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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJudge blocks California's ban on magazines holding more than 10 rounds
A federal judge in California on Friday ruled against the Golden States ban on gun magazines that are able to hold more than 10 rounds.
U.S. District Court Judge Roger T. Benitez said the rule violates the Second Amendment and infringes upon citizens rights to defend themselves.
Californias law prohibiting acquisition and possession of magazines able to hold any more than 10 rounds places a severe restriction on the core right of self-defense of the home such that it amounts to a destruction of the right and is unconstitutional under any level of scrutiny, he wrote in an 86-page decision.
Californias ban is far-reaching, absolute, and permanent. The ban on acquisition and possession on magazines able to hold more than 10 rounds, together with the substantial criminal penalties threatening a law-abiding, responsible, citizen who desires such magazines to protect hearth and home, imposes a burden on the constitutional right that this Court judges as severe.
Benitez, a George W. Bush appointee who serves on the bench for the Southern District of California, also wrote that Californias ban unfairly impacts a wide swath of the states gun owners, as many choose to use magazines containing over 10 rounds for their defense.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/436537-judge-strikes-down-californias-ban-on-magazines-holding-more-than-10
roamer65
(36,745 posts)Charge violators under state law and jail them.
BigmanPigman
(51,584 posts)Can they do that?
former9thward
(31,981 posts)Joe941
(2,848 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)Just wondering.
roamer65
(36,745 posts)A lot of red states have only one clinic that is struggling to survive.
This ruling on the CA law will be appealed and it will be upheld. That is why CA should go ahead with enforcement.
Polybius
(15,385 posts)What if a Red state ignored gay marriage and banned all abortions? CA will win the appeal.
Socal31
(2,484 posts)This will get over-turned in the 9th, and land at the SCOTUS with several other similar cases in the next 2-4 years.
DetroitLegalBeagle
(1,922 posts)As I am currently somewhat inebriated celebrating my parents 45th wedding anniversary. Spell check is saving my butt right now.
This ruling was written in such a way that you can see he expects this to go all the way to Scotus. He uses both Heller and Caetano and invokes strict scrutiny.
I expect the full 9th to overturn and I expect it to be appealed higher.
Socal31
(2,484 posts)I concur.
DetroitLegalBeagle
(1,922 posts)I would be very surprised if it doesnt.
However, on the off chance it doesn't, California will be pressured to hold off on appealing to Scotus, similar to how DC decided against it when their ccw law was tossed. Dont want to set the national precedent.
Socal31
(2,484 posts)I think this particular issue will see the most dramatic rulings over the next 4 years, but I've been wrong many times.
Cheers.
DFW
(54,349 posts)Does this judge think ISIS or the Taliban are going to invade Orange County, or is he just trying to throw Wayne LaPierre a bone?
I mean, you either need to take a little more target practice or quit making enemies who want to kill you by the barrel full.*
*Get it?
malaise
(268,930 posts)Has LaPierre thrown him a bone?
(and how fat are those monthly envelopes?
krispos42
(49,445 posts)Ten fingers, ten toes, and ten rounds. It's not based on any research or anything. Why not 7? Or 3? Or 12? A revolver usually holds 6. What number is the point at where rights are being taken away? California simply latched onto 10 rounds in 1989 or so, and that because a "reasonable" number. New Jersey and Connecticut followed suit, followed by the Federal ban in 1993. New York tried to impose a 7-round limit after Sandy Hook but I think it was struck down by the courts.
Frankly it doesn't do much except motivate people to vote for Republicans. A lot of issues are abstract and cerebral and hypothetical, but gun owners know their guns. Guns are tangible goods they are familiar with, and that gives them knowledge and motivation and confidence.
I mean, I know many on DU would love to see the right removed outright, which means that these kinds of laws are just one step towards that goal and they give absolutely zero farts about them being legislated into nothing.
My personal reasoning goes something like this:
The odds of me being in a situation where I have to point my gun at somebody are pretty damn small.
Assuming that happens, the odds of me having to actually shoot the gun are fairly small; most defensive gun uses don't actually involve shooting. Presentation is enough to either scare off the attacker or apprehend them.
However, if I beat those combined odds then I'm in a pretty serious situation and I don't want to have to be fumbling with a reload when I'm fighting for my life. Adrenaline, panic, desperate maneuvering, etc., are not conductive to reloading.
Assuming I survive, I expect I will have fired as many rounds as needed to end the situation. Since handguns are not particularly powerful and shot placement can easily go to hell during a crisis, it can take several hits to stop a threat quickly, and several shots to make a hit. Defensive handgunners often train to shoot rapid pairs, so a 10-round magazine really means five attempts to hit a threat.
I can go into further detail, but basically it's fairly common for fear, anger, adrenaline, etc. to enable attackers to keep attacking even after being shot. Only a small part of a person will result in a near-instant incapacitation when shot. A larger area will result in incapacitation in minutes, and the balance of the body in hours.
That's the reality. A really dedicated person that goes to self-defense courses and shoots in defensive competitions frequently? Yeah, he's probably fine. He's got the training and mentality and practice and reflexes. Me? I ain't got the budget to shoot a thousand rounds a month in practice and competition, nor to travel to all those events.
Flame away.
MFM008
(19,805 posts)Arent particularly powerful?
I own a .357.
Want to bet unless its swarms of criminals
I cound make a dent in that.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)People carry handguns for convenience or concealment, not firepower. That's why cops, when they know they're going into a dangerous situation, take a shotgun or a rifle out of their cruiser.
Your .357 Mag is about a third of the power of a .223 Rem. It's powerful... for a handgun. But it's a handgun. My 9mmm pistol is medium powered for a handgun, but it's a quarter of a .223 and an eighth of a .308. I have it because of ease of access, ease of storage, and ease of handling. I live on a small property in a small house with small rooms, on 2 levels, with a spiral staircase between them. I can't effectively use a long gun if I'm going to investigate bumps in the night. But if I was in a different situation I'd be leaning towards a long gun instead.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)Amishman
(5,555 posts)Given the increasing number of home invasions, perhaps 15 bullets might be a better number, but I can't see any legit arguments for more than that.
The real concern and potential for this to get overturned in the courts is the lack of compensation for the surrendered clips. Doesn't seem to pass the 5th amendment IMO.
Raise the limit by 5 and pay people for their surrendered property and this should be a home run of common sense, to which there wouldn't be any legitimate grounds for criticism.
Takket
(21,560 posts)What are the statistics to back that up? Specifically, how often in a home invasion scenario does the defender fire more than ten shots?
and what is the law enforcement projection for how often a homeowner will be killed after the 10th shot because an invader "turns the tables" on them, either while changing magazines, or because the homeowner only owns 1 magazine.
Without such figures to back up the "burden" statement, the judge has nothing more than an uninformed opinion, which is every bit as valuable as a pile of dog shit.
hack89
(39,171 posts)That there is no science behind the law?
hack89
(39,171 posts)Especially since 10 round magazines are not common. Do you think it was a back door attempt to ban most semiautomatic pistols?
Socal31
(2,484 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,888 posts)ansible
(1,718 posts)Online purchase of ammo is banned, and purchasing them at a store requires a background check.
roamer65
(36,745 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)Ammo has been taxed for decades.
moondust
(19,972 posts)and M60 machine gun but finding that it's a "severe restriction on the core right of self-defense of the home." Please do something before it's too late.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,328 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)Give me a history lesson where states passed all these laws enforcing militia membership.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,328 posts)Regulation is not taking away your gun. Pushing the argument to the other extreme, no one should object to me having my own private stash of ICBMs, each with a MIRV (multiple independently-targetable re-entry vehicle). Between the ridiculous extremes -- taking away our guns vs anything anyone can buy, build, or steal -- is reasonable regulation.
Once upon a time, you could buy "tommy" guns (Thompson submachine guns) by mail order. Regulations ended that around the time of Bonnie and Clyde. Cities and states have long regulated firearm possession. The Supreme Court ignored a couple of centuries of precedent in deciding Heller.
Civilians do not have a need for military weaponry. Those who desire to possess military weaponry should be able to do so under "well-regulated" control -- either in the national military or a state militia.
hack89
(39,171 posts)There has never been gun regulation restricting gun ownership to militia service. There was no precedent to ignore. Gun ownership has always been an individual and regulated right.
On edit: the 2A is not the issue here. Heller says the 2a allows strict regulation. AWBs are perfectly constitutional. There is simply a lack of broad and deep public support.
Goodheart
(5,321 posts)His stupid "unconstitutionality" argument could have been applied if the state of California had banned the use of bazookas and shoulder rocket propelled grenades, instead.