Do High School student counselors still tell kids this? "No, son, you are not college material."

[NNN0LHI]

Mine did.

I can remember that afternoon afternoon in 1973 like it was yesterday. I remember him telling me, "Don, you might be better suited to going to work in that union auto plant on the other side of town.

And I took that advice to heart. I drove over to that union auto plant the following day. And they hired me and about 200 more of us young men and women from my school. I was working there for several months before I graduated High School. But I graduated. Wasn't easy work by any stretch. But I had to do it to support myself and my wife and kids. So I did it. Retired 30 years later. I didn't spend one extra day in that factory than I had to. Soon as I got my 30 years in I went up to the front offices and signed up for the 30 and Out retirement my union had negotiated for us. With a great pension and medical benefits for my wife and I. Best move I ever made. I was 48 years old when I retired about 10 years ago. Doesn't get much better than that. Does it?

Know something else? I had just turned 18 years old the day I hired into that plant and it was a few months before I graduated High School I already had a job where I was getting better pay and benefits than my High School teachers were getting at that time in 1973.

That was the best advice that High School student counselor could have given me that day almost 40 years ago.

See what we have lost?

And you know something else? I did end up going to College. But that is a complete other story.

Don

[Posteritatis]

1. If you think guidance counselors are the main thing that changed there I want your glasses. (nt)

[2pooped2pop]

2. they told my son

that people like him should join the military. I cussed em out for it. That was about 7 years ago.

[Mmm_Bacon]

18. Not necessarily an insult btw...

[2pooped2pop]

19. sure as hell was

He sure wasn't telling his own kids same age same school that they ought to consider the military.

It was just for the stupid po boy.

[Mmm_Bacon]

20. Sounds like you are pushing your own view on it...

I've known many "stupid po boys" who would have had a shit life civilian side and did great in the military.

[2pooped2pop]

23. anytime the school suggest anyone join the military

they are out of line. I bet you they didn't tell the rich kids that they should join the military. They also suggested my daughter drop out, even though she was not flunking. She was being bullied and that was their solution. Told her she wouldn't need college.

I'm pretty sure I got it down right. Rich kids should go to college. Poor kids don't need school and should go military.

[Mmm_Bacon]

24. Wow...

"anytime the school suggest anyone join the military they are out of line"

So the military is not a valid career path for anyone? You want to explain that one a bit?

[2pooped2pop]

25. The school has no business trying to get my kid or anyones

kid to join the military. They do not suggest it to the rich kids. Kids are easy to manipulate. Asshole needs to give my kid the same advice and info his kids got, and not the advice and info to become military fodder.

Military needs to keep its ass out of the school. If someone wants to join the military, that is his or her own choice and should not be programmed into him by the school counselor.

[Mmm_Bacon]

27. Ohhh.. one of those...

I never understood folks who thought that military service was beneath them or their kids. It's a higher form of NIMBY.

Also, what about all those young adults who serve who would have missed out on a great career if it hadn't been for a counselor suggesting it or a recruiter visiting the school? Would you deny them their opportunity?

Lastly, some kids are not college material when they graduate high school and some never are. This myth that "college = success" is causing families and young adults to throw money down the toilet for no discernible purpose and go into debt.

[2pooped2pop]

28. oh one of those?

u should probably not come on here and start trying to insult people.

And if my son had been convinced to join, then sent off to Bush's illegal war? That would just be ok for your kid would it?

No, I wouldn't suggest anyone join the military as it has become. Fodder for bullshit wars.

Our soldiers have been abused and misused.

The only people with a real career that won't be ruined by front line duty are the rich kids who go in as Sgt. or higher.

No, my kid is not fodder. Send your own damned kids.

[Mmm_Bacon]

29. Actually I went myself...

... and would be glad if my kids follow in my footsteps.

Also, it isn't an insult unless you choose to perceive it as such. There is a group of people who think service is something for other people and you seem to fall into it. It's your right and choice so feel free to run with it.

Out of curiosity, what did your child end up doing?

[lunatica]

33. I'm sure the dead and wounded soldiers and the people they killed and maimed

agree totally with your glamorized view of the military.

You know, if you think war is honorable that's your prerogative. It's your life to use of misuse. But you'll find more and more people are waking up to the fact that Bush's wars have nothing to do with honor and everything to do with the interests of the 1% and the military industrial complex and American Imperialism. you may be proud of going to war and killing people you never knew because Bush made it looks patriotic and noble, but not everyone is. There is an epidemic of suicides among our returning soldiers. Why do you think that is?

[2pooped2pop]

31. hmmmmm

I never understood folks who thought that military service was beneath them or their kids. It's a higher form of NIMBY.

Beneath them? I never said that. I said the school has no business convincing a certain set of not rich kids to join.

Also, what about all those young adults who serve who would have missed out on a great career if it hadn't been for a counselor suggesting it or a recruiter visiting the school? Would you deny them their opportunity?

I don't think anyone would miss a great career because someone didn't coerce them into joining something that they cannot begin to understand. There are plenty of opportunities to join after high school. They do not need to be convinced to be fodder while still underage. Many of those kids with a "great career" are the rich kids who enlist as an officer and never see actual combat. Great career for some, cannon fodder for others.

Lastly, some kids are not college material when they graduate high school and some never are. This myth that "college = success" is causing families and young adults to throw money down the toilet for no discernible purpose and go into debt.

really dude? All kids can get some use out of higher education. So you are suggesting that some kids are just too stupid to learn and need to join the military? I mean why waste your parents money when you can go to war?

lol, you a recruiter? lol

[Skidmore]

34. I've never understood someone who

thinks the meatgrinder war machine is such a "holy " calling. To choose a career in which you agree to kill on command speaks more to something in that person's psychological makeup.

[Mmm_Bacon]

41. Holy is your word.. not mine...

I've built schools, brought health care to communities, helped reform corrupt police and targeted those who themselves targeted men, women and children indiscriminately.

I'm quite happy with my choices and what they represent about my psychological makeup.

[kimbutgar]

3. I went to an all girls school and was advised to marry young and have kids

The summer before my senior year my mother sent me to Chicago to visit my grandmother.my uncle had farm in michigan and grandma spent the summer there. While there I met some of the most ignorant people in my life. I vowed to do better in school.my senior year I was discouraged about going to college. But I went to the jc did my two years and transferred to the university got my BA and got the American dream. I was discouraged by authority figures but I never gave up. My motto in life is " it never hurts to try". 20 years latI went back to school for teaching credential and got a 3.98 gpa.

[lunatica]

35. You're a woman after my own heart

[liberal N proud]

4. The counselors in our daughters school didn't tell them anything.

The only talked to the kids in honors classes and athletes.

I remember the counselor in school telling me I didn't need algebra and calculus because I wasn't going to college.

I fooled his ass, graduated with two degrees, one in engineering.

I now manage the design group in the engineering department.

[bluestateguy]

5. High school counselors have a tough job

On the one hand they have to encourage kids to have some ambition and apply to some colleges that may not accept them.

On the other hand, a little common sense is required if a kid comes into your office with a 2.5 GPA and mediocre SATs saying he wants to apply to Harvard. At that point you need to have a gentle conversation with the student.

[central scrutinizer]

9. huge caseloads

at our local high school there are three counselors for over 1500 students. hard to find the time to give each student the personal attention needed to do the job thoroughly. I work at the local university and every summer meet with incoming undeclared freshmen and help them pick out their first term's classes. I hear this often "I don't know what I want to do or what major I should pursue." they are going to college on inertia and many will rack up a lot of debt to little benefit.

[hack89]

6. Our local high school sends about 75% of its graduates to college

they really seem to have the attitude that if your kid wants to go to college then they will do what it takes to make it happen.

So perhaps the difference is that the counselors ask questions and listen carefully to what the kid wants before "telling" them anything.

[xchrom]

7. Higher Ed. Then & now offered/offers an awful lot of opportunity

To be telling some one they don't have the 'material'.

Seems like a rote answer for 'certain kids'.

You did go later after all.

[NNN0LHI]

12. The reason I eventually did go is because that union auto plant paid me to go to college

The factory gave us an aptitude test to see if we were qualified to be trained for certain skilled job classifications.

Those of us who passed the test then went through an 8000 hour training program which consisted of about 3700 hours of college courses. The other 4300 hours consisted of on the job training. And my company not only paid for all our training and books, It also paid us our standard hourly rate for every one of those 8000 hours.

Don

[xchrom]

13. That's great. Wonderful & something

Souls do more of now.

But that doesn't negate the wealth of things you could have learned & become proficient in at an earlier stage.

Rocket science - as you learned - isn't the only thing available.

You took the path you took and it worked - that doesn't mean higher Ed. Wouldn't have at that time. But you didn't do that.

[Fumesucker]

8. I'm older than you a bit..

And I can't even imagine working in the same place for thirty years, I would have committed seppuku a long, long time before that happened, it practically gives me hives just thinking about it.

Suffering from ADD is a real burden sometimes while other times it's a huge joy.

[NNN0LHI]

15. Very few of us did make the full 30 years

Last edited Sat Aug 25, 2012, 01:56 PM - Edit history (1)

About half of those 200 new employees who hired in on the same day I did never made it to lunch. They punched their card and walked out.

And out of what was left after that only 2 of us made it the full 30 years to retirement.

It was a pretty rough job.

So what you are describing is typical.

Don

[A HERETIC I AM]

10. And those days are loooong gone

"I had just turned 18 years old the day I hired into that plant and it was a few months before I graduated High School I already had a job where I was getting better pay and benefits than my High School teachers were getting at that time in 1973."

Those days are long gone and have been for well over 30 years.

The reasons why warrant their own forum, much less their own thread.

[NNN0LHI]

14. Deleted because I posted in the wrong place

[MichiganVote]

11. Maybe in the backwoods.

[DiverDave]

16. Are you kidding? they dont care

as long as the student can qualify for a student loan.
The school gets the money up-front.
The student flunks out, or worse (for the student) graduates with a worthless degree.

Just another way to steal taxpayers money.

[Riftaxe]

17. And deprive colleges

of the incredibly expanding and profitable remedial education programs...I highly doubt it.

I often wonder if that is not the reason that kids are allowed to graduate these days, without being able to solve 5th grade math problems.

[IgnatiusReilly]

21. A HS Counselor told

my best friend that he should be a Stage Coach Driver and that was in 1979.

I don't take much stock in what HS Counselors have to say anymore.

[KG]

22. my HS counselor told me I oughta go to college. couldn't get anybody else in my life to help

me with that, tho...

[TBF]

32. Mine told me to look at local community colleges -

which was actually pretty forward in our rural poor area. I had already been accepted to my small private school of choice and also the best public university in the state before he figured out my test scores were actually excellent and I probably could have gone to many schools ... money though was an issue. I went to the state school (well known) and ended up with a Masters.

[hlthe2b]

26. I remember a female counselor, with whom I'd had little contact, delivering a very sexist negative

message to me, regarding my future goals and college/career plans. While I more than proved her wrong, it still shocks me that this person, who did not know me at all, yet had the test scores and grade evidence that should have had her doing everything possible to encourage my goals, would have been so negative. And while women did face a lot more barriers than now in the field I'd chosen, her negativity still grates.

I worry about the kids that are actually hurt by those counselors who project their own failings on the kids.

[RKP5637]

36. That, is a real problem, what counselors/teachers say can have such a lasting effect on

kids at an impressionable age. Some counselors/teachers should not even be around kids, they should be in a different profession.

[TBF]

30. In my fast-growing suburb we have today's equivalent -

a new high school focused on "careers". We have 1/2 the town zoned to a huge high school, 1/2 zoned to what is basically a new college prep high school by the new sub-divisions, and now this new one opening next fall. It is sort of between the two and you apply rather than get zoned to it. Everyone in this city is eligible to apply. They want kids who are focused towards finish a 2-yr CC degree simultaneously with high school (we have a good CC system here), headed towards various medical para-professional roles (we are near a large medical center), and other types of skilled employment (welding, electronics etc) that will not require a 4-yr degree.

These kids will have counseling, assistance with internships, etc ... I think it is brilliant and makes so much more sense than billions spent on standardized testing and all the charter schools popping up.

[RKP5637]

39. That sounds incredible. IMO the entire educational experience needs to be rethought in

the US for the 21st century. I think education really needs to be focused on delivering the skill sets to ensure one can have a meaningful job upon graduation. Today, it is too haphazard. We also need to rethink for the 21st century what a job means. Jobs in the old traditional sense just might not be available for everyone. One key element is to get the politicians out of education. Too many blunderbusses have a say in the structure of educational systems.

You are so lucky, it sounds like where you are real thought has been given to things, such as I was mentioning above.

[davidpdx]

37. You were lucky to grow up in an era where we still had those kinds of jobs

I would have been about 2 years old when you graduated and in the wrong part of the country (most of the auto plants are in the east). Getting out when you did was excellent timing.

What are you doing to pass the all that time you have on your hands? You are still young.

For me it wasn't my guidance counselor, but a math teacher in the 8th grade that told my mom I'd never go to college. I'd love to say fuck you to him.

-BA Speech Communications (minoring in Business)
-MBA
-Working on a Doctorate of Business Administration (halfway through)

[NNN0LHI]

40. I have a wife who I love more today than I did the day we were married in 1973

We enjoy doing things together.

Fishing, walking the dogs, working in the house and yard, taking care of our mothers with alzheimer's, etc. We stay real busy.

We were literally made for each other. About as compatible as two people can ever hope to be. We discuss everything but never argue.

She is by far the most intelligent, sensible, sweetest and beautiful person I have known in my entire life.

I got really lucky.

Don

[Inkfreak]

38. I still harbor a bit of a grudge against my councilor

I was unfocused and my grades began slipping. I decided to join the Army. When she brought me in for a session (the 1st in 2yrs) she said my choice was "stupid". Exact quote. I walked out of that office a little bitter. In my school it seemed only a few got unfiltered access to the guidance office. The "cool" kids I guess. I dunno. I was put off by the lot of em. Flash forward over a decade later & I am doing quite well due to my military experience. And while u may not know the outcome of all my graduating class, I know of almost a dozen who are not doing better. It's not a competition and I wish them well. But I do take a certain amount of satisfaction in the fact she was dead wrong.

A good friend of mine now is a councilor. Happy to say he is s far cry from any that I encountered as a kid. He cares a great deal.

[bluestateguy]

42. You chose to serve your country and that is always an honorable choice

Any counselor who calls that choice "stupid" should be dismissed.