Socialists pls explain how your society/economic system will work

[brush]

We always get the criticism of capitlism but never how a socialistic goverment will handle productio of goods and services, local, state and national governing bodies, schools, lwa enforcement etc

How would it be different than the social democratic systems in western Europe, and if it is not different why not just adapted the regulated and taxed system of Europe and apply it here?

The socialistic systems that have existed certainly haven't been pretty so please explain what you intend.

[cilla4progress]

1. Essentially, in my socialist economy:

Food, education, housing, and health care are provided by the social/economic safety net. Everything else is free market.

Progressive income tax rates such as under Eisenhower.

Investment transactions are taxed at something like $.000001 (IIRC Britain has such a surtax?)

[brush]

2. Sounds like the social democracies in Europe so why call...

socialism?

[uponit7771]

4. It's total socialism it's hybrid which has proven to work best,

[procon]

8. It's semantics.

An similar argument could be made over definitions of what is a democracy. Those who oppose social style governments (even though the US is riddled with popular examples) will automatically latch onto the Carl Marx or Venezuelan model. The rest of us think of Scandinavian countries, Canada or other European nations.

What answer will affirm your preconceived choice?

[brush]

10. I would like the day-to-day workings of socialism...

laid out by those who constantly claim to be socialists, AOC and Sanders always have much to say about it but the actual socialistic systems that have existed have not been anything to write home about.

How does it work, who and how does the work get done, how does housing happen, schhooling, law enforcement, grocery storys, is there money or are skills traded?

[procon]

15. Since we are already headed in that direction,

perhaps you might posit the more relevant question of what kind of a system of blended socialism would best fit our American needs? Much like other countries devised their own schemes that works for them, we are no less clever or inventive, and no one is suggesting that there is some sort of a one size fits all or simplistic black and white, off the shelf model to be had. Any proposals for increasing socialized programs will be sketchy at first, much like Medicare in its infancy, but they will expand, change and be adapted to fit the needs at hand.

No one is looking at a massive national upheaval to enforce social changes all at once, but rather I suspect that any such scenario will likely follow a pattern similar with previous social policy changes. Look at the other great programs that bettered people's lives, such as Medicare and SS, future socialized programs will start small and proceed slowly by dibs and dabs and be assimilated into our culture without a great national uproar. Over time, they will expand and adjust, adapting as needed.

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. No - nowhere in Europe provides food as part of the social welfare system

and some housing may be provided, but it's not the most common form - 18-19% in Sweden and Denmark, for instance - http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/62938/1/Fernandez_Social%20housing%20in%20Europe_2015.pdf (highest figure - 32%, the Netherlands (Denmark does have another 18% of people in co-operative housing, which you could say is 'socialist').

[Lurker Deluxe]

13. ok

Why would I work, above the table ... and pay taxes?

Greece.

If I am provided a home, food, healthcare, and education ...what more do I need?

As it is now I work to pay for taxes and insurance.

Unless you are planning on taxing my housing I would no longer have to work to pay home owner insurance or work to pay local taxes. If you intend to tax housing ... no different than now, my housing costs are taxes and insurance. What does the "free" housing look like, and where is it?

If I do not have to work, I do not need a car. No car insurance.

What do I need money for?

I bet I can make that and avoid paying taxes.

Greece.

This would crash the entire system in days. Does housing include utilities? Gas? Electric? Why would I ever shut off my HVAC? I do now, because it costs money. Why do I not eat steak and lobster every day? Because it costs money ...

Foolishness.

[cilla4progress]

24. Why would you use failed maximillist

examples - Greece?

I see it as ensuring a baseline social safety net. There are some fabulous detailed ideas here. If you want a big screen TV, Ivy League college (v. 4 year state university), elective surgery, caviar, or a McMansion - that's on you!

It's not much more than reasonable and humane.

Also it is an ECONOMIC not a political system.

[brooklynite]

34. If housing is provided by the safety net...

So the Government builds all housing? Do they own the property? Do you have a choice of sizes and designs?

[applegrove]

3. We call it liberalism in canada.

[GulfCoast66]

5. Since in my experience there are very, very few actual socialist on DU...

You will get lots of social democratic policy suggestions from people who think it is cool to call themselves socialist.

[brush]

6. Well since you say you're a socialist give us your version...

of how a socialistic society works, how is it different from the western Europe social demoracies, which are really highly regulated and taxed capitalistic systems.

[GulfCoast66]

7. My sincere apologies that I did a poor job of communication in my post.

I am not a socialist. It is a system that just does not work.

I am a believer in strongly regulated capitalism.

Human improvement depends on wealth, and no system yet discovered creates wealth like capitalism. Left un-checked and it leads to slavery.

But many countries have proven it can be checked very well.

I am no socialist, and fear the very idea of it becoming popular in the Democratic Party.

[rusty quoin]

9. Why do we argue about these little things like socialism when the country is obviously the opposite?

How much socialism is good? Well, a shitload more than what actually exists in government today.

Let’s get back to normal, and then we can start arguing with each other. FDR was normal for me.

[brush]

11. It's important because we have a major candidate...

and a very visible new rep. who claim to be socialists, and the repugs are trying to brand the whole Democratic Party as socialists.

I want to know if those who espouse it actually know what it is they're proponents of.

[rusty quoin]

22. Less than 20 years ago the Republicans branded the Democratic Party as liberals.

We said no we are progressives. I ask you if you know what socialism in Denmark is. I don’t give a crap what Republicans will say. They will always say it. Are you the type person who worries about that...maybe.

I like AOC. I like how she dismisses them. Liberals have been right about everything and whether or not you want to admit it or not, it involves social programs.

They call the whole party socialist. They do that. It is not. Just look at you.

[brush]

27. Please, it's not look at me. It's look at the voters.

You actually think they're going to vote for a candidate who calls himself a socialist, or a party who they keep hearing are socialists?

AOC, one of our party's avowed socialistss, just lectured that capitalism is irredeemable, and Sanders is leading in many polls.

It's about the voters, not me.

[AlexSFCA]

12. Socialism is by far the worst economic system

It’s not even worth discussing, it’s unsustainable and powerful enough to completely destroy large countries. What we are talking about is a social democratic system which is based on capitalism (=market economy). In this system, necessary services are covered through taxes which include universal healthcare, primary and secondary education. Under this system, no for profit health insurance company can provide basic heathcate but they can provide supplemental insurance coverage and thus workplace benefits will still matter.
Under this system, government does not generally own hospitals but merely serves as a single insurance pool - the only sustainable healthcare system known to humanity.
Sanders is trying to rebrand the term socialism - VERY stupid idea. Socialism means that everything is state owned and operated, it is fundamentally incompatible with US Constitution and it will gurantee he loses general election should he win the primary. Yes, even trumps crony capitalism is still MUCH better than socialism (in its correct sense - see wikipedia).

[procon]

17. Are you suggesting that only the academic definition of

a pure democracy is the only form in existence? Why would you assume that anyone would use such a similarly narrow definition of socialism to describe any of the modified and blended forms of social democracies found in most of the free world?

In opposing the modern day versions of social democracies, you're trying to equate the current views on socialized governments with the old scary version of Marxism, the spectre of the Red Menace instilled in US citizens by post WWII propaganda against the USSR and the spread of communism. However, today's social democracy is the global movement to have a democratic government that controls the greed of Laissez Faire Capitalism and focuses on actually helping uplift the common man, not just the 1 percenters or Big Biz, so that everyone has a place at the table and an equal chance at opportunities for achieving success.

[Humanist_Activist]

18. You really need to get your head out of the Cold War Mindset...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebel_Zapatista_Autonomous_Municipalities

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. "in its correct sense - see wikipedia" - OK, here we go:

Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management,[10] as well as the political theories and movements associated with them.[11] Social ownership can be public, collective or cooperative ownership, or citizen ownership of equity.[12] There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them,[13] with social ownership being the common element shared by its various forms.[5][14][15]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Notice that 'state', ie public, ownership is only one of the possible models. So we see that "socialism means that everything is state owned and operated" is very wrong.

Wikipedia continues "market socialism retains the use of monetary prices, factor markets and in some cases the profit motive, with respect to the operation of socially owned enterprises and the allocation of capital goods between them. Profits generated by these firms would be controlled directly by the workforce of each firm, or accrue to society at large in the form of a social dividend".

You say under your system "government does not generally own hospitals but merely serves as a single insurance pool - the only sustainable healthcare system known to humanity". That's laughable. Why is it not sustainable for governments to own hospitals? Governments own schools, after all, in nearly all countries. They don't have to buy education services from a private sector.

I think the problem is that you've given up discussing socialism, so you have blinkered yourself. You can't imagine ways of doing things that other countries are already using. You think that it's important that workplace healthcare benefits "matter". Why? What is your philosophical need for healthcare to be part of a compensation package?

[Codeine]

26. You are only correct

insofar as one accepts your very limited definition of socialism, which I don’t believe most scholars of economic systems would find an honest argument.

But yes, as long as we’re going to discuss systemic definitions, I will posit that most everyone here would agree that a state-run command economy is probably anathema to human nature and as such is utterly unworkable.

[betsuni]

14. What I think is weird is that the same people who've been saying for years that the

Democratic Party has no message, that messaging is vital if Trump is to be beaten, are now talking about complicated confusing things like capitalism, socialism, Democratic Socialism, centrists and moderates and the like. But it's Republicans who want unregulated capitalism and to turn the U.S. into a banana republic, this is not a secret.

[Humanist_Activist]

16. I'm an anarcho-syndicalist myself, basically I believe that we should...

at a bear minimum, not subject ourselves to private dictatorships for a 3rd or more of our lives. That we should have economic democracy along with political democracy. Where workers own and control the means of production of their respective employers themselves. The details of which may vary, but that's it as far as the economy goes, there would still be a market, with the employers still being private entities, etc. Just instead of shareholders and an idle capitalistic class that reap in the profits, the workers would benefit from their respective company's success directly.

[rownesheck]

21. Let's have the capitalists

explain how their system would work. Cuz ours certainly isn't anything to be proud of. Maybe it used to be before Republicans started cutting taxes on the millionaires and billionaires down to nothing, which, in effect, cuts funding for essential services we all need and use. Currently, our system is basically a "lords and serfs" pile of dogshit.

[uponit7771]

23. Fettered Capitalismsocialism model has shown to work for the middle class. There are examples

... of it continue to work today.

Blaming the lack of issue framing on capitalism is short sited

[cilla4progress]

25. It is useless to get hung up on labels.

What is a Christian? What is feminism? What is a liberal? What is GOD?!

We fall into the right wing trap. Labels don't matter. It's what's inside that counts.

[fescuerescue]

33. Every socialism argument

turns into debate over who's dictionary is more accurate.

So annoying.

[LonePirate]

28. A system that benefits everyone is more likely to induce willful participation.

[watoos]

30. Well said,

I live in a small borough of 1500 people. Back in the 60's our town got the Army Corps of Engineers to build our flood control project. A large stream runs through the middle of our town. After it was built we maintain it. Should residents of our town who lived on top of a hill have been given an exemption for paying for our project? Wasn't it in the best interests of every borough resident to not have to worry about our 2 bridges being washed out and our downtown flooded?

[watoos]

29. We don't have capitalism in America,

we have crony capitalism, aka, fascism.

Here are my definitions;

When we give tax dollars to the rich, like Trump gave to the soy bean farmers, it's capitalism.
When we give tax dollars to the poor it's Socialism.

If we want to rid America of Socialists, I know the 1st place to start; Alaska. Alaska is an example of Socialism. Every resident shares in the taxes imposed on the oil corporations.

[brush]

31. True enough on the crony capitalism/fascism analogy.

Bust are most voters informed enough about the differences between unfettered capitalism, regulated capitalism (social democracy) and sociaism to vote for a major candidate who calls himself a socialist or a party that's being branded as socialistic?

Not IMO. We need to vigorously push back against being branded as socialistic.

[fescuerescue]

32. Socialism arguments always devolve

to arguments over the definition of the word socialism.

Then everyone goes away angry having not changed their mind about socialism or capitalism or any other ism. Let alone the Webster dictionary definition which nobody really cares about, but everyone uses to support or attack the argument.