HOW INFLUENTIAL IS AIPAC? LESS THAN BEER SELLERS, PUBLIC ACCOUNTANTS, AND TOYOTA

[Mosby]

Congresswoman Ilhan Omar’s controversial comments, repeatedly suggesting that the relationship between the United States and Israel is fueled by vast sums of lobbying money, have been condemned by several of her fellow Democrats. Still, her allegations linger , with The New York Times publishing a story seriously examining Omar’s premise and wondering “Has Aipac—founded more than 50 years ago to ‘strengthen, protect and promote the U.S.-Israel relationship’—become too powerful?” In the online edition of the article, the question was positioned directly below an image of a pro-Israel activist in tefillin.

-snip-

For the period between 1998 and 2018, AIPAC didn’t make a dent in the Center for Responsive Politics’ list of the top-spending lobbying groups. The US Chamber of Commerce spent $1.5 billion during that span, with the National Association of Realtors coming in a distant second, at $534 million. In 2018, top spenders included Google parent company Alphabet, which spent $21.7 million in Washington, and Facebook, which shelled out over $12 million to lobbyists that year. The third-largest spender of 2018 was the Open Society Policy Center, a project of the notably Israel-critical billionaire George Soros, which ran up a $31.5 million tab in its attempts to influence the federal government. That nearly doubled the organization’s $16 million in spending in 2017, another year that AIPAC failed to crack the top 50, unlike such notorious civic menaces as American Amusements and AARP.

In 2018, total pro-Israel lobbying spending was around $5 million, of which AIPAC accounted for $3.5 million. In contrast, Native American casinos spent around $22 million that year. By Tablet’s count, AIPAC was the 147th highest-ranked entity in terms of lobbying spending in 2018. Their expenditures were about the same as International Paper, a company which is seldom tweet-stormed or even written about. The American Association of Airport Executives and Association of American Railroads outspent AIPAC by nearly a million dollars each—sensible, given the rivalry between the respective modes of transportation whose interests they represent. It’s $2 million behind both American Airlines and the Recording Industry Association of America, entities whose malign influence has gone regrettably underexamined over the years.

https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/281477/how-influential-is-aipac

[Recursion]

1. And now we introduce you to the concept of bundling

Like the NRA, AIPAC doesn't itself spend a lot of money. But it knows people who do, and will call them for you.

[Mosby]

2. that's an interesting reply.

You did read the excerpt?

Major lobbying groups outspend AIPAC by ridiculous amounts.

[Recursion]

5. And the NRA spent less than AIPAC

Is it even less influential?

[leftynyc]

7. WTF are you talking about?

The NRA spent half a billion dollars in 2016?

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nra-2016-spending_us_5a0dd3e6e4b0b17e5e14e636

[Recursion]

9. $862,000 in contributions from the NRA last cycle

$5m total lobbying expenses

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=d000000082

[leftynyc]

11. And you don't count the contributions

they made to candidates? In my opinion, that's dishonest.

[Recursion]

16. I said, $862K. Very small by lobbying standards.

They don't throw a lot of money around because they don't need to.

[leftynyc]

20. I have no idea where you're getting your numbers

From the Huffpost article concerning 2016

Last year, the NRA, which is registered as a nonprofit, spent nearly $140 million on legislative programs and public affairs, an increase of about $75 million overall from 2015.

And you want to pretend it was less than a million?

Here's some more:

This $140 million figure includes a $30 million investment in Donald Trump’s presidential campaign as well as at least $20 million more to help GOP Senate candidates

That's $30 million TO DONNIE ALONE. While AIPAC spent a little over $5 million TOTAL.

[Recursion]

27. Ah, I see your confusion. There are two categories of spending opensecrets tracks

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=d000000082

One is direct campaign contributions made by the lobby (or, in the NRA's case, its affiliated PAC, the NRA-ILA). That was $862K last cycle.

The other is lobbying expenses to pay for the schmoozing and the trips to wherever (and, while we're at it, expensive fundraisers "hosted by" the NRA, which count as lobbying expenses not contributions). That was $5 million.

[Blue_true]

39. Are you counting the contributions that AIPAC makes to candidates.

Recursion used the same standard the OP was trying to slip past us. Same standard, yet you have issues with that and pull in other expenditures. The point being made was on lobbying expenditures, the NRA does not spend much in that area, but it distorts our national agenda, just like AIPAC has people in Congress ignoring Netanyahu's efforts to completely destroy any chance at peaceful agreement between Israel and the various Palestinian groups.

[leftynyc]

48. There is simply no comparison

Between what the NRA spends vs AIPAC. They gave $30 million to candidates ON TOP of their lobbying efforts.

[Blue_true]

53. I respect your insight and often read your posts.

But I have to not agree. The NRA is a single group. It's lobbying expenditures are about the same as AIPAC. Contributions to candidates would dramatically raise that as you point out, but AIPAC Affliated bundlers likely swamp the NRA on campaign donations.

Honestly I am still steaming about AIPAC inviting Netanyahu to speak before it before he insulted President Obama by speaking before some of Congress, in OUR CAPITAL (I use the same tone that Michael Corleone used when talking to a Capo about his bedroom being machined gun, with the same desire to see the Blue and White rip Netanyahu's throat out in the upcoming Israeli election).

[ExciteBike66]

3. This is an odd conflation of direct spending with "influence" nt

[Mosby]

4. Spending is an obvious way to measure influence.

How do you do it?

Do you have any experience/knowledge in social science?

If you want to measure political influence, then what's your DVs?

[ExciteBike66]

6. Why not try results?

Our country is very friendly with Israel, so AIPAC might be said the be influential in that regard.

Personally, I'm not unfriendly to Israel, but I do think we should be more critical about their government's actions.

[Mosby]

12. what did the chamber spend 1.5 billion on if not infuence, favorable legislation?

You're simple parsing words.

ALL lobbying groups are trying to obtain infuence via spending, that's why it's a good measure to compare.

[LanternWaste]

18. Wouldn't a more accurate example of 'parsing words' be ignoring other forms of influence

Wouldn't a more accurate example of 'parsing words' be ignoring other forms of direct influence (e.g. , fund-raising) in favor of the only which which supports your narrative?

No... not really accurate now that I think about it. 'Disingenuous' would be more relevant.

[Recursion]

10. Well, you might look at fundraising at events hosted by AIPAC

And fundraising through connections made via AIPAC. Again, it's a lot like the NRA: you don't have to spend your own money to have a lot of influence. Also, in both the NRA's and AIPAC's, case, they stand ready to unleash an army of furious constituents on you.

[Blue_true]

40. Very good point.

But I think Jewish groups are a lot more divided on opinion than the NRA. There are Jewish groups, some very religious, which are defending Rep. Omar. I would not put Americans of Jewish heritage into the same bucket with virulent gunhumpers.

[Recursion]

47. I mean, there are Israeli lobbies besides AIPAC

J Street, for instance. Funny how nobody ever accuses AIPAC of anti-semitism when they complain about J Street.

[Blue_true]

54. Isn't J Street a liberal leaning group?

If so, you have your answer. I just don't get the defense of AIPAC here by some good people. I am still steaming that AIPAC didn't recind it's invitation to Netanyahu when it was announced that he would speak before OUR CONGRESS in open defiance of President Obama.

[Recursion]

55. It is!

And, yes, you're exactly right: it's not a mystery what the difference there is.

[DavidDvorkin]

13. Facts don't matter on DU

As the replies to the OP show.

[LanternWaste]

17. I also say the same thing when people disagree with me.

[grossproffit]

50. It's become open season. I'm sickened.

[Mr. Smith]

14. Do beer sellers, accountants, and Toyota attempt to influence US policy toward Israel?

If not, this is a case of apples and oranges.

[zipplewrath]

21. I was thinking something similar

There are very few lobby organizations that focus basically on the US middle eastern foreign policy. You can expand the group a bit if you include those that might be concerned with economic policy associated with trade.

[Hortensis]

15. America's biggest zionist support groups are ALL Christian, mainly

conservative, and militantly aggressive. The more conservative and/or religious the group, the more committed to maintaining a Jewish state in the holy lands. The return of Jews to the promised land is foretold in the New Testament of the Bible as a precursor to Jesus's Second Coming and God's Kingdom.

In this era, the Christian right is a huge power in the Republican Party and out of it, and their people have been appointed and elected to hundreds of positions in the federal government alone.

I don't know how AIPAC, which also promotes shamelessly conservative policies, stacks up to just the Southern Baptist Convention, for instance, but they're not even in the same league of influence. Notably, though, the big Christian/Republican blocs' commitment to support for Israel isn't evaluated in terms of money and very, very rarely discussed. (Must be somewhere.)

However, for comparison, donations from conservative zionist Jews Sheldon and Miriam Adelson have been intensively covered, though (they're Jewish and their intentions declared), but where these two alone put their money to work for militant, conservative zionism is very indicative. Hint: Not small-potatoes AIPAC.

In 2018, these pro-Israel groups (including AIPAC) spent about $5 million on direct lobbying efforts beyond campaign contributions; pro-Saudi groups, for a rough contrast, spent $19 million from the beginning of 2017 until October 2018. ...

AIPAC’s (ENTIRE) lobbying and campaign contributions have been much less than the huge influx of cash into US politics from mega-donors Sheldon Adelson and his wife, Miriam... (ALONE. Again, other Republicans' and church groups' contributions not even theorized about.)

They were the largest donors in the 2018 midterm elections with $123 million, all of that to Republican political action committees that then funneled millions to incumbents in tough races. Adelson-controlled entities gave $55 million to the Congressional Leadership Fund, for example, which spent $126 million running ads against Democrats such as Wisconsin’s Randy”IronStache” Bryche.

https://qz.com/1547435/the-numbers-behind-ilhan-omars-aipac-tweet/

As I said on another thread, Israel could shoot Americans down in the streets of Tel Aviv and, like Trump, "get away with" it. Nothing would cause our Christian/Republican powers to withdraw support from Israel, certainly not the anti-Muslim activities of the Israeli conservatives that our conservatives' money and influence help keep in power.

[maxsolomon]

24. Israeli troops did run over an American with a bulldozer, IIRC.

What came of that?

[Hortensis]

31. I'd forgotten loong ago. Nothing. But

she'd entered a closed military zone to protest and placed herself in front of it, weakening her parents' case for justice in civil court. She was 23, so young.

[atreides1]

32. Rachel Corrie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie

[Blue_true]

41. Nothing. The soldier ran over her knowing that he would walk Scot free and our politicians

would cover his ass. He could have asked fellow soldiers on the ground to handcuff the woman, but he instead chose to muder her in an inhumane manner.

[shanny]

19. Does money donated equal influence?

[Mosby]

22. I don't know, why don't you ask a lobbyist?

Because if it doesn't, they sure are spending a lot of money on nothing.

[shanny]

23. I'm sure those whose living depends on it would never do that.

[Mosby]

25. Progressive Democrats have a solution for America's distrust of politicians: Stop accepting corporat

Distrust of our political system has reached historic levels such that voters of all stripes now instinctively assume that politicians are corrupted by the political contributions they receive. A 2018 Pew Research Center report suggests that 73 percent of Americans believe that donating money to politicians provides donors with disproportionate influence on elected officials.

So it's not surprising that the same report found that 77 percent of respondents believe that the amount of money that individuals and organizations can contribute to candidates should be limited. (Donors themselves are more likely to believe that their elected officials will help them with their problems.) A 2017 Ipsos poll for the Center for Public Integrity similarly found that fully 57 percent of respondents supported limits on the amount of money that Super PACs could raise and spend.


https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/progressive-democrats-have-solution-america-s-distrust-politicians-stop-accepting-ncna925806

[shanny]

28. Why yes, they do. And those I support do exactly that.

[Blue_true]

43. Like lobbyists are going to admit their jobs accomplish nothing.

Ha!

Gotta go, their is a cow shitting gold bricks that is walking down my neighborhood street.

[RandySF]

26. Ask Sen. Paul Simon who played a key role in his 1984 election

Last edited Fri Mar 8, 2019, 09:53 AM - Edit history (1)

[Blue_true]

44. 1984? nt

[grossproffit]

49. Ron Paul? The racist Jew hater?

[Devil Child]

29. Highly influential if you consider the 127 billion lifetime aid delivered to Israel

Often with no-strings attached. Feel free to diminish AIPAC influence on US politics but the numbers don't suggest it. Here is FY2018's handout to Israel and Netenyahu.

P.L. 115-141, the FY2018 Consolidated Appropriations Act, provides the following for Israel:
 $3.1 billion in Foreign Military Financing, of which $815.3 million is for off-shore procurement;
 $705.8 million for joint U.S.-Israeli missile defense projects, including $92 million for Iron Dome, $221.5 million for David's Sling, $310 million for Arrow 3, and $82.3 million for Arrow 2;
 $47.5 million for the U.S.-Israeli anti-tunnel cooperation program;
 $7.5 million in Migration and Refugee Assistance;
 $4 million for the establishment of a U.S.-Israel Center of Excellence in energy and water technologies;
 $2 million for the Israel-U.S. Binational Research & Development Foundation (BIRD) Energy program; and
 The reauthorization of War Reserves Stock Allies-Israel (WRSA-I) program through fiscal year 2019.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

[Mosby]

33. the US funds the Palestinians as well, about 1.5 billion per year.

We also have given more than 71 billion dollars to Egypt. No strings attached, they must have a lot of influence with American politicians or something.

Funny how Omar has no opinion about US payments to Egypt and the Palestinians, it's just non-profits lobbying on behalf of Israel that seems to bother her.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-clingan-egypt-commentary/commentary-the-u-s-is-right-to-restore-aid-to-egypt-idUSKBN1KK1YE

[Devil Child]

36. You can always tweet Rep. Omar on that

My stance is cessation or extreme review of all foreign aid(specifically military aid), especially to the Mid-East. Undue influence by all foreign powers (Saudi, Israel, Russia, etc...) through lobbying or meddling needs to end.

[Blue_true]

45. You keep tossing out straw men.

The support for the Palestinian Government is done to try to induce them to make peace. You can argue over the effectiveness of that policy, but please do mischaracterize it. Egypt has/had the largest military in the Arab world, the money to it again keeps it peaceful with Israel instead of it joining with radicals that are trying to destroy Israel and kill all the Jewish people in that country. A similar dynamic applies to Jordan.

[Mosby]

46. I didn't make a strawman argument, I was adding context.

It's important to understand the USs involvement in the region, especially with regard to it's financial commitments. I was simply adding some context by putting the aid to Israel in perspective.

A lot of the military aid to Israel is for defensive systems like iron dome, davids sling and the arrow systems. They needed to develop those different range missle intercept systems to stop very real threats from Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria and Iran.

[JCMach1]

30. Incorrect, they have conflated criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism

And turned it into a third rail.

CPAs don't have that

[RandiFan1290]

34. whataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhatabout...nt

[procon]

35. This article is deceptively misleading.

AIPAC doesn’t contribute any money directly to candidates. That doesn't mean that they aren't hugely influential as a significant player in terms of lobbying for pro-Israel groups and individuals who do make lavish contributions to politicians.

Prominent AIPAC members are bundlers, raising and donating money to fund PACs. Sheldon Adelson gave $123 million to the GOP to favor Israel policies and that earned him an award from Trump. AIPAC coordinates the pro-israel lobbying groups who in turn bribe politicians (yeah, we gots lots of Dems riding this gravy train) for pro-israel policies, and they give considerable amounts of money to congressional campaigns and other outside groups.

[Mosby]

37. The article addresses the differences in spending and organization of AIPAC vs. PACS

...AIPAC is a public affairs committee and not a political action committee; as a result, the group itself donates nothing to candidates or campaigns. By far the largest pro-Israel donor to political candidates last election cycle was JStreetAC, which gave entirely to Democrats.

AIPAC has a somewhat unique model that a simple dollar comparison might miss. AIPAC-linked activists often begin donating to future members of Congress early in their political careers, thus encouraging other pro-Israel donors to fund and otherwise support candidates with long-term promise. Pro-Israel activists are a political force, but the reasons apparently go beyond sheer spending power or the influence of AIPAC-linked networks. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, pro-Israel donors were’ the 34th largest-giving interest group to members of Congress in 2018, slightly behind the nonprofit sector and slightly ahead of building-trades unions, neither of which are generally thought of as the invisible hand guiding American policy.

Even a large and impactful donor network is fairly useless without a Washington operation that can translate its priorities into actual legislation. The way AIPAC is talked about, you’d think they’d be a lobbying juggernaut, surely one of the largest in the nation’s capital.

Even adjusting for donor contributions via bundlers, AIPAC is 34th in influence for the year 2018.

[procon]

38. Why are we quibbling over a dollar amount of bribes paid to corrupt politicians?

It's just wrong on so many levels. Here we are discussing Israel because we allow politicians to take bribe money from a foreign state to curry favor and buy influence that will benefits another country, often in direct contradiction to US interests.

It's just wrong on so many levels. The larger issue here is that no sovereign governments should be tampering with our foreign or domestic policies. With Trump's happytime affiliation with the brutal, despotic leaders of Russia, Saudi Arabia, No. Korea, and the Philippines, how many other countries are gleefully following AIPAC's business model to bribe US politicians into steering favorable legislation into their pockets?

It's bad enough the we turn a blind eye to all the US special interest groups lobbying politicians through a system that allows legal bribery to corrupt our government. That's compounded beyond belief when foreign actors are mucking up the system as well.

It must stop. Get the money out of politics.

[GulfCoast66]

42. Both AIPAC and the NRA give money. In various amounts.

But without votes neither would matter.

I don’t support either.

But as much as I detest the current government in Israel, and that is a lot, I detest the forces facing them even more.

I would love to see our government put some pressure on them to change their policies. And not just settlements.

But not leaving the in a situation where there existence is threatened. And the forces against them threaten their existence.

It a shitty situation that people smarter than me struggle over.

[allgood33]

51. We see and understand what you are doing. nt

[Mosby]

52. Who is "we"? Are you threatening me? What is it that you think you "understand"?

Last edited Mon Mar 25, 2019, 10:47 PM - Edit history (1)

What TF is your problem? Are you part of a group?

Leave me alone.

We see and understand what you are doing. nt