Massive study shows kids who receive MMR vaccine 7% less likely to develop autism

[deminks]

than those kids who were not vaccinated. NO LINK.

Link to tweet

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-health/another-study-finds-no-link-between-autism-measles-mumps-rubella-n979176?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

Just a five percent reduction in vaccination coverage can triple measles cases in the community, researchers note.

[Botany]

1. Science and facts means nothing to the anti vaccination people so a study of 650,000 cases ...

... doesn't mean anything to them.

[mr_lebowski]

3. It's a giant cover-up and the scientists are all in on it, you see? (nt)

[Botany]

5. Peer reviewed science is so over rated.

n/t

[mr_lebowski]

6. Well, it ain't got nothing on Jenny McCarthy's blog, you know ... (nt)

[NewJeffCT]

15. just like Global Warming/Climate Change

over 99% of the scientists on both issues are involved in a massive worldwide conspiracy.

[groundloop]

26. Yeah.... and the leading 'scientist' skeptic has a PhD in economics

That economics degree certainly makes him more qualified than the thousands of climate scientists who have been working on studying earth and her climate for decades.

[TwilightZone]

2. Yep, that's now 18 studies in 7 countries on 3 continents...

involving more than a million kids.

No link.

[groundloop]

27. Still too small of a sample size to be convincing

[TheBlackAdder]

41. The vaccines don't prevent autism, the vaccines show parents who probably take better care of kids.

[Hortensis]

4. Great. Other studies also show that parents of vaxed children

are less likely to be carried away by irresponsibly uninformed populist passions, left wing or right wing.

Predictable when you think about it, of course, but nice to have these things measured and confirmed.

[FakeNoose]

7. Do they even know what causes autism?

What if autism is the result of bad parenting? Or nutritional imbalance? I don't understand why some people believe it's caused by chemicals. Babies and small children need to be protected from devastating illnesses, and that's the only purpose of vaccinations.

[Hekate]

11. No they don't know, but it is not "bad parenting." I would go with environmental contaminents...

Environmental contaminents are so pervasive in America that amniotic fluid tests positive for hundreds of toxic substances. Like 600+. That's at all socioeconomic levels and all levels of education, whether their moms ate organic food or not.

These toxic substances range from rocket fuel that contaminates underground aquifers in So Cal to household pesticides and so much more.

SOURCE: Articles from the Los Angeles Times several years back. I subscribe.

Autism has always been around, just by other names. But the drastic surge in autism feels to me like these kids are the proverbial "canary in the coal mine." (For those who don't know, coal miners in some regions used to take a caged canary underground with them as an early warning device for odorless gasses that could blow up or simply kill them quickly. When the canary keeled over, that was the signal for the miners to get the hell out.)

But as for blaming mothers, which used to be the favorite culprit -- that also has been thoroughly disproven. I think our culture is poisoning our own babies.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

25. worth a k&r on its own.

Thanks.

[FreeState]

28. The rate of autism cases is not increasing - diagnosing is

We diagnose better is the change. Several studies show this now. If we take current diagnostic standards and apply them to past studies we get close to what we have now.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/the-big-reason-autism-rates-increased-again#1

...experts say that the increasing prevalence of ASD in the CDC’s latest report has more to do with better monitoring and diagnosis of the disorder, rather than a de facto rise in the number of children who have ASD.

“We’re getting better at identifying under-unidentified populations, so it’s not as if the numbers are rising. It’s more that everyone is going to the number that it should be,” Dr. Max Wiznitzer, a pediatric neurologist at University Hospitals Rainbow Babies and Children’s Hospital in Cleveland, Ohio, told Healthline.

[xmas74]

42. This.

I've worked in state institutions and habilitation centers. There have always been autistic persons-always. The difference is that there is a more clear and concise list of symptoms/signs and an actual spectrum. Someone who once was just socially awkward might now be recognized as on the mild end of ASD.

They have always been here. What I did notice in the state hospitals is that we would have relatives,some who initially were not raised together, living in the institution with a diagnosis of ASD, along with others.

[Act_of_Reparation]

16. Epigenetics

A combination of genetic and environmental factors.

[coti]

20. It has many causes.

Autism isn't a disease in itself, but a collection of symptoms that can be brought on by a wide number of developmental issues. But genetics plays a large role in those developmental issues that can lead to autism.

[xmas74]

43. When I worked in state hospitals

The patients with ASD all had multiple issues diagnosed and not just one thing. Many had a much later ASD diagnosis compared to their other MR/DD issues.

I've always thought we have more ASD because we are better at recognizing it, both as parents/caregivers and pediatricians/GP. I also know adults who were diagnosed in their 20s, highly intelligent but called "socially awkward" in their youth.

[hunter]

24. In my family autism is clearly genetic.

But yeah, there were always assholes ready to attribute it to "bad parenting."

Back in the dark ages of my youth some people blamed my mom for my both my weirdness and severe asthma, including doctors.

I knew other kids with asthma whose stay-at-home mom's spent huge effort making sure their homes were dustless.

Turns out maybe if I'd grown up in traditional housebarn as my ancestors did -- people upstairs, farm animals downstairs -- I might not have suffered allergies and asthma.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/newborns_exposed_to_dirt_dander_and_germs_may_have_lower_allergy_and_asthma_risk

The tendency towards autism in our family seems to confer some benefits on those lightly affected. For every dysfunctional adult there's a few talented but socially awkward engineers, artists, dairy farmers, ranchers, etc...

I grew up in Los Angeles. The smog in those days probably made my asthma much worse, and the lead from leaded gasoline couldn't have been good for anyone's nervous system.

I think a lot of health problems, including mental health problems, are aggravated by toxic chemicals in the environment, especially pesticides.

[ck4829]

44. These ALL play a role in each individual case, and no case is the same

I would say except for vaccines and refrigerator mothers, cases are influenced by a combination of these factors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_autism

The tendency for assortative mating (People choosing mates because they have similar characteristics to them) may also play a role according to Simon Baron-Cohen.

[kimbutgar]

8. It was not the vaccine but the chemical that bonds all 3 vaccines given to a baby when its brain

Is developing at a crucial time.

[TwilightZone]

9. Nope.

There is no link between vaccines and autism. Not the vaccines, not the components. None. Zero.

[kimbutgar]

13. I have a 26 year old son with autism and I saw the day after he got the mmr he was feverish and

Changed from bring an active responsive child to one who was fussy and not as active or engaged. I believe in vaccinations but I still think the thimersol caused his autism.

I would vaccinate him again but not just as closely spaced together. And not any combined vaccinations. I've been dealing with autism for 24 years of my sons life. So maybe I have some first hand experience and no child in either of mine or his fathers have autism. Look of thimersol and then get back to me.

[Act_of_Reparation]

17. Who needs medical research...

...when we have completely unqualified assumptions based on one anecdotal example?

[kimbutgar]

21. Did you even research thimersol?

[Act_of_Reparation]

23. Research what?

The part where scientific consensus rejects any and all claims linking thimerosol to developmental disorders? Or should I have researched something else?

[TwilightZone]

32. You've been duped by a disgraced doctor who faked a study to try to get rich.

Sorry, but that's reality. Wakefield is a hack and a conman. He always was.

There is no link to autism. None. 18 studies, millions of kids. Zero link.

There. Is. No. Link.

[WeekiWater]

34. I am beyond sorry about your son.

And a reaction from the vaccine could have played some role. I will not discount the time-line you offer. It clearly means something. What the vaccine didn't do was cause the autism. Autism is diagnosed by a collection of symptoms. There is always the possibility that a bad reaction to the vaccine enhanced certain symptoms or flat out generated others. Some might have already been present but virtually unrecognizable without the others.

Sorry you are being discounted. Some are too rigid in their corners and react hastily. You might fit that as well. How couldn't you considering the time-line you offer. It's understandable. But vaccines do not cause autism. Thimersol does not cause autism. That does not mean that in extremely rare cases a bad reaction to a vaccine won't present itself with some of the symptoms and even bring out others that were already there. That also doesn't mean you should preach flawed science and promote non-vaccination.

I hope this comes off as understanding.

[NickB79]

37. Thimerosal was removed from vaccines in 2001

And in the 18 yr since, there has been no decline in the incidence of autism.

[coti]

22. Post hoc ergo propter hoc

The reason parents of children with autism are often so suspicious of vaccines is because of the coincidence of when routine childhood vaccinations are given and when symptoms of autism begin to develop. They occur around the same time, and there is a natural tendency for humans, in the way that we learn, to group things together that happen in the same space of time, or one after another. That tendency can lead to illusory ideas of cause and effect.

[bhikkhu]

38. Thimerosal hasn't been used in children's vaccines starting in 1999

Which means in your case it's possible that your son's vaccine had thimerosal. But...the logic of the proposition there would have to be - if thimerosal causes autism, then we should have seen a decrease in the autism rates after it was discontinued. If there wasn't a decrease, or any indication of any difference after it was discontinued, then it was pretty obviously not a cause.

Most people are aware that autism rates have had a pretty smooth upward trajectory, no blip at all in the numbers when thimerosal was discontinued.

[kimbutgar]

39. My son was vaccinated in 1993 with the mmr

[bhikkhu]

40. Doing the math, that's about what I figured

And I do recall the fuss about thimerosal maybe being a bad thing back then, though I don't remember if it was implicated in autism at that early time. In any case, it was removed from children's vaccines not because there was any evidence against it, but because they didn't want it to be a sticking point against vaccination.

What is surprising is that 20 years after it was discontinued, people will still post it as a reason against vaccination. First, it's not in the vaccine. Second, removing it from the vaccines had zero affect on autism rates.

Not that I haven't ever been wrong about anything, or on occasion repeated something that was wrong where I could have easily found out I was wrong if I'd looked into it at all...

[ismnotwasm]

10. Vaccines is not what caused Autism in my grandson

I have eight grandkids from 4 kids and there is zero fucking chance vaccines caused autism.

[Hekate]

14. Thank you. I also don't blame vaccines for my granddaughter's SIDS, but my grieving daughter does...

There are plenty of people willing to tell her so -- and as a consequence, none of her other children will ever be vaccinated. She's become a crusader on the subject, and there is no conversation to be had regarding vaccination.

[ismnotwasm]

19. My daughter is just the opposite

She’s getting her Masters in special education because of this child, and she homeschools; the homeschooling community is chock full of the conspiracy minded idiocy that produces these people, so she kind of stays away from the on-line support groups, because it always comes up. It’s too bad, that community often needs a good dose of excellent science to counter the tendency of rightwingery

[Hekate]

12. So is the almighty Zuckerberg going to flood Facebook's mommy chat-rooms with this information?

No?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

18. My understanding is that the largest study reviewed shows zero difference

in the percentage of autism in vaccinated and non vaccinated children.

And don't tell me that autism is caused by environmental factors, either. My mildly autistic son (Asperger's) was different from the day he was born, only we didn't recognize it as he was our first child and so seemed quite normal to us. Years later, as I read up on Asperger's, it was obvious.

Classic autism, the kind where a person seems completely lost inside himself, often does not manifest during the first two years of life. Typically they will meet all the milestones, and then lose them. .Unfortunately, that happens around the time vaccines are given, and people erroneously conflate cause and effect. However, I've read a good number of reports from mothers who say no, the child was different from the beginning.

The whole "vaccines cause autism" seems to assume autism never happened before vaccines. Sort of like the claim that wearing bras causes breast cancer, as if women before the invention of bras never got breast cancer. Or that men never do.

[wryter2000]

29. Environment begins in the womb

So, something can be environmental and appear at day 1.

Not saying I know the environment caused your son's Asperger's. Just that it can't be ruled out because it appeared the moment he was born.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

30. That really does sound a lot like blaming the mother.

It feels a lot like the old thing about autism being caused by refrigerator moms.

[wryter2000]

31. I didn't mean that

Environmental problems could be polutants beyond anyone’s understanding or control. I didn’t mean things like drinking or smoking or bad diet. Parents of autistic kids are just as careful during pregnancy as anyone else.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

33. I didn't really think you did.

I am very aware that the environment starts not only pre-natally but a couple of generations back. I know studies have been done of babies who were born in 1944/45 in war-torn Europe, and I cannot recall what was concluded, but there were definite differences between them and babies born in better times, which persisted for however long the studies went on.

And yeah, there may have been something present prenatally that caused my son's autism but since I avoided the obvious things like smoking and drinking, I honestly think that he was simply born with a different brain wiring.


And I think that is probably true of most autistic people.

[wryter2000]

35. I think you're right

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

36. Yeah, we are all so different, even those of us

not on the spectrum or otherwise neurotypical.