Is insurance fraud a federal crime or a state crime? :

[Kingofalldems]

Link to tweet

[Wounded Bear]

1. Could be both, or either I believe...

the important thing is that if Mueller did not charge it as a Federal crime, the state involved can charge it without being a case of double jeopardy. It is beginning to look like Mueller has done this with several states, but definitely with NY and FL. He has coordinated what he is investigating and charging with an eye to leave the states open to charge at the state level.

[unblock]

3. Generally speaking, there's no double jeopardy between state and federal crimes

My understanding is that New York is an exception because it has a law saying that won't try at the state level something that has already been tried at the federal level. But most states have no such restriction.

Ianal

[euphorb]

4. A couple points of clarification --

First, this would not be within the scope of Mueller's investigation. Second, Mueller has handed things off to FEDERAL prosecutors in NY and FL, not state prosecutors. SDNY (Southern District of New York), for example, is federal, not state.

[Wounded Bear]

7. Who's to say he didn't...

if he found evidence of a crime committed that was out of his jurisdiction, he could still pass that on to the appropriate entity to pursue it. I doubt that there is a law against that. Sure, he can't investigate himself but as an officer of the court he is required to report crimes, no?

[FBaggins]

2. Likely state... but it doesn't matter

If you’re wondering that to determine whether he could pardon himself, that wouldn’t help him. There would be no trouble impeaching him (and removing) if he really did that

[watoos]

5. Trump got 17 million

From hurricane damage at Mar-el-loco when it only blew a couple tiles off the roof.

[unblock]

6. Most likely state.

Assuming mar-a-lago or some other Florida entity made a false claim.

If the entity making the claim was a new york entity, e.g., it would be a federal crime.

[Hoyt]

8. Old article and even older insurance claim -- like 2005. Insurance adjuster says he investigated

claim, and property, and apparently found it reasonable. Don't think there is much here, although would love it if there were.

[watoos]

9. What else would he say?

Trump used some of the money to build a fountain but my memory isn’t as good as it used to be.

[WillowTree]

10. Who here really thinks that any insurance company paid out $17 million without investigating?

Insurance companies aren't exactly known for approving big payouts without proof of damage that's covered by the policy.

[TexasBushwhacker]

12. But for that kind of payout

it would be worth it to pay an adjuster $1 or $2 Million.

[WillowTree]

13. OK. You apparently think you know how insurance claims work so I won't argue with you.

[Xolodno]

16. The Insurance company would no doubt have their team of adjusters on hand.

...and Public Adjusters are usually regulated on the fee they can collect. If its excessive, or paid "outside the norm"...they end up in jail. I don't like defending Dump, but in this case, this is probably legit. And given deductibles, coinsurance, etc. Dump probably had to shell out some of his own dough as well. No company is going to 100% insure a risk that valuable...particularly in Florida.

[watoos]

11. I stand by what I said.

Hurricane Wilma blew some tiles off the roof and blew sand in a pool. Trump pocketed the money. Trump took out no rebuilding permits, 2 weeks after the hurricane Jr. was married at Mar-el-Loco.
Google is your friend.

[Xolodno]

15. Actually...and I hate defending Dump...

I bet a lot of the damages were the result of the damage to the golf course. If there are significant Trees, Shrubs & Plants, lot of them probably got uprooted or damaged. And yes, there is an endorsement in Commercial Insurance that covers this. And if the course itself was damaged, that's going to be costly as well, golf course manicure can be costly.

Even if the main building was only lightly damaged and looks perfectly "fine", water intrusion, particularly salt water intrusion will damage things and require replacement of fixtures.

And here is where the shit hits the fan, Business Income Loss. If members can't use the facilities, chances are there is a clause where they get "x" amount of their membership fee's refunded. Plus while they use the golf course, they probably use the restaurant, bar, spa facilities, etc. And I bet they are at inflated prices, none the less, they show up on the Income Statement.

And nor am I surprised you don't see permits pulled in the immediate aftermath. No doubt there was a deductible or some sort of coinsurance provision where Dump would have to pay out of his pocket. After a hurricane, contractors become hard to come by and their services go up considerably, so what the Adjuster says what your losses are under normal market conditions could hit you with another whammy. So its in your best interest to wait it out a bit.

So the main focus would be to get the Golf Course back in action, obviously, there is already hired groundskeepers and given it may be a while before people can get down there and golf, you have the groundskeepers do the debris removal, repair the course, plant anew, which I might add, probably isn't affected too much by "Catastrophe Inflation". They probably have to work increased hours to do so, but they are cheaper than hiring outside.

Tarp up the roof, close off more damaged sections of the main buildings and you can run your bars, halls, etc. And slowly repair the damaged areas after the construction services sector calms down.

And of course, there wouldn't have been one Insurance Adjuster on this, but a whole team, one representing the Insurance Company and the other representing Dump. The insurance coverage payout would have to be agreed by both, and may even required the Insurance Company adjusters observe the repairs, even if it took a long time. And they would probably sign off in using the facilities in limited form as if they don't, the Insurance Company is under the gun to pay out more Business Income coverage.

[Xolodno]

14. 99% of the time, its State.

Federal Government run insurance programs, such as flood insurance, would be the case for fraud for example.

Wind Damage, is usually covered by a private companies or a state run fund/shared casualty of sorts.