Finland reacts to Nikki Haley's assertions about their health care system

[JonLP24]

From Twitter

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Finland's UN Ambassador responded

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[Midnight Writer]

1. Finland has its priorities in order.

[Crunchy Frog]

2. All that money is buying us an insanely high maternal mortality rate.

[alwaysinasnit]

3. That was one classy, verbal walloping the Finnish UN Ambassador gave our (ignorant) UN Ambassador.

[Blue_true]

42. Yep, that is how to open a can of whup-ass. nt

[Grokenstein]

4. Nikki knows, though

...that this "happiness" thing is waaaay overrated.
She tried it once, didn't like it.

[democratisphere]

5. The Corrupt American Healthcare System is one of our crowning achievements

In white collar crime. I love the way the wretched redrumpflicans are always smearing other countries with successful, very cost effective healthcare systems. In America if your medical affliction doesn't kill you, the hospital infection will. Nikki Haley is an ass and part of the problem.

[YOHABLO]

6. They just lie about socialized medicine in countries like Finland and Canada.

It's all about profit and share holder dividends in this country ... for the fucking rich.

[Sherman A1]

11. Yup

That’s about it.

[Celerity]

7. love it!!!!!!!

So scary that someone who has been at that extreme level of power in her career is so arrogant, so full of knee-jerk, factually wrong American exceptionalism, so stupid, ill-informed, AND too lazy to do basic research before shooting her gob off. Just like her orange shithole of an ex-boss.

[LiberalLovinLug]

31. I now see in retrospect that he was using the White Power symbol every chance he got.

Every time a hand gesture is used, it is a natural occurrence for most people when explaining something, he makes sure to form his hand into this WP gesture. Just deplorable.

[BlueMTexpat]

8. I am fortunate enough to be

able to visit Finland (Helsinki) this summer. My husband and I will visit Sweden, Denmark and Norway as well. But we'll start off in Finland.

I have never been and am looking forward to this treat. One great-grandfather was 100 percent Danish and two of my mother's sisters married into Norwegian and Swedish families respectively so I have lots of Nordic cousins.

[madaboutharry]

13. If you visit Oslo,

spend time at the Norsk Folkemuseum (an outdoor history museum) and the Kon-Tiki Museum. They are wonderful. Also Olivia’s is a great Italian restaurant with not bad prices, which is rare in Norway since food is outrageously expensive.

[samnsara]

14. ive been to Denmark....and its white bread..seriously..thats what

..i was told before i went and thats what it is.


and watch out for their 'butter'...sometimes its whale lard.

[GetRidOfThem]

9. I have had the privilege of being in Finland about a year ago

Business trip, all expenses paid. Absolutely loved the place.I can see why they rank so high in the overall happiness ratings...

Finland is also a good place from which to visit other countries. I took the ferry from Helsinki to Estonia. Estonia was a real eye opener. I could easily see why that country was rated one of the most successful in development after the breakup of the Soviet Union.

[samnsara]

16. i have heard nothing but good about finland...

[JonLP24]

22. Estonia has easy & secure elections

What the U.S. Can Learn About Electronic Voting From This Tiny Eastern European Nation

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/5541876/estonia-elections-electronic-voting

[democrank]

10. Like the rest of The Trumpians, Nikki Haley just spews stuff.

Doesn’t have to be true, just spew it.

[rickyhall]

12. All repugs know the truth

But they're well paid to lie about it.

[erronis]

25. and most of them couldn't get a real job. You know making stuff vs. lobbying, lying, etc.

[KelleyKramer]

15. Dayum!! That last one slammed the door right in her face

That was one hellava take down

[FM123]

17. Love those fantastic Fins!

Small but mighty, for sure. When Russia tried to invade and take over the smaller and weaker country, the Fins stood up and fought back - three million people would stand against the Soviet Union’s 100+ million!

[Celerity]

39. It is Finns, not Fins, and Russia did rule it for over 109 years

from 1809 to 1918, when they finally (with Imperial Germany's help, right before the Germans lost WWI) manage to finally drive them out. They did repulse another Russian attempt (this time as the Soviet Union) to take it back, this time with the Nazi's aid (after Germany and Russia went to war). The Finns then negotiated a seprate peace and withdrew from the Axis powers.

Ironically, as per the Treaty of Paris in 1947, the Finns had to cede territory and pay the Soviet Union war reparations.

[Javaman]

18. nikki haley is the human equivalent of day old cold soup on a cold day. nt

[erronis]

26. Or a 3 day old hot-cross bun - stale and crusty. Not sure even trumpf would make a grab.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

46. I remember this goofy nursery rhyme from childhood

told to me by one of my grandmum's. I mention it because THIS is what Nikki Haley really is:

Peas porridge hot,
Peas porridge cold,
Peas porridge in the pot,
Nine days old.

[erronis]

61. The peas porridge rhyme is also one of my favorites.

I remember reading somewhere that porridges were the food of us common-people and they were kept alive (literally!) forever by continuously adding new ingredients to the existing sludge in the pot.

Us common-people also didn't get the "upper crust".

Not to forget about haggis. I remember by scottish girlfriend serving it along with scones and fairly rancid butter - a delicacy!

[Haggis for Breakfast]

62. My British relatives NEVER put butter in the fridge.

They claimed that it didn't need refrigeration. Well, that may been true 60 years ago, when we didn't have so many preservatitives, additives and fillers in our food. But my Mum still keeps it on the counter (in a waterford crystal dish with top). We used to have bread bins/boxes on the counter also, as bread was never stored in the cold either, again no preservatives, additives or fillers. My dad would have a fit if any of us young ones put the bread in the fridge. He's bellow, "the bread is too cold" and you couldn't spread the butter on it.

Back in the days when coffee cans had a "key" on the bottom of the can to open it up. Anyone remember that ?

[erronis]

66. Yup, I remember that key. And kippers for breakfast. Those were the days, my friend.

A rasher of bacon with runny eggs. Huge pile of dried toast with lingonberry jam (that's why we need room-temp butter!)

I love kippers and herring but my SO is not so fond of the odors in the AM.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

67. Oh the memories.

Kippers and eggs for breakfast !!

And I hated lingonberry marm. Ugh. Always unsweetened for some reason. Took the enamel off my teeth.

[erpowers]

19. Her Party Fought Against Women's Health Care

She criticizes Bernie Sanders for supposedly advocating for "skimping" on health care for women "when it comes to childbirth" when it was actually her party, the Republican Party, that fought as hard as they could to get women's health care eliminated from health care programs. Republican men openly asked why they should have to help pay for the insurance costs necessary to keep pregnant women safe during their pregnancies. She needs to stop attempting to lecture Bernie Sanders on paying for women's health care and bring the lecture to the men of her own party.

[LuvLoogie]

20. Bernie is misstating things. It costs way more than $60 in Finland or any European country.

The family may only be charged $60 out of pocket, but the actual costs are absorbed over the whole population through taxation. My wife had good insurance through work when she was hospitalized for three weeks while pregnant with our second daughter, who had to be delivered by cesarean 8 weeks prematurely and had to spend a month in the NICU. The total costs were over $300,000, but our out-of-pocket was only $300.

Her employer paid 100% of the premiums for her full-time employees, but just the employee and not the family. It was a great deal, considering that I had insurance though work that would cover my family when the time came. The business owner is an entrepreneur, and she runs a floral business out of a few of her real estate holdings. Yes, my wife working as a florist had great insurance, but that was definitely a rarity when you consider that her employer paid the entire premium. It takes all kinds.

That said, when my daughter was released 30 days later, she was then covered by my insurance through work. Totally different experience. The insurance company refused to pay for the $400/month rental of the apnea monitor our doctor prescribed. The insurance company said I had waited too long to make the claim. They started the timer at the day my daughter was delivered, but we didn't get the prescription until the day she was released.

I don't know how many hours I spent explaining the situation to people whose job it was to find any reason to deny a claim. They also claimed they never received faxed documents and made me fax them evidence of the fax before they would accept my re-sending the evidentiary documents relating to my daughter's hospitalization and doctor's orders.

The ACA changed a lot of that through insurance reform. My daughter has cerebral palsy and would be at mercy to the pre-existing condition denials and claim limits, as well as not have many of her medical needs covered by law.

I don't want a demagogue running against this bigot nihilist in the White House. The agendas of aging millionaire revolutionaries will not help my family.

[erronis]

27. Wouldn't it be great to not have to worry about, and argue with multiple insurance companies?

Let alone hospitals, specialists, laboratories, ambulance services, home care, etc.

The US system is stoooopid (if it can be called a system)!

[LuvLoogie]

33. It would be nice to have single payer. The costs would be lower over all, but the difference

would not be by a factor of 200 times. And 60 dollars for a birth would not be the only cost. There would be the increased taxation plus a likely premium for anyone not of retirement age. This is the thing that Bernie never discusses.

The ACA is not a perfect law, but it is a big fucking deal, a great law. But what took decades of building consensus took less than 10 months to wreck when the GOP got control. And they did it because they convinced enough people that the ACA was a government-controlled disaster.

I don't trust that Bernie is interested in building upon Democratic efforts. It is getting to the point where I need to fact check anything coming from him. He qualifies for Medicare. My daughter is at the mercy of a fragile consensus.

[JonLP24]

36. He proposes raising taxes on the wealthy

We pay for tax cuts, defense spending, and corporate welfare and no one asks where are we going to get money when things he proposes--which is a starting point in a negotiation-- would save money in the long run. Plus he does discuss it.

Link to tweet

Did Bernie Sanders vote for ACA and efforts to keep it? I believe he believes in first keeping it and building on it and several candidates have included Medicare for all in their platform.
https://www.healthreformvotes.org/congress/400357

When you said demagogue I thought you were talking about Trump.

Biden the other front runner didn't help out my family with his bankruptcy reform but I didn't mean for this thread to be a primaries thread. I included the Sanders tweet for context but is mainly about the Finland UN Ambassador responding to Haley's comments about Finland's health care system.

[The Wielding Truth]

51. Amazing, JonLP24. Thank you.

[oldsoftie]

56. That funding proposal for MFA will not raise 1.4 trillion a yr. And currently we spend 3+ trillion.

So if we're gonna do away with insurance, the cost est should be over 4 trillion, not 1.39.

[uponit7771]

37. The health care taxes are 2.0% of income, that's still WAAAAAAAAAY cheaper than what we pay

Earned income taxes


Earned gross income is taxed with a progressive state tax[6] (tax brackets 6% – 31.25%) and proportional communal taxes paid to municipalities (16.5% – 22.5%, average 19.17%) and parishes (1.00% – 2.00%, average 1.34%). The permanent residents of Finland also pay health insurance contributions, a medical care fee (1.19%) and a daily allowance contribution (0.82%) There is also an earned income tax credit for local taxes, making them slightly progressive despite their fixed rate.

[Johonny]

21. The truth as no effect on the stupid. Nikki is either stupid, a liar, or a stupid liar

but those qualities are essential to play to the GOP base these days.

[GoCubsGo]

23. Tens of thousands of South Carolinians have no health insurance because of this loathesome POS.

Myself, included. She turned down the ACA Medicare expansion, so consequently many of us are forced to pay upwards of $900 or more per month--that we do not have--for health insurance. Go fuck yourself, Nimrata.

[zentrum]

24. +++++1 million

[CentralMass]

28. Note to self, visit Finland.

[yonder]

29. Excellent counterpunching there.

[neeksgeek]

30. I had a college classmate who was a foreign exchange student from Finland

He was absolutely shocked by how we do health care in the US. And this was the 1990s.

[Tanuki]

32. And the infant mortality rate is more than twice as high here than in Finland.

USA, 5.8 per thousand vs. Finland, 2.5 per thousand


https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html

[CaptYossarian]

34. She'll need some aloe for those responses.

Better get a generic that costs less.

[CaptainTruth]

35. $60 may be the "copay" for the patient, but it costs much more than that.

It's just that higher income taxes subsidize the cost.

For 2019: "The Personal Income Tax Rate in Finland stands at 51.60 percent. Personal Income Tax Rate in Finland averaged 52.96 percent from 1995 until 2016, reaching an all time high of 62.20 percent in 1995 and a record low of 49.00 percent in 2010."

[link:https://tradingeconomics.com/finland/personal-income-tax-rate|

This is a big problem I have with politicians who say "in this country it only costs $X" or "in that country it's free." It's not free! Paying 50% income tax is not "free."

[uponit7771]

38. The taxes are 2% of their income (link) that's still way cheaper than what we pay here

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211938573#post20

[mr_lebowski]

52. That does kinda depend on how much you make though, to be fair ...

Unless there's a cap?

[oldsoftie]

57. And EVERYONE pays income taxes. We dont do that here.

Nor will we do what Finland or any of the other Nordic countries do to fund their systems. People just wont do it & politicians wont pass it

[JonLP24]

58. The people won't be a problem but the politicians may be which is why we need a blue wave in 2020

With somebody on top of the ticket that will actually try to past some of these things. I will keep pushing for change but if the resistance is going to come from our own party I don't see the point other than keeping Republicans from this.

[Honeycombe8]

40. Wow! Take THAT, Nikki Haley!

I want to move to Finland, now.

[Aussie105]

41. Nikki Nikki Nikki!

If you had half a brain and stopped for a second, you'd realise giving birth in a hospital probably costs the same the world over. It's just that the $60 in Finland is subsidised with government money via their health system.

The $60 isn't the actual cost of the hospital stay. Only Americans get the privilege of paying the full cost out of their own pocket.

But Nikki, all the best. I hope the mud that got kicked in your face washes off easily.

[Uncle Joe]

43. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread JonLP.

[Nitram]

44. Iceland rules!

[Tipperary]

49. Iceland?

[colsohlibgal]

45. Ouch!

Did she not think she would be corrected by the good people of Finland? If this caught her by surprise she is dumber that I imagined.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

47. Republicans don't actually . . . .

think.

[Irishxs]

48. You go, Finland!

The U. S. can’t begin to compare in health care or happiness. You win, we lose.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

50. our health care system is infected by parasites

The "health insurance industry" is a colony of parasites which does not provide health care nor improve it in any way. It simply stands between health care providers and patients and extracts wealth for itself.

[RDANGELO]

54. The right wingers are conditioned to beleive all of the rhetoric about other developed countries

having terrible health care. The interesting thing is that most of them have had their programs in place for decades, and health care is not a political issue. Nobody in these countries is trying to take them down.

[mr_lebowski]

55. Finland Finland Finland ... Finland has it all ...

[moondust]

59. Ya get what ya pay for, right Nik?

Pay more, get more! Right Nik? Nik?

[oasis]

60. STFU Nikki Haley.

time to fold and go home.

[struggle4progress]

63. Finland takes care of new moms way better than the US

By Sarah Kliffsarah
Mar 22, 2019, 9:30am EDT

... American moms are four times more likely to die in childbirth than Finnish moms. The maternal mortality rate in Finland has been going down for years. In the United States, it has risen steadily since 2000.

In Finland, 99.6 percent of pregnant women report getting regular prenatal care, likely a product of their universal health coverage system. In the United States, where millions of Americans are uninsured, only 77 percent of women began their prenatal care in the first trimester.

American babies are twice as likely to die before their first birthday as Finnish babies. In 2017, just 97 Finnish babies died in their first year of life, the lowest number the country has ever recorded.

Finland’s become well-known in public health circles for its “baby boxes,” which the government sends out to expectant mothers and include many of the basics they’ll need for the newborn like clothes, a bath towel, a bib, a book, and even a place for the baby to sleep. (In contrast, when I had a baby here in the United States last year, I didn’t get any free supplies. Instead, I got advice from other new moms to hoard as many diapers and other supplies as I could during my hospital stay, when the nurses weren’t looking ...

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/22/18276108/nikki-haley-finland-maternal-mortality

[struggle4progress]

64. Finland gets gold in mom rankings; U.S. maternal deaths on the rise

World May 5, 2014 6:02 PM EDT

Finland is the best country to be a mother, according to Save the Children’s 15th annual ranking released Monday, while Somalia comes in last. The United States hovers at 31 — about the same as last year — but is seeing an increase in maternal deaths, according to this study and others.

Known as the Mothers’ Index, Save the Children’s report ranks the well-being of mothers and children in 178 countries — 46 developed nations and 132 developing countries — based on health, nutrition, education and economic and political status ...

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/mothers-index

[struggle4progress]

65. Mortality rate, infant (per 1,000 live births)

Finland
1960:22
2017:2

United States
1960:26
2017:6

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.IMRT.IN?locations=FI