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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Retail Apocalypse (major stores closing)
http://money.com/money/5637426/retail-store-closures-2019-jc-penney-sears-gap/
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defacto7
(13,485 posts)It was one of the company's first stores and had one of the highest sales in their company a few years ago. Now gone. I guess the company is struggling. The shopping center where it was looks like a ghost town.
Demovictory9
(32,423 posts)going out of business signs, major chains replaced with mom and pop stores
defacto7
(13,485 posts)The small businesses are failing right along with the chains.
Aristus
(66,294 posts)parks instead?
Wounded Bear
(58,603 posts)
Aristus
(66,294 posts)I'm losing my touch. I work with the homeless every single day...
Wounded Bear
(58,603 posts)
MineralMan
(146,262 posts)Others to senior housing.
Ohiogal
(31,919 posts)Include walking areas and exercise rooms.
technotwit
(71 posts)[link:https://www.visaliatimesdelta.com/story/news/2019/03/05/could-k-mart-become-visalias-first-city-operated-homeless-shelter/2980991002/?utm_source=Morning+Roundup&utm_campaign=db373ccc29-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_03_05_04_10&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_165ffe36b2-db373ccc29-78445437&mc_cid=db373ccc29&mc_eid=ec8c2d9613|
Visalia has no shortage of empty storefronts.
K-Mart, Best Buy, Toys R Us, Fallas: Each retailer has closed its doors or moved over the past year, leaving behind large vacancies across the city.
More than 150 people turned out to the latest 210 Connect panel on Feb. 11, where community leaders and residents gathered to discuss innovative, humane solutions to Visalia's growing homeless problem.
When an audience member suggested the city convert one of its unoccupied commercial spaces into a homeless shelter, Vice Mayor Steve Nelsen responded that he was looking at three such sites.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Demovictory9
(32,423 posts)fierywoman
(7,671 posts)it gives us an idea as to where recycling malls could go ...
bdamomma
(63,800 posts)rude, but may be tRump will use those empty buildings for his detention centers 
GoCubsGo
(32,075 posts)So, basically, a glorified strip mall. Strip malls are doing well in this hell hole. I guess converting the mall is better than tearing up new land for another strip mall, which is a favorite past time here.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)and converted it to an outdoor area like that and it totally revitalized the area. A largely-empty mall became a jumping, crowded shopping and eating destination.
The irony is that in the late 70s the same spot was a struggling outdoor shopping zone that was enclosed and roofed off to become an enormously-successful indoor mall that thrived for a couple of decades. Life is a cyclical thang.
lpbk2713
(42,740 posts)
ffr
(22,665 posts)Selective memory I suppose.
Miigwech
(3,741 posts)Me??? Yes, and I was very happy with my purchases. I have ordered from Amazon many, many times since we only have a Walmart to shop at, no Mom & Pop's in our town thanks to Walmart. I did buy a computer from a local store last year mainly because of the great service they provide. The snow is deep, the air is frigged, yet all I have to do is click and order (at a good price) and it is brought to my front door. Any questions? Big changes are bound to happen. Job losses are not good ... where will folks find new ones? They find them for less and less money per hour. Our country needs a living wage for all workers! It is sad for me when I see a young person working delivering sandwiches when that person is at the height of their earning capacity.... saw that today, as well.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Amazon plans to open dozens of grocery stores in a chain.
This is not good. Very upsetting. I do NOT want the local grocery stores put out of business, so all we have for everything is AmazonWorld.
Something has to be done. (Deja vu. I remember thinking this when a WalMart was trying to open up near where I used to live.)
Zorro
(15,724 posts)
Dorian Gray
(13,479 posts)in the Time Warner Center in NYC. It's a small book store with a small selection, and I don't know what the point is.
Blue_Adept
(6,393 posts)Dorian Gray
(13,479 posts)But they only have a limited amount of products, and they're pretty much their top online sellers. And the real estate in Time warner Center is so expensive, I can't imagine that the brick and mortar store makes enough in sales to cover it.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Not sure what else should, or could, be done.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)large national chains anyway. They’ll need to learn how to compete against Amazon, and they’ll have the advantage with all they’ve learned from competing against each other. Grocery is a brutal, hardscrabble business, and those who remain successful know what they’re doing.
The Genealogist
(4,723 posts)They are high priced, many of the stores are dirty and poorly staffed, and concentrate on a couple of stores in a richer parts of town. The out of town stores, including those neighborhood markets, are far better quality in cleanliness, freshness and selection. I still do most of my shopping at the local, but they are not doing too well. They really need to up their game.
912gdm
(959 posts)I kid... mostly. They dominate the area I used to live in. Self check, hardly any cashiers, and the rudest group of people you can find.
I moved to a rural area and have an IGA 15 miles away that I absolutely love. It's smaller and has that '80s grocery store feel, but everything is fresh, rotated, and super clean. Also no self checkout and the nicest cashiers..
The Genealogist
(4,723 posts)The local Dillons were excellent stores. I think they did have self check lines in local stores, but I don't use those. They always had good employees, fresh produce, and were clean. When they left town, there was a huge uproar. I shopped at one of them regularly, and when they were closing i wrote the staff a letter commending the great service I always got there.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)Walmart is currently and continues to be very strong in groceries. Regional grocery stores like Wegmans have an extremely loyal following and own the business in their service areas. Amazon currently has Whole Foods which attracts a certain grocery cult buyer, much like Trader Joe's.
I avoid buying anything from Amazon unless I can't find it anywhere else. Bezos has said he wants to takeover the retail world and I am not going to help him do it. Why would anyone support a MEGA-monopoly?
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)but there may be some serious pain ahead before it happens.
LuvNewcastle
(16,835 posts)Don't take the joys of poverty away from us! I'm looking forward to the time when my job is taken away by automation and I have all that time to shop online.....with no income. I'll just put up a tin shack in a patch of kudzu vines and eat salted dirt.
Joe941
(2,848 posts)dsp3000
(482 posts)Malls and big box stores became more and more uncompetitive when online shopping and amazon took over.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Brick and Mortal retailers years ago took on a sameness to their offering, it was like their stuff was made the same place and the only difference was the label. They also got greedy, selling something for $150 that cost $20 to make and deliver to their warehouses.
Xolodno
(6,384 posts)...At one time, Malls were just in large population centers...which meant, for some, it was a serious day trip to go to the Mall. And for others, even an overnight trip.
Then the shit happened.
A developer was looking for areas to build a new Mall, local communities get wind of that info and start offering;
1. No taxes.
2. Absorbing all the infrastructure costs.
3. Purchasing the land and "re-selling" it at a significant discount.
Why? Because Mall's "brought jobs".
Nevermind their Main Streets shriveled up afterwards.
And developers loved it, they had a tax free haven to stash their money....and make a bit of money off the rents. They knew in the end the Mall would fail, but the risk was all transferred to the city.
Amazon is exploiting their weakness via technology. It's why Walmart is now offering curbside delivery, they helped take down the "Mall" and even took over space in the "Mall". So, they know Amazon is a threat and dealing with it.
And with that said, "get a horse".
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)That's why they opened.
But they did kill Main Street shops.
But it is a little different when it's a mall of different shops vs one store, like a WalMart or Amazon.
Wages got killed in part because the stores had a lower margin of profit and the power to pay less (no competition). The stores bought from China because of lower cost, because that's what the consumer wanted (who doesn't want lower prices?). So the employees who got paid less could buy things at lower cost from China.
It's a vicious cycle.
Ultimately, I think it's a population problem. Too many people wanting too many things at lower cost, and really fast. We've all seen the complaints in product reviews about slow shipping (people want it NOW), complaining that her order for a birthday in 2 days didn't get delivered the next day - how dare they do that to her! (Any fool knows you don't order online if you definitely need it the next day.)
Now Amazon is rolling out same day delivery, which I think is ridiculous. They're going after the little business that's left to local stores. Like a monster gobbling up everything. I just think it's scary and very detrimental to the country.
Xolodno
(6,384 posts).."Too many people wanting too many things at lower cost,"
In the USA, its all about acquiring "stuff". Buy a boat, and use it once in a year or two. Instead of taking time off for vacation, anything after two or one week gets cashed out...to pay for that boat.
Think many here in the US have our priorities messed up.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I was watching The Real McCoys, an old sitcom. I'm from the deep south, from a long line of farmers. So the life of The Real McCoys, while exaggerated and a sitcom, was not something I was unfamiliar with.
Anyway, I was remembering that once upon a time in America, you weren't looked down on if you worked hard, made a decent living, but didn't have enough money to load up on "stuff." Poor but honest, hard working people were respected. Of course, everyone would have chosen to be rich, if possible. But that wasn't the main goal in life.
Capitalism is good, in that a person, through his own hard work and ingenuity, can better his lot in life. In America, that opportunity is given. But somewhere along the way, getting rich and collecting things became the goal, instead of a valuable life. Everything became too commercial....from Christmas (where parents scramble to spend what was unthinkable sums on gifts for their kids) to Easter to Valentine's Day.
People who don't have money and "stuff" are now looked down on as failures. Kids HAVE to have this or that, esp if another kid has it. I'm shocked at the money that parents spend on stuff for their kids. If they're spending money on that instead of putting it in their 401K, they're not doing their kids any favors, since the kids may have to look after the parents when they're old, if they don't have the money to do it themselves.
Saving money isn't emphasized. I was shocked at all the federal workers who didn't have emergency savings, but were getting paid a middle class wage. But I bet they had lots of stuff. (I'm guilty myself of buying too much stuff, although I was a saver, when I worked, as well.)
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)... the retail apocalypse though.
llmart
(15,533 posts)If it did, retail wouldn't be in this mess because people buy more useless stuff than ever before. Heck, we even have shows about hoarders as entertainment.
Maybe part of the problem is we have too many strip malls and there has to be a drugstore on every corner. God forbid if you have to drive more than a half-mile to buy more cheaply made crap from China.
Farmer-Rick
(10,140 posts)First, if workers were paid what they are worth saving that last 50 cents wouldn't be as important to them. But when you barely pay a person enough to live on, then they look to save as much as possible.
Second, when you have to take a shitty job so that you can eat and have a roof over your head what kind of fun can you have? You can't have fun at work, well most of us can't. The job is for money, not what you really wanted to do with your life, at least for most of us. What fun is left to do with the little bit of money the rich are willing to pay you? Your fun is shopping. How many times have some of you middle class folks gone on vacation and went shopping at the discount stores (that really aren't discounts) or the fancy upscale stores as FUN, as part of your vacation plans? We all know people who consider shopping recreation and brag about it.
So in a capitalist system, you are perpetually under paid; overworked at a job you hate just so you can support the ones you love. Cut us a break. Too many people wanting too many things is what capitalism is all about. What else do we have to look forward to with our restricted time and money?
Then I want to point out to you folks who are constantly harping on the too many people idea as a cause for economic and climate catastrophes. ALL major developed nations birth rates ARE DROPPING. ALL Of Them. That's why average age of the population is increasing....fewer births. The only ones that are rising are the more impoverished nations. Birth rates Don't always go up. They go down and are going down in all major developed nations. Birth rate is directly attributed to infant and child mortality rates and longevity. The more babies and children die, the more mothers have more babies. The more the grown children are killed off the more mothers have more babies. If mothers see their babies dying they have more babies; it is as simple as that. In developed nations babies are not dying off and grown children are not being killed. So, birth rate drops. The aging population is a symptom of dropping birth rates.
Xolodno
(6,384 posts)...No. That is not the problem. The problem is our values. We think "stuff" as a symbol of how developed we are, and its not true. We don't put a proportionate value on city, state, national parks, etc. Or value of not having a homeless problem, a healthy populace due to socialized health care, etc.
Using my boat example, why own a boat if you are going to use it once or maybe twice a year? It would be cheaper to rent one. But having that money pit in your driveway in front of your neighbors is a status symbol. I'll go further and say even in Economics we don't place appropriate value of NOT acquiring "stuff". Keeping our environment in good order should have a high value.
But at the same time, we reward an environments destruction or people living worse lives. Someone is going to get Nobel Prize once they figure all this out and GDP growth is no the barometer.
Farmer-Rick
(10,140 posts)You are right. I agree with everything you just posted.
I don't think shopping for status symbols at the expense of our environment is a bases for a healthy economy. Something is bound to break. I'm just afraid it will be our planet's environment along with us humans.
c-rational
(2,589 posts)over development of malls and partly why we see so many abandoned malls. Now Amazon is gobbling up all business and paying almost no tax. Scary indeed. We need a fair tax system and a basic guaranteed income.
crazycatlady
(4,492 posts)It was a place that I could go with my friends. And many other teens did the same. Sometimes I'd spend money, sometimes I woudln't. Often the only money I spent was at the food court or movie theater.
I was in a mall a few years ago and the rules of the mall said that people under 16 had to be under parental supervision. I was in charge of other people's kids long before that age. By banning teens (at 15, you want to shop with your friends, not your parents), you're cutting off the next generation of mall customers (and their parents as this is pre driving age). They shot themselves in the foot there.
Xolodno
(6,384 posts)..the Mall by where I work nearby, has a sign, "skateboarders are not allowed"...and at the same time I'm thinking, why don't they convert the empty Sears building into a skate park?
They are expecting "traditional" customers...when they are literally a dieing breed.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)The insurance for it would be very high, I'd guess, because of the possibility of injury. It's better for it to be vacant, money-wise.
It's the advent of online shopping that killed the malls. Although some still exist and are profitable. Particularly outlet malls, I hear.
MrGrieves
(315 posts)I mean how about those large jungle gyms that 3 and 5 yr olds run around on?
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Not in an area that could be otherwise used to make money. Or that is owned by a private enterprise, probably.
And yes, the insurance for playgrounds is high. So a skate park could figure in on an area that already has high liability insurance. And owned by the government.
Think about it. You have $1,000,000 to invest in a business to make money. Would you choose a large area inside a mall to have a skate park? The liability ins. alone might be $100,000 a year. How much would those kids spend to skate there? Would there be concessions? Even theaters don't make money on admission. They make money on the concession stands.
I made up those amounts...I don't really know. But ins. would be in the thousands per year. And the profit on such a place wouldn't be much, if any.
MrGrieves
(315 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Not gonna be in a mall. It's too expensive.
Pretend you have cash in your pocket to open a business. Pretend there's a big vacant cemented area in a big mall. Pretend there's a vacant roller rink in a strip mall. Pretend there's a vacant cemented area in a city or county park, or even land that could be cemented over.
Add up the costs. Add up the money you'd expect to rake in. Then do the math.
(Note: Skateboarding is deemed a hazardous rec activity. So you can't sue the govt if you break your neck. But you CAN sue a private enterprise.)
MrGrieves
(315 posts)But malls are ghost towns.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Better idea is to lease it out for flea markets, art shows, etc. Things that are not dangerous and don't damage the premises, and will be used by people who have money to spend.
MrGrieves
(315 posts)https://journalstar.com/news/local/new-skate-park-in-mall-aims-to-create-positive-environment/article_a1b19514-b15c-11df-a38d-001cc4c03286.html
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM648E_Woodward_Skatepark_Grapevine_Mills_Mall_Grapevine_Texas
https://www.ridebmx.com/news/plan-nine-skatepark-opens-in-st-louis-missouri/
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)A nonprofit. (As in...no profit. And you can't sue them.) It's the Battleground Skate House & Youth Center Inc., community youth organization. Not a for-profit business.
https://journalstar.com/news/local/new-skate-park-in-mall-aims-to-create-positive-environment/article_a1b19514-b15c-11df-a38d-001cc4c03286.html
This doesn't exist. This is a 2010 snippet talking about a proposal for a new one, to replace the one that went out of business.
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM648E_Woodward_Skatepark_Grapevine_Mills_Mall_Grapevine_Texas
It closed. Your link was from 2009. It closed in 2011, looks like.
https://www.ridebmx.com/news/plan-nine-skatepark-opens-in-st-louis-missouri/
This one closed.
MrGrieves
(315 posts)it is about getting people to the mall. That was the point in this.
Xolodno
(6,384 posts)As part of the fee, require insurance the customer has to pay. When I used to ski, I paid for the buck insurance in case the equipment got ruined should I wipe out in a bad way. Why not require it as part of the use of a skate park?
And a skate park may not be profitable in itself...but you can bet stores who cater to that will want to be right next to it. Sort of like Las Vegas in the past, make food cheap, profit off their gambling on the way to and back from the buffet.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)and litigation is just a failed kickflip away.
MrGrieves
(315 posts)Just about every suburban city has one here.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)I think it different for a business; greater liability. My wife and daughter go to a city-owned skatepark all the time, but I’m not aware of any private ones locally. Maybe it’s just a California thing.
LuvNewcastle
(16,835 posts)People used to enjoy going out to look at the things for sale, even if they didn't buy anything. After online shopping got started people realized all the things they didn't like about shopping at stores, like searching for parking spaces and waiting to pay for things. I just hate dealing with all the people. I won't go to Wal-Mart unless it's the middle of the night. Sartre said "hell is other people." Maybe online shopping is just our way of escaping hell for a little bit longer.
crazycatlady
(4,492 posts)At least when I was growing up, it was a place to be with friends away from eavesdropping adults. The mall was a place to spend hours and just be a teen without your mom asking you (when your friends are over) why the dishwasher is not loaded. It was the first taste of freedom.
When I first got my driver's license, the mall was one of the first trips I made.
When the movie "Clueless" (1995) came out, I was the same age as the characters there. Cher (Alicia Silverstone) referred to the mall as a 'place where you could find sanctuary in a world full of chaos.' The mall WAS the teen hangout for Gen X and Millennial teens.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Kids basically have the mall in their pocket now; it’s a 24/7 virtual hangout that with careful deleting and a silenced ringer is even more unsupervised than the mall of 80s was for my generation.
Not that my dorky-ass friends and I went to malls — we made do with Dungeons and Dragons in a converted garage so we wouldn’t get tormented by the Cool Kids. Now you can do that virtually as well, no danger of ass-kicking when you can curate your own online space.
crazycatlady
(4,492 posts)Most of the money I spent at the mall as a teen was either at the food court or movie theater. Clothes were more expensive then (no Forever 21) but I could see a movie for $5-8 and dollar menus still existed.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Target and Lowes are the anchors with all kinds of smaller chain retailers and restaurants spread between. Place is never not packed unless near opening or closing.
Daughters hang up there with friends from time to time but it’s not the same as the mall of my youth and even young adult life with my young girls. Used to love taking them to the mall to walk around and shop and eat. Good way to get out of the house for a while
crazycatlady
(4,492 posts)I liked how the mall is weatherproof. I could go there on a super hot, cold, or rainy day and be comfortable.
EX500rider
(10,809 posts).....what was the power bill large malls had to keep the malls cold? One of the reasons mall rents were sky high i bet.
GoCubsGo
(32,075 posts)I'm stuck using Amazon half the time, because the local stores never have what I need, and I am not about to drive 45 minutes to where I have more shopping choices. And, then hope they have what I am looking for. Not to mention that in driving that 45 minutes, I'm putting my life at risk by being on the road with the worst drivers in the country. I'll hold my nose and order on Amazon or some other online retailer, thank you very much.
And, it's getting to the point where I want to do my grocery shopping online, as well. It's the same thing. You go in there, and everything you want is out of stock. On top of that, you have to put up with aisles that are clogged by shelf stockers, or more often, just the boxes of stuff waiting to go on shelves, "personal shoppers" for their delivery services, employees who are rearranging the shelves, and people who feel the need to shop by committee. Screw that shit.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)They can't have everything in stock. It's not possible.
So if people don't live in a big city where there are big stores everywhere, and easy to get to, people shop online a lot. I do a lot of online shopping. It takes less time, it's easier to find stuff, and the cost is the same or less.
I remember the days where I would spend an entire day driving from one store to another, looking for a particular item, and maybe settling for something else, when I couldn't find the tv I wanted or the cable I needed. No more.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)that I’m part of the problem. Online shopping is so easy that it’s really difficult to motivate myself to shop “analog” now.
Combine that with a job that involves going into grocery stores all day and I increased find myself simply refusing to spend time in any retail setting I can avoid. I feel bad, but damn, shopping stinks.
pressbox69
(2,252 posts)if in this age of Trump, the empty malls are converted into massive holding cells, or worse. Can'
t have all those suspicious looking perps walking around free with bad thoughts now can we? If he doesn't get his wall. welcome to plan B.
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)
cagefreesoylentgreen
(838 posts)I don’t have the time to hit up a brick and mortar as much as I used to.
The one exception is IKEA. Not only do I get the visual and tactile experience of a brick and mortar store but IKEA has an incredibly generous return policy. Anything is returnable 365 days from the date of purchase, even if it’s partly or fully assembled. I know some folks who wait for the store to open every day so they can get huge discounts in IKEA’s used “as-is” section.
Those two things in other brick and mortars would make me patronize them more, absolutely.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)but it’s the only store I still look forward to visiting. We go in planning on it being a day-long experience, with lunch included. It’s like a theme park with an arts-and-crafts section added after you get home.
obamanut2012
(26,047 posts)With lunch.
cagefreesoylentgreen
(838 posts)Sure, people complain about IKEA furniture, and it’s not always the best, but that’s what the 365 day return policy is for, isn’t it? 
obamanut2012
(26,047 posts)That isn't Target or Aldi or Trader Joe's. Even IKEA isn't too far away, the others are within five minutes of me.