to use whether infused with nicotine or not.

[safeinOhio]

12. A couple of days ago I saw and article saying

that vaping works better than gum or patches for quitting cigs. Like twice as good.

[MineralMan]

13. I don't think anyone really knows yet.

The reason, however, for banning vaping, has nothing to do with any of that. It has to do with adults not liking to see kids sucking on things for enjoyment. Cigarettes, eCigs, or anything else, really. It's a control issue.

What will happen if they ban vaping is that the kids will smoke tobacco cigarettes, like they have done before. They might not be able to buy them for themselves, but there's always someone around who will buy it for them. You know...those older guys who like to hang around teenagers for one reason or another. The Fonzies.

[Mariana]

16. Some adults don't like to see other adults using e-cigs.

I'm convinced that for many of those, it's because they can't stand that people are quitting smoking painlessly, and are even enjoying the process. They want smokers to suffer, even after they've quit.

[Cetacea]

37. Yes.

Like the people who want to see people work for their 16 dollar a month food stamp benefit.

[MineralMan]

82. I think you're right.

There was a brief time when vaping was allowed in airports. While waiting for a flight, I walked to the end of the terminal and sat in an empty gate area, using my tablet and vaping. Some guy walked over from two gates away to scold me.

I just looked at him and said, "Really? You walked all the way over here to tell me you disapprove. How small is that?" Then I stared at him until he left.

[CTyankee]

86. The only person I know who vapes is a woman in our tailgate group for Ivy League games at

the Yale Bowl here in New Haven. It doesn't seem to bother anyone. But our group gathers outdoors and that might make a difference...

[pnwmom]

14. There is research saying that nicotine can affect the developing brain. So though nicotine

isn't as bad as cigarettes, and even might have some uses as a drug, it shouldn't be ingested or inhaled by teens (or ideally, young adults, since brains continue to develop into the twenties.)

And nicotine is addictive to people of all ages, especially when inhaled.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-nicotine-all-bad/

Pure nicotine can be lethal in sufficient quantities. There is some evidence it may lead to changes in adolescent brain development, especially to the part responsible for intelligence, language and memory.

[Recursion]

15. I mean, you could say the same thing about caffeine, right? (nt)

[Mariana]

17. Well, that's totally different. Somehow. nt.

[pnwmom]

19. I didn't think teens were supposed to drink coffee. I still don't,

because I don't like how it feels.

[Mariana]

45. Who told you teens aren't supposed to drink coffee? nt.

[pnwmom]

67. Back in the old days they used to say

that caffeine would stunt our growth.

I don't remember where I heard it, but it was what parents said. When I finally had coffee, it made me too wired, so I didn't feel like I'd been missing anything.

[MrsCoffee]

96. Yup, I was told the same thing.

Of course we didn’t have 31 flavors of Starbucks either. I didn’t know many young people who even liked coffee.

[Mariana]

115. Fascinating. They sold caffeinated drinks at my high school.

That was in the 1980's.

[Codeine]

89. It was definitely a thing in my family.

Weird as it sounds, I grew up in an environment where teens were discouraged from drinking coffee. Looking back I don’t think it was ever explained.

[Mariana]

114. I went to high school in the 1980's.

Caffeinated beverages were available for the students to purchase right on the campus.

[Codeine]

123. Me too, which is why it's so weird.

We could buy soda or tea, but not coffee. It wasn’t a logic-driven situation, I assure you.

[Mariana]

133. Well, neither is the crusade against vaping logic-driven. nt.

[Cetacea]

40. Conversly, there is research that suggests it prevents dementia

But it seems that every study is contradicted by another lately. As far as developing brains are concerned, I'm more concerned about the FDA's December 26 decision to lessen restrictions on giving teenagers shock therapy, more kindly referred to as ECT.

[jayfish]

42. Hint:

Don't look at American studies. The playing field here is heavily tipped in the direction of Big Tobacco. Rely on the UK, Sweden and others for unbiased research on the subject.

[Cetacea]

46. I agree. And I try for the most part. Thanks

[jayfish]

52. I Hate to Sound Conspiratorial But;

the Tobacco industry and associated lobby are some of the worst actors in American history.

[Demit]

58. Nicotine can be lethal in sufficient quantities? Of course! So can water.

As you certainly know, the dose makes the poison.

[Hekate]

119. My kids were both hooked at age 12 by the Joe Camel ad campaign, which was aimed at their age group

Someone snarked about caffeine. All I can say without being vulgar is that me without caffeine is nothing like my now-43 yo daughter without cigarettes. She was completely unable to quit during her pregnancies -- though I think she "cut back"

[Meowmee]

18. Nicotine is harmful and so is vaping

Last edited Wed Feb 20, 2019, 06:12 PM - Edit history (1)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4363846/



Nicotine poses several health hazards. There is an increased risk of cardiovascular, respiratory, gastrointestinal disorders. There is decreased immune response and it also poses ill impacts on the reproductive health. It affects the cell proliferation, oxidative stress, apoptosis, DNA mutation by various mechanisms which leads to cancer. It also affects the tumor proliferation and metastasis and causes resistance to chemo and radio therapeutic agents. The use of nicotine needs regulation. The sale of nicotine should be under supervision of trained medical personnel.


Nicotine is well known to have serious systemic side effects in addition to being highly addictive. It adversely affects the heart, reproductive system, lung, kidney etc. Many studies have consistently demonstrated its carcinogenic potential. [Table 1] The only other known use of nicotine has been as an insecticide since 17th century.[4] After World War II, its use has declined owing to the availability of cheaper, more potent pesticides that are less harmful to mammals. The environment Protection Agency of United States has banned use of nicotine as a pesticide from 1st January 2014.[4] India, one of the largest producer and exporter of nicotine sulphate, has progressively banned its use as agricultural pesticide.[5] We undertook this review to evaluate the systemic adverse effects of nicotine.

[aidbo]

20. I quit smoking tobacco before vaping was a thing, but found that vaping cannabis makes me cough..

..much more than smoking cannabis flower. Most people I know have no problem with it, but it just gets me into coughing fits.

[jayfish]

21. 95% Less Harmful Than Tobacco

E-cigarettes around 95% less harmful than tobacco estimates landmark review

Most, if not all, studies related to the harmful effects of nicotine have to do with combusted tobacco not nicotine itself. Nicotine occurs naturally in:

Tomatoes
potatoes
Eggplants
Green peppers

Nicotine

[USALiberal]

25. But just as annoying to be around. nt

[jayfish]

31. I find Trump supporters, perfume and flatulence annoying.

We can't ban things over an annoyance though. That being said; when in public I try to be as non-annoying as possible. Also, I've been vaping for 8 years and I've never come across anyone blowing huge clouds of vapor anywhere outside of a vape shop. I take peoples whining about it with a grain of salt.

[USALiberal]

32. I know some teens doing it who never would of started smoking. Not a good thing. nt

[jayfish]

34. I'm sure no adult in my life would have ever dreamed I would smoke.

I did. Fact is, once they step out the door you have no idea what kids are going to do.

[Mariana]

116. I've never met a genuine clairvoyant in real life.

Yet, it appears we have one in this thread.

[LuckyCharms]

139. My doctors agree. More than one of my doctors have stated...

that the danger lies in the combustion inherent in cigarette smoking.

[NightWatcher]

23. Is it safe for my kid to be in the same room with a relative who vapes nicotine from a Juul?

I've been looking all day and have an idea but wanted to bounce it off the DU brains.

[jayfish]

29. Should be fine.

Secondhand Exposure to Vapors From Electronic Cigarettes

Results:
The study showed that e-cigarettes are a source of secondhand exposure to nicotine but not to combustion toxicants. The air concentrations of nicotine emitted by various brands of e-cigarettes ranged from 0.82 to 6.23 µg/m3. The average concentration of nicotine resulting from smoking tobacco cigarettes was 10 times higher than from e-cigarettes (31.60±6.91 vs. 3.32±2.49 µg/m3, respectively; p = .0081).

Conclusions:
Using an e-cigarette in indoor environments may involuntarily expose nonusers to nicotine but not to toxic tobacco-specific combustion products. More research is needed to evaluate health consequences of secondhand exposure to nicotine, especially among vulnerable populations, including children, pregnant women, and people with cardiovascular conditions.

Also, a Juul is a pretty low-volume device.

[Mariana]

48. Do you let your kid eat nightshades? They contain nicotine, too. nt.

[NightWatcher]

64. She ate a lampshade once...

Kidding. Thanks for the info. We try to avoid nightshades because they trigger inflammation due to my lupus. I still will eat a few fries and tomato sauce foods from time to time.

[DanTex]

27. Probably, but there aren't enough (any) long-term studies to be able to say how bad.

Most of the harms from smoking don't come from nicotine, they come from the other stuff in the smoke. Still, there are some known harms from nicotine, and there are potential risks associated with inhaling the aerosol, the flavorings, etc.

Another thing is that because vaping isn't nearly as rough as smoking, it's easier to vape higher doses of nicotine in a day than with smoking. Three packs a day is pretty rough, but three Juul pods in a day is pretty easy. So a lot of teenagers these days are on pretty high nicotine dosages.

[TexasBushwhacker]

78. Yeah, it's kind of like all the additives in cigarette tobacco

It's not just about the nicotine in vaping liquid. Do really know that inhaling vaporized propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin or the various flavors are safe? They're considered GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) but that doesn't mean they have been proven to be safe to inhale. I'll pass. Fortunately I never been a smoker.

[Recursion]

105. I agree with that, but "not proven safe" is a world away from "proven dangerous", don't you think?

That seems to be a much weaker argument for keeping kids from using them.

[TexasBushwhacker]

113. Absolutely, but there is an awful lot of stuff that is GRAS

Aspirin was GRAS for children until the discovered Reye Syndrome in the 1960s. I just think that since vaping is putting sensitive mucous membranes in contact with heated vapor, they should be testing ALL components of E-Juice.

[Dave Starsky]

38. I wouldn't want my child to vape.

But I would rather they vape than smoke cigarettes. I would prefer that they do neither.

[Flaleftist]

44. I do believe less harmful than cigarettes.

But I would not recommend it to anyone who is not trying to quit cigarettes.

[jayfish]

53. A Well-Reasoned Opinion -NT-

[Dennis Donovan]

59. I would recommend only two things to vape.

Weed.

...and Weed.

...and the Bernie Sanders' approved; "Smoke what I'm Smoking. Wait! What?"*

(Bernie Sanders supporter here riffing on tonight's "Trope du jour" :hi

We need to laugh now, and unite annihilate later!

[The Truth Is Here]

104. A friggin men

Love to vape weed.

[vsrazdem]

56. All I know is when I was smoking I would have 2 or 3 severe colds a year causing asthmatic

bronchitis (I know, I should not have been smoking at all), every year, where it was so severe I had to be on large doses of prednisone and use nebulizers. Since I quit smoking and started vaping, which has been about 5 years now, I have had 2 colds, normal colds like everyone else, and have never had to use prednisone. I would like to not use vaping at all, am down to 6 mg which is pretty low. I picked up a cigarette once since quitting and it was disgusting.

[UniteFightBack]

84. So true and I would get a disgusting phloemmy cough and bad nasal drip year round. GONE! NT

[Jersey Devil]

125. Same thing

I smoked and every winter I'd get bronchitis so bad I thought it was pneumonia. Started vaping about 4 years ago, stopped smoking completely and now get only an occasional regular cold with no bronchitis, coughing, wheezing and no shortness of breath. 6 mil nic for me too

[Demit]

61. Doctors acknowledge that vaping nicotine is harm reduction.

There are no long term studies on the effects of inhaling the carrier fluids—the same carrier fluids that are in asthma and COPD inhalers, btw—but as compared to the many toxins in tobacco smoke, vaping is better than smoking. Also to keep in mind: nicotine is an alkaloid, same as caffeine. It is just as inherently harmful (or not).

[OregonBlue]

62. American studies are crap. Sweden, Norway, Uk, Germany have

Done large studies over many years. Their conclusions are all the same. Vaping is MUCH less harmful to the human body.

The homes of people who vape DO NOT contain any higher levels of nicotine or propolene residue than is found in the natural environment..

Because nicotine is vaporized so quickly, there is no such thing as second hand nicotine.

It is much, much,much, less harmful than cigarettes, primarily because it is the tars and other carcinogens which cause the lung cancer, not the nicotine..

Don't spread false information. Go read the studies. They are easy to Google and they are in English.

[samnsara]

63. its the nicotine in the flavored juice

[Pisces]

68. Don't feed the trolls

[Dennis Donovan]

72. yeah, no shit...

[KY_EnviroGuy]

75. Harm is extremely rare* when e-cigs are used purely to quit cigarettes or chew....

and the devices are used properly. A voice of experience (over eight years) here.......

Just like every thing else good that comes along in human life, many people will adulterate, abuse and misuse it for profit or as an ego booster. That happened with e-cigs only a few years after they went large-scale commercial and it was sad to see.

*There are cases of allergy to almost everything, including sex and water.....

[Doodley]

76. It is sad that teens are targeted. This is what happens when corporation profit is put above

the health of people who are manipulated to think they are being cool by consuming insecticide.

[Mariana]

122. How are teens being targeted? nt.

[Doodley]

134. Candy flavors, social media clearly aimed at youngsters,, marketing images using young models

music tie-ins with musicians that appeal to teens and young adults.

[Cold War Spook]

79. I will stick with hashish and bourbon.

Warning, if you are in the VA health system, check with your lab to see if they put weed or hash in your blood lab report. My lab does not.

[UniteFightBack]

85. Until nicotine is outlawed....enough of this bullshit. Pass the vape pon the left hand side. nt

[Dennis Donovan]

88. I'll stick with the dutchie...

[DetlefK]

94. Yes, it causes a condition called "Popcorn Lung".

"Popcorn Lung" is when oil-vapors adsorb in the lung.

[LuckyCharms]

97. Not according to this link.

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/cancer-controversies/does-vaping-cause-popcorn-lung

[Mariana]

108. It must be fun to just make shit up and believe it. nt.

[Jersey Devil]

124. Fake news

There is no such thing as "popcorn lung"

[LuckyCharms]

95. I quit smoking and started vaping 6 years ago.

This is after a long-time pack a day smoking habit.

I literally never cough anymore, except during the rare times I catch a cold.

I can walk 6 miles without getting winded.

So there's that.

[pecosbob]

98. Having one blow up in your face would probably ruin your day...

[LuckyCharms]

99. That's why you don't mess with home made vaping mods.

The batteries are safe if you don't do dumb things with them. Just like the batteries in power tools.

Far safer than the number of fires started each year with lighters and matches.

[Mariana]

102. What we've learned, since vaping began to get popular

is that for many people, the smoking bans were never about the dangers of secondhand smoke. That's what we were told for years and years. Secondhand smoke is dangerous to bystanders, and that's why smoking in all kinds of places must be prohibited. Turns out that all along, it was never about that. Now, smokers and former smokers have a device they can enjoy using, one that doesn't emit any smoke at all, and therefore can't cause any secondhand smoke. And what happens? The focus shifts. We now have a bunch of people squawking about the dangers of nicotine. There are a few people (one right in this thread) who lie outright saying these devices emit smoke, trying to stick to the old story. However, most have shifted completely away from the actual reason we have the smoking bans to something entirely different.

[mr_lebowski]

107. Bu ... bu ... bu ... it's still the dreaded CHEMICALS!!11!

Which are, to review:

1) Nicotine. Yes. Okay. It's toxic, but in much, much higher concentrations than what the person who is vaping and directly ingesting it, generally all damn day long ... consumes. Obviously, otherwise, they'd be dead in short order. Also important to note is that ALL 'second-hand vape' is coming at a bystander 'pre-filtered' by the lungs of the person who took the hit. Unlike a cigarette, which sits and burns the entire time, emitting unfiltered smoke.
2) Propylene Glycol - A water-soluble substance also used in asthma inhalers, and to purify the air in hospitals, and also used in dance-club 'fog machines' for many decades. It's LD-40 is quite high, you could consume a great deal of pure PG before it killed you, and it's only 0-30% of vape juice. In the concentrations we're talking about here, esp. for a 2nd hand 'vaper', it's completely innocuous.
3) Vegetable Glycerin. A water-soluble substance so safe that you literally can give yourself an enema with this stuff. It's used in 1000's of product we both ingest directly, and put onto our skin.
4) Tiny amounts of food grade flavorings. They are 'chemicals', yes, but there's really very little of them in the nic juice.


This is compared to 1000's of chemicals in cig smoke, including formaldehyde, carbon monoxide, a number of dangerous organic hydrocarbons ... along with particulates and oils (aka tar) that lodge in the lungs.

Here's the point: you may find it 'annoying' and 'not want to be around it', but I absolutely will be SHOCKED if any evidence is ever discovered that breathing '2nd hand vape' is actually harmful to bystanders.

[drmeow]

127. Completely smoke free locations

(i.e. even outside) annoy the F**k out of me - and I'm a former smoker who hates the smell of cigarettes. Just legislating morality.

[Mariana]

128. Now we have at least one person on this thread

spreading yet another lie, that nicotine causes cancer.

[happybird]

132. No kidding.

My mom was in the ICU for a month last year (ironically, COPD from smoking + nasty chest cold and related heart attack) and I was basically living there with her. We didn't want her to be alone. It was a no smoking campus with hard core enforcement. I was SO stressed out and couldn't smoke. It sucked, badly, and contributed to my already sky-high stress and worry levels.

No car, afraid to walk the looong distance at night alone and through the flippin' woods to get off property. It was "should I risk getting mugged or raped for a smoke?" Nope.

Eventually got e-cig and hid in the bathroom every few hours. Maybe the nicotine level in it was too low? Cuz it didn't work very well to kill the cravings.

[logosoco]

106. Hard to say for sure.

After 33 years of smoking, I quit and have been vaping for 6 years now. My lungs are at an amazing capacity. Yes, I am addicted to nicotine, but it seems to be in small enough doses to not show any effects. My health problems now are joint pains and I think that is due more to years of physical jobs.

One thing that gets me with the folks who seem to be so anti-vaping....when can we get on chemical scents in general? I can't go anywhere without being hit with scents from perfume and body products. As soon as it hits my nose and lungs, everything wants to shut down. I get headaches and sometimes feel sick to my stomach. There are whole aisles in stores I can't go anywhere near. But these products NEVER seem to be questioned that folks are using them. And around kids.

It does seem like a power thing with the kids. I think it is better for them to vape than to use traditional cigs. Yes, nicotine is addictive but there are so many harmful things in this world (not just Republicans!) and while it would be great if a person did not do anything harmful, that is probably impossible (everyone is exposed to harmful things everyday, some that are not even considered harmful) to avoid all of it. And people do need to be allowed to do what they want with their own bodies if it is not affecting anyone else.

[Oneironaut]

110. Not sure, tbh. I have no problem with kids doing it either, or marketing to kids.

It’s kind of a “do at your own risk” thing. I wouldn’t do it, but I don’t care if other people do it.

[Johnny2X2X]

111. Had a friend who owned a chain of vaping stores

He had 8 or 10 stores, he passed away a few years ago now, unrelated to vaping. Dude was getting barrels of liquid nicotine and base oils shipped to his house from China and he was mixing his own stuff up in his basement for sale. Zero regulation, zero quality controls, and zero tests for purity or impurity. He had zero background in chemistry and never even graduated high school. Just mixed stuff up with flavors and sold it for a huge profit.

He was selling his basement batches at all of his stores and also supplying other chains. Did really well for himself.

This stuff needs regulation.

[Hekate]

117. Harmless unless you think lifelong addiction and cancers are a problem. It's nicotine.

[Recursion]

121. Does nicotine cause cancer? (nt)

[Mariana]

126. No, it doesn't.

It seems that some people are spreading that particular falsehood to turn folks against vaping. The truth is not on their side, so they lie.

[Hekate]

118. It's Big Tobacco and they target teenagers. Any more questions?

[Mariana]

129. Would you show us how they target teenagers, please?

Link to an ad, maybe?

[Mr. Quackers]

131. Not harmful

Just makes the user look like a douchebag.

[ForgedCrank]

135. I'm new here so I'll try not to aggravate anyone, but as an ex-smoker who

did tons of research and actually used e-cigs to stop smoking cigarettes, I find it somewhat bewildering that people attack it so viciously.
I believe it to be a true statement when I say that inhaling anything that's not air is probably no *good* for you.
But if it helps people stay off of tobacco, it's a gift to humanity. The exhaled residue is nothing more than glycol fog which is mostly just water, with minute trace amounts of leftover nicotine and flavorings. All of these things are practically harmless to bystanders other than the visual.
Nicotine in itself, although highly addictive, is no more harmful than caffeine.
If someone wasn't a smoker and I saw them picking one up, I would cry foul and make every attempt I could to get them to re-think such a foolish decision. But as promoters of better public health, we should be cheerleading for e-cigs and what they can accomplish for both smokers and those who hate being around them.
To frame it, if I had to catch my own kids doing one or the other, not that I would condone such behavior either, I'd much rather it be e-cigs than cigarettes or chewing tobacco.

[Leith]

136. Hear Hear!

I quit smoking over 5 years ago because of e-cigs. I don't get winded any more and there's no more wheeze.

Welcome to DU! There are never too many voices of reason.

[Mariana]

137. Some people really, really hate smokers - and former smokers, too.

They would prefer to see you keep on smoking and sicken and die, rather than see you partaking of a much less dangerous alternative to smoking. Don't get me wrong, they want you to quit, but you better be miserable when you do, because that's what you deserve. The idea that you can quit smoking painlessly - and that you can even enjoy doing it - drives some people insane with rage.

[LuckyCharms]

138. This is correct. and the ironic thing is that each one of my doctors have

congratulated me for using vaping to quit cigarettes. However, their nurses usually chastise and berate me like I am a child. Go figure.

[ForgedCrank]

140. Well, I didn't really want to say that, but it appears that is the case a lot of times

for some reason.

[backscatter712]

141. It's less harmful than smoking.

By 95%, as others have pointed out here.

As we all are well aware, combustion generates and releases countless nasty chemical compounds, that we call tar, composed of everything from benzene to carbon monoxide to hydrogen cyanide that are toxic and carcinogenic. And we light our bits of plant matter on fire and breathe that shit into our lungs on purpose.

Vaping doesn't bring tobacco (or weed) to combustion temperatures, which prevents such chemicals from being generated and being inhaled into your lungs.

I'm not saying vaping's harmless - nicotine by itself has some nasty effects (it's harmful to your heart), but it's a hell of an improvement over smoking, which is why we should encourage it instead of smoking (for adults, of course. Kids shouldn't smoke.)

Personally, I don't use tobacco at all. I prefer cannabis - much more fun, and far less unhealthy.

[janx]

143. Nicotine IS a vasoconstrictor. I used to believe as you do that it

isn't harmful, but I'm older now and have problems that are exacerbated by that. Still, vaping is better than smoking. I've done both and think that the hype about second-hand vape is ridiculous, especially when people vape outside.

HOWEVER, people who get rid of their nicotine addiction often become purists, and I don't think this is a bad thing. It helps them to keep away from nicotine, even if they become judgmental or obnoxious about it.

[Mariana]

144. If they were really concerned about "secondhand nicotine"

they'd be agitating to ban nicotine gum, too - since obviously, anyone with a wad of nicotine gum in their mouth is even more likely to be exhaling nicotine than someone who is vaping. In reality, it's nothing to do with that at all. Some people in previous threads about vaping have said outright that they hate smokers and want them to be miserable. That's what it's about, even if only a few are honest enough to admit it.

[loyalsister]

145. Chemicals in flavorings are harmful

Diacetyl is used for butter flavoring for microwave popcorn. When it was inhaled for long periods of time, daily many of the workers in the popcorn plant developed serious respiratory illnesses, including popcorn lung. The workers won a large class action suit over the damage.

Vaping is a different delivery, but the fact that the chemical is known to have caused damage when inhaled should indicate caution.

[Mariana]

147. This has already been addressed upthread

when a poster falsely asserted that vaping causes Popcorn Lung. There are zero cases of Popcorn Lung that have been attributed to vaping. Can you produce the slightest shred of evidence to the contrary?

[loyalsister]

148. The jury is still out

We know for a fact that when people inhaled diactyl for significant periods of time over a long term developed popcorn lung. E cigarettes use a different delivery and have not been in use for very long yet. And there is good reason to be skeptical of safety of inhaling a substance that we know has done damage over the long term in the past.
Kind of like the opposite of what people did with inhalation of burning tobacco and all of the chemicals that come with it. Unfortunately many of us were not sensible enough to give pause even when we knew it could do damage. I never denied the risk, but I overlooked it for a few years. I am very glad I stopped as I am seeing family members struggling with COPD.
Pretending there is no potential risk may help a person sleep well but it doesn't change the fact that we don't know for certain that there will not be damaging effects over time. We do know for a fact that the chemical in use has caused health problems.