How badly are we being ripped off on eyewear? Former industry execs tell all

[Zorro]

Charles Dahan knows from first-hand experience how badly people get ripped off when buying eyeglasses.

He was once one of the leading suppliers of frames to LensCrafters, before the company was purchased by optical behemoth Luxottica. He also built machines that improved the lens-manufacturing process.

In other words, Dahan, 70, knows the eyewear business from start to finish. And he doesn’t like what’s happened.

“There is no competition in the industry, not any more,” he told me. “Luxottica bought everyone. They set whatever prices they please.”

https://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/la-fi-lazarus-glasses-lenscrafters-luxottica-monopoly-20190305-story.html

[2naSalit]

1. There is no

direct, positive correlation between capitalism and the well being of any living thing.

[mikeysnot]

2. Unless your are the CEO

and on the board of directors...

[zaj]

6. That's ridiculous.

We took Democracy for granted until the right half the country is ready to let it die because they are angry at change. Let's not start acting like them, and take for granted capitalism until it dies.

The boring truth is that Democracy and Capitalism both have flaws that can be exploited. But they are both very powerful forces for good. The flaws need to be constantly evaluated as the world changes, and changes will forever be needed to find the right balance.

But ultimately, both are powerfully good things.

[2naSalit]

10. Not from my perspective...

I don't agree with your view.

[zaj]

14. I appreciate your tone

[PatSeg]

48. Wow

Such a civil disagreement on DU! I'm impressed.

[Whiskeytide]

24. Pure, unadulterated capitalism is fully at odds ...

... with democracy. The very tenets of each philosophy (one political and one economic) are almost mutually exclusive. Capitalism can co-exist in a democracy, but only if reasonably regulated.

The US has proven so historically. But capitalistic interests have been at war with democracy since this country was founded.

I’m not anti-capitalism. It is a powerful and successful economic engine, and it is primarily responsible for our success as a nation. But if it’s not controlled by a powerful democratic government to check its predatory instincts, it will consume all in its quest for superiority.

[zaj]

27. Yep

That's the right perspective, imo

[PatSeg]

54. Very well put

Democracy and the will of the people must be dominant and have control over capitalism. If there is a choice between the well-being of the people and that of corporate interests, the people must always prevail.

To believe that capitalism will regulate or police itself is ridiculous. The goal of capitalism is to make a profit usually by any means necessary. We can't be outraged when that is exactly what corporations and financial institutions do, especially if we exercised no limits or control over them.

We no longer live in times where most businesses and farms were owned by individuals, who had a direct relationship with their customers and were a part of the community. I don't think our founders could anticipate what we are seeing today and the role that money would play in our politics and government.

[FiveGoodMen]

58. Agree completely!

[DirtEdonE]

61. Exactly.

I'm not anti-capitalism either but no economic system is perfect and each needs to share elements of other systems otherwise we experience the results we see here in America today; huge wealth disparity, increasing poverty, failing infrastructure, sub par education, frequent economic downturns in a boom and bust cycle designed to benefit the few.

In the USA we've made democracy synonymous with capitalism then made capitalism a game of Monopoly.

[safeinOhio]

67. Adam Smith, Wealth of Nation.

The father of Capitalism said government regulation to protect us from greed is neccassary.
Then along came radical freemarket capitalism via Ayn Rand.

[DirtEdonE]

70. ayn rand - good god - this nation is as ugly as her now

Inside and out. I believe the inside affects the appearance of the outside.

[mahina]

41. agreed. And there's plenty of evidence of it failing us in light of climate change particularly

[Whiskeytide]

72. I think that perspective is a little too absolute. Capitalism ...

... jettisoned this country to unequaled wealth and prosperity. Our society as a whole benefited greatly. There are many characteristics of the concept that are beneficial. Competition for customers is good. It promotes innovation and product development. It keeps prices lower.

The problem is when it is unchecked by a functioning democracy to protect the people from the predatory inclinations pure capitalism invariably promotes. You have to prevent monopolies, fraud, and reckless management via sound regulation. And you HAVE to prevent $ from infesting the political process. We did a fair job of this for decades - but Reagan started the slide into corporate controlled government, and we are still tumbling into the abyss.

Mass media advertising, easy credit (basically the banking industy’s Realization that it could make a lot of $ on poor people) and regulatory rollbacks in the 70s all set the stage for Reagan to get the ball rolling. It will eventually take another Great Depression to turn it around. That’s one of the reasons I’m forever pissed at democratic leadership for consenting to the bailouts in 2008/09. It patched the wounds, but allowed the assailants to survive. It would have been painful for many of us. Even fatal for some. I’m not downplaying the suffering that would have occurred. But I genuinely believe we would have emerged from an economic meltdown stronger and with a healthier democracy. Instead, just look at what we have now!

[mitch96]

3. Don't get me started...

If I need new lenses you can't just buy new glass/plastic.. I like my frames, but NOBODY will just sell you the glass.. You have to buy new frames also.. I suspect that's where the money is.. My eye doc says that my prescription has not changed much so it was up to me to get new lenses.. At check out the employee directed me to the frame department to get new ones. When I told her what the doc said the high pressure tactics came out..
I told them you just lost a customer.. I voted with my wallet.. By!
m

[Shanti Mama]

4. Online?

I can't search now but I think there's an online site that is lenses only.

[mitch96]

11. My only question is getting the interpupilary line correct

I wear bifocals (geezer) and if you don't measure correctly the magnify portion will mess up your distance vision.. Yes you can do it your self but I'd rather trust a pro with this. And yes you can get the prescription from you eye care provider but I have never gotten the interpupliary distance from any of them, even if I asked.. A "got cha, us us ploy"...
m

[Codeine]

16. It's not as hard as it seems.

I measured mine myself in a mirror with a metric ruler and ordered my glasses online for the first time maybe ten years ago, and it went flawlessly.

Glasses are sufficiently inexpensive online that you can try this with a really basic set of frames and if you are happy with the results then you can order a nicer pair for regular wear and keep the cheapies for a backup.

The savings will really surprise you.

[dixiegrrrrl]

84. Totally agree with online buying.

I use Coastal.com, Mr. Dixie like Zenni Optical, same incrediblr low cost for lenses and contacts.

[jberryhill]

18. In some states they are required to give it to you

[Sedona]

55. measure pd with is

https://www.39dollarglasses.com/help/pd/pupillary-distance

[mitch96]

62. Thanks, I'll give it a go.... nt

[JCMach1]

5. It's a racket... You don't need a new prescription every 12 months....

Unless you have an eye disease....

Outside of the US most glasses are 20-80$ contact lenses 20-30 a box

[GoneOffShore]

60. I'd love to find cheap spec's here in France.

It's possible to get inexpensive frames, but progressive lenses throw the price up.

Someone on a FB group just posted that she got Zeiss progressive lenses that cost her 900€ without the frames.

[happybird]

79. Yep.

Whenever I go in, about once every 5-7 years, I get two pair of glasses and tons of boxes of contacts, as many as I can afford. In that time, my Rx changes very little.

[2naSalit]

7. Costco.

I just replaced glasses that I lost on a plane, used frames from an older pair, cost $65 to put new lenses in them. The optometrist @ Costco charges $90 for exam and Rx. Did the same thing with the ones I lost on the plane over a year ago.

[mitch96]

12. Thanks!! another reason for me to join... nt

[WheelWalker]

23. Costco let me bring in my frame and they made lenses to fit.

It took a couple of extra days, and cost maybe $50 extra for doing it, but they were willing. No problems. Since I didn't buy a frame from them, I saved that $59.

[mopinko]

46. find a small independent place.

i know of 2 people who looked hard to just replace lenses, and they both found small places that were happy to do it.

one was a friend who made her own wooden frames. (yeah, artists)

the other was my ex who wanted to be able to use the frames from his grandpa. simple wire frames.

[rusty fender]

66. Lensabl.com

Lenses start at around $77, $177 for progressives, but still cheaper than many options

[BlueSpot]

85. My last visit I got new lenses to fit my existing frames

That would seem to make "NOBODY" inaccurate. Clarkson Eyewear. I don't know if it's national, regional or what.

My prescription is complex. I'm not sure I'd trust an online source to get it right anymore than I would trust the "glasses in about an hour" place.

[janterry]

8. I only buy online

I never buy at a store. Waste of money. I have a complicated script, but I pay less than 1/3 online. They work great .

One of the scams is not to give you your PD. I've done it myself - got the right result and ordered my glasses (the next year I even confirmed it with a glass place).

[mitch96]

19. " I've done it myself - got the right result "

How do you do it???
m

[janterry]

33. I used a protractor

I put a pencil in and then measured right 'on top of' the pupil (in front of a mirror). There are other methods, but I liked this one because I knew that the protractor would be stable and I could see the distance clearly. I just then measured the distance between the two points - on a ruler and - there you have it!

[CountAllVotes]

37. You need a metric ruler

You also need a mirror. Take the metric ruler and measure the distance between the center of your pupils looking straight ahead. That is you distance for this reading.

I have 3 different RX's I need.

I buy my glasses from Zenni Optical.

Have also bought a pair from Glasses USA as well for $20. They serve the purpose I bought them for (reading at times).

I suffer from MS and have gone blind a few times. I have an ever-changing RX!

I used to have astigmatism in both eyes. It recently disappeared the last time I went for my annual check-up for optical neuritis and the blindness I have that is particularly bad in one eye.

I tend to lose things easily so I have glasses sprinkled around the house and in the car.

I've paid as little as $15 a pair w/tint. The tint is the biggest rip-off out there. Zenni charges $4.95 for a tint. Optical office was well over $100.

It is one of the biggest rip-offs of all time!

& recommend!!

[SouthernIrish]

69. Not a "scam".

I am an Optician in Tennessee and if I were to give you your p.d. without making your glasses, I could be held liable in case of an accident. Opticians have been sued and even lost their license in Tn for doing that. I would rather keep my license and income than get sued.

[janterry]

74. Oh, I didn't mean to be rude

But most won't put it on the script. It's a real thing (just look around this thread). I even watched a documentary from Canada (they explored the subject in detail and compared online glasses with those purchased at a store - and found them the same).

In any case, they had trouble getting the PD because it wasn't on their scripts, either.

Glad to hear Tennessee puts them right on there .

[MontanaMama]

9. I just got 3 pairs of prescription progressive lense glasses

at Costco for less than one pair costs at the opticians. I probably still overpaid.

[NurseJackie]

13. Costco for me as well. Rx glasses and matching Rx sunglasses.

I don't mind the wait... it was only a week. I don't need "one hour" service at the mall. And compared to mall prices, I could get 3 or 4 pairs of glasses.

[DURHAM D]

34. Costco for me too.

I took a friend with me who was not a Costco member.

She wears transitions and progressives. She bought two pair and bought a Costco membership for less than what her eye doc charges for one pair.

[Squinch]

36. I used to buy at Costco, but switched to EyeBuy Direct. Costco is decent, but EyeBuy is

cheaper and I thought it had a better selection. Great customer service, and they make it very easy.

[CountAllVotes]

39. COSTCO

I used to buy from them.

I have vision insurance that will pay for a pair every other year.

I went there a couple of weeks ago and COSTCO optical would no longer take my insurance so I would have had to pay upfront from them.

They wanted over $100 for a crappy looking pair of glasses.

They told me I could not get the RX for reading glasses filled online as it was not possible so I had to use them to get them (LIE!).

I decided to skip it and found a deal online for a pair from Glasses USA. I paid $20 for my new READING GLASSES.

Such a load of B.S. from COSTCO. Online optical sales are ruining their business it seems.

Honesty could have helped IMO!

[Major Nikon]

63. I pay about $100 per pair at Zenni

This gets me progressive lenses with most of the available option including 1.57 Photochromic (Transition) lenses and the best coatings. I know people who pay over $300 and get less.

There's a bit of a challenge to ordering glasses online. You have to know your PD and what frames fit you.

[TreasonousBastard]

15. It's not so easy to just buy lenses-- they are normally custom fitted to the frame. BUT...

I get my glasses from zennioptical.com, where the cheapest frames go for 6 bucks, including lenses. Then it goes up to around 50 bucks for the fancy ones. There are many options to spike the price, but nothing really essential, or much money. Really high end photochromatics are up there, but not as much as the local guys.

Some of the cheapest frames are crap, but not all of them. I tend to get the 10 dollar frames. They look good and last forever.

[Codeine]

17. I've used them and eyebuydirect.com.

Every pair has been perfect. Granted I spent some time carefully measuring my existing frames to get the correct size, but it was worth the effort.

[vsrazdem]

28. I get mine here too. There are several on line, but this company has a policy that

for every pair you buy they send another pair to whatever country you designate. That is why I usually go with them. On line is much cheaper. My daughter got her single vision prescription sunglasses, lenses and frames for $15. That's a pretty good deal.

[MontanaMama]

38. I've tried the online vendors but

their prices for progressive bifocals aren’t any less expensive than Costco. I agree that for simple prescriptions they are cheaper, however.

[vsrazdem]

47. I agree. Progressives and even bifocals are not that cheap. I work on a computer all day, and

they have an intermediate type of lenses specifically for this, so that is what I order online, and usually get just distance sunglasses from them also. Very reasonable.

[mitch96]

21. "they are normally custom fitted "

I went all out and got a pair of Ray Ban frames. The next year the optrician said they can't fit just lenses to the popular frame... What a rip...
m

[samplegirl]

20. What a rip

These people are all so greedy it’s ridiculous!

[stopbush]

22. $39 Glasses and other online vendors sell product with lens

that are just as good as anywhere else. The frames aren’t designer frames, but who cares?

[Sedona]

53. I've been buying from 39dollarglasses.com for over a decade

Last edited Wed Mar 6, 2019, 09:12 PM - Edit history (1)

and just yesterday ordered to replace a broken (stepped upon) pair ... never been disappointed.

Second pair is always 50% off on same order so I always have an rx pair of shades to go with.

[democratisphere]

26. Anything, even remotely, having to do with the care and health

of humans has gone into price gouging mode by the distributors and manufacturers. Wall Street mergers and acquisitions have aided and abetted this monopolistic raping of consumers. Meanwhile the Government does absolutely nothing to stop the financial carnage.

[genxlib]

29. Not mentioned so far

Is the impact of "Designer" wear frames. I see nothing of value added by any of these people other than a status symbol. Yet they drive up the cost ridiculously.

[wishstar]

42. The industry knows Americans are suckers for "Designer" labels that have no inherent value

I have friends who drive me nuts complaining about their difficult finances but are more than willing to pay hundreds more for "Maui Jim" and "Coach" or whatever fad is in vogue.

[Initech]

30. I really wonder how much cost is affected by marketing and CEO salaries?

I mean someone has to pay for those ads we are bombarded with 24 hours a day.

[Mosby]

31. this has been going on for a long time, but its gotten worse.

In 1985 I worked for a drug store that was owned by kroger, it had an eyecare center where we could get glasses and contacts at cost. The most expensive contacts cost $12.50 and retailed at around $150.00. Frames and lenses were marked up even more.

I take care of my glasses so they last, so I splurge a little but my last pair almost hit a grand before insurance. The frames were made in Japan and I got the Crizal sapphire 360 coatings on hi-index plastic lenses.

[dlk]

32. The Markup on Eyewear Frames is Around 400% or More

I had a friend who worked for an eye doctor who shared this information.

[global1]

35. Is There A Market In Used Frames....

and custom lens houses that will fit the glass to the frame?

Seems to me that this could be an interesting business opportunity.

[FakeNoose]

59. The Goodwill stores usually have 2nd hand eyeglasses

I've seen used eyeglasses at our Goodwill stores here in the Pittsburgh area. Of course, the lenses would be no help to someone who buys them, but you're getting the frame for only a few dollars. Then you'd need to find someone to make new lenses for you to fit the frame.

As everybody else stated here, the optical stores at the mall have no interest in doing that because they want to sell all-new glasses every time. But there are other providers who aren't so greedy. I'm sure the greedy mall stores are driven by the insurance companies who are footing the bill for the all-new glasses.

[CousinIT]

40. Screw them. Get Zennies.

https://www.zennioptical.com/

[flotsam]

65. Yep

Only need single vision lenses but I ordered 3 sets- 1 set clear and 2 with different tints. Nice wire rim aviator model with spring temples. Made in China and arrived in just over a week-so took very little if any extra time. Total cost was $53! Zenni's for sure.

[mahina]

43. Thanks. SAving.

I

[The Truth Is Here]

44. I buy my glasses/lenses from Costco.

Cost: $105 = Elsewhere, over $700.

Transition glasses with special polarized lenses due to extreme nearsightedness (and not wearing Coke bottle-type glasses)

[EveHammond13]

45. well, at least now they do have some completion from online-only vendors

glasses dot com and things like that

[Heartstrings]

49. Liability....

If frames from a different "vendor" are brought in for new lenses and that frame cracks or outright breaks...oops! Could be on purpose? Or a simple accident....

Pd can be measured with a metric ruler, I used to measure for it way back when a ruler was the only tool we had. The machines nowadays are much more accurate, but can make all the difference in correct lens accuracy.

Yea, it's a consumer rip off but also a buyer beware situation.

[area51]

50. Sounds like our current medical system

Big pharma, hospital prices, insurance prices, no price controls and prices spiraling out of control.

[TheBlackAdder]

51. I used to work for a major high-end retailer. Those $150-$200 sunglasses, unit cost less than $5.50

[fierywoman]

52. So to use online glasses sources, where do you guys go for the prescription? Costco?

(Thanks in advance!)

[Codeine]

73. I've been using the same rx forever

(eight+ years?) without an issue. My suspicion is that most of us experience very gradual eye change and we really don’t need new prescriptions all that often. Use whatever one you’re using now if you’re happy with the correction you’re experiencing.

Also, I think most vision insurance provides for regular eye exams for the cost of an office visit.

[Dem2theMax]

56. Kicking to keep this for future reference.

Excellent advice everyone!

[JuJuYoshida]

57. I dunno, mine are all free with my insurance. I get a new pair every year.

[csziggy]

77. Same here - but I cannot find frames I like

The optician clerks are always telling me what the new fashion is and trying to up-sell me. Here I am, an overweight 60+ woman with no makeup wearing jeans and a tee shirt - what do I care about fashion?

I know which types of frames I am comfortable in and that work for how I use them, but they are almost impossible to find at the optician I have been using for years. I'm getting a new pair this summer and if they don't have the kinds of frames I want, I may order online or from Costco!

[yonder]

64. I have two pair of robust, well-made Shuron (long-time, US owned and manufactured?) frames

bought from a local independent optician who were more than happy to order in just the frames. My local optometrist then fitted my prescription to these frames rather than purchasing their frames. No problem, no squawking, I guess since they contract out that fitment anyway. Though my prescription has been fairly stable, if a change is necessary I just rotate the backup pair with the current pair.

Funny thing is, I've been wearing eyeglasses for 54 years and these frames are the same frame style as my very first pair (Think Malcom X). What goes around comes around I suppose. I couldn't be happier and don't have that vague, taking it in the shorts feeling you can get when looking at flimsy, over-priced, "designer" frames.

[Runningdawg]

68. Since I used to be a manager of an optical lab I will add my 2 cents.

The cost of a frame does not equal quality. I have had $500 frames snap while inserting lenses and a $25 plastic frames that held up to kids that really tested them. Many labs won't reuse frames because customer A wants lenses in his great grandfather's 14K gold frames and if anything were to happen to them we would be liable. Customer B wants lenses in a good quality plastic frame she's had for several years. The company I worked for decided we can't discriminate between the 2 patients, so they refuse all. If you have a pair of frames you really like, it might be worth the time to search for a company that will use them but for most people, new frames are more economical and convenient. If you are tough on frames spend extra for titanium or plastic safety frames (no they aren't ugly anymore).

Plastic lenses, the cheapest, are fine for most people and prescriptions. If your Rx is thick, you will benefit from paying extra for polycarbs. Personally, I think coatings are a waste of money. They might try and sell you plastic lenses with a scratch proof coating. NOTHING is scratch proof. The coating will help a little. If you are concerned about scratches, step up to the polycarbs.
Tints are for fashion, they look good but won't protect your eyes. When it comes to sunglasses, make sure they are polarized. If they are going to be used PRIMARILY for winter and water sports, you might benefit from a flash mirror coating. Transitions are great, they have their place but they will not replaced polarized lenses. Here is something hard for the general public to understand - not all Rxs will fit into all frames. If a sales person tells you that, they aren't just trying to up their commission, it's rare but it's also true.

Frames are not one size fits all and they will work best when adjusted by a professional. Even if you buy glasses online, spend the 5$ (some places it's free) and have them properly fit to your face. If you wear a bifocal, your chances online are 50/50 of getting the right fit. This is the one set of customers I would advise to buy in store.
A pet peeve of every clerk in a shop and every employee in a lab...WASH YOUR GLASSES. Plain old shampoo will do just fine. We don't want to touch a frame that has a months worth of hair products built up on the ear pieces or a years worth of green mold built up on the nose pads from your sweat. It's nasty.

[Delphinus]

83. Thank you

for sharing some really good information.

[jdu]

71. If only

That’s only the tip of iceberg. Industry Veteran

[blogslut]

75. Here's a video

[Doremus]

76. Go to Costco and get your prescription then buy the glasses from Zenni.com. Save hundreds. nt

[handmade34]

78. I buy at Zenni

I wear progressives and I end up paying under $100/pair and my last pair was $39... I do have my eye exams at an optometrist's office (my insurance covers it) and get all my measurements there

in the past I had been duped into $500 eyeglasses and it was with trepidation that I ordered online... my son was the one who turned me onto Zenni

[CousinIT]

82. I also have 5 pair of various types of Zennis...

...never had an issue w/ them at all. Work friend turned me on to Zennis and I'll be damned if I'll EVER pay for the damn designer frames again. Screw that.

[snacker]

80. Lots of good information here

Thank you, everyone.