You cannot be anti-abortion and also willing to go to war

[RainDog]

Any politician that claims he or she is "pro-life" is lying if he or she does not extend that view of the sanctity of life to the battlefield.

An absolute position on abortion is nothing more than sexism and racism in disguise if someone says... but there is such a thing as "just war" that makes it okay to kill people.

This position (which I've seen argued as the position of the Catholic church) is nonsensical. If there are exceptions concerning the sanctity of life, that exception should extend to individuals.

God didn't make one view of morality for individuals and another for the state, even tho those who have a political stake in claiming a difference will hold to this belief, along with so many others that make absolutely no sense until you recognize they can make such a claim because of their SELFISH belief that they benefit from this difference.

Yet they chide females for being selfish if they don't think conception as a result of rape is a-okay.

So, which one is it, "pro-lifers?" Are you pacifists or are you sexist, racist hypocrites?

[still_one]

1. What if you are against going to war but for abortion?

[RainDog]

2. I guess you'd have to ask someone who understands that position n/t

[Incitatus]

5. Then you respect human life and personal freedom.

That is assuming you don't think a fetus is a human being.

[still_one]

9. Exactly. /nt

[former-republican]

3. Don't use the bible or the Catholic church to try and wrap your head

around abortion .

If you believe in the bible and God that's fine but in the Bible God had plenty of people killed.

The sanctity of life argument being enforced by bible beliefs is comical to me





If this offends anyone I apologize . I'm still new here.
I'm sure we have religious members here . I will delete my post if told to by Any member on this forum.

I don't want to offend anyones religion

[hollysmom]

7. you are kind of touching on something I have been thinking.

I don't really think people thought about children thousands of years ago, the way we think about them now. I don't think there is anything in the bible about abortion and not because they weren't done then, I would not be surprised if there were not coat hanger equivalents.

I think that there is a twisting of some people's love of children that that is being used by people in power, but the whole abortion topic politically is just another power play, by the church and by politicians.

[former-republican]

8. God said to Abraham kill me a son

There are passages in the bible where it talks about unborn .

Way too deep for me though.

[RainDog]

22. I'm just noting that the difference is based upon sexism

not morality.

And sexism is not "godly."

You cannot offend my religion - I am an agnostic, at best.

I just detest the self righteous arguments that religions use to justify their sexism, that's all.

[JohnnyRingo]

4. I've never seen a Republican give a rat's ass about...

...a baby after it's left the womb.

No food? That's the mother's fault.
No health care? The parents should have shopped around for insurance.
Maimed in a war? Thank you for your service, but you knew the risk before you signed up.
Finally got a good paying union job? You need reigned in.
Old and counting on Social Security? You should have saved your money.

Thank God and Ronald Reagan you were born.

[former-republican]

6. Cut welfare , food stamps , any type of assistance for a young mother

You're on your own .

The Republican party ...... the party of empathy for baby's

[JohnnyRingo]

25. I know one guy I used to work with who isn't a hippocrite.

He's a Tea Bagger and a staunch dyed in the wool free market Republican who donates money to NARAL. He believes they do good work in "protecting women's right to choose".

Did I mention he's also an affirmed racist who believes most aborted fetuses are black? hahaha The point is that not all Republicans here in Ohio are religous nuts.

[cali]

10. nonsense. human beings hold contradictory positions all the time.

I'm adamantly against the death penalty and pro-choice, for example. I'd bet you also hold some apparently contradictory positions. Most of us do.

And as E.M. Forster so sagely said: "Only hypocrites cannot forgive hypocrisy".

Yours is a one dimensional argument.

I don't believe god made any view of morality, in any case. What evidence do you have that god exists.

I still believe that women have every right to make their own decisions about their bodies- including whether or not to get an abortion.

By the way, do you oppose the dp?

[Fumesucker]

11. Just because humans are hypocrites doesn't excuse hypocrisy or make it right..

Also hypocrisy is not a binary condition, it is an analog one, there are infinite gradations of hypocrisy and the anti-choicer who nonetheless is all for war is toward the upper end of the hypocrisy scale.

Instructive it is to note that hypocrisy is the sin against which Jesus the Christ preached the most often and the most forcefully, Christians should be especially wary of committing hypocritical acts but some of them often seem like the most hypocritical members of our society.

FWIW I oppose the death penalty in all cases.

It's yours that is the one dimensional argument, not the OP.

[cali]

14. lol. although I agree with you that there are gradations of hypocrisy

your post illustrates Mr. Forster's gentle trap. How about an anti-choicer who is against who is for defensive war? Is that person a hypocrite.

And no, bringing god into it, isn't the way to go.

I oppose the dp in all circumstances but am decidedly pro-choice. That looks like hypocrisy to many.

And sorry, the op is completely one dimensional and partisan.

[Fumesucker]

17. I didn't say I can't forgive hypocrisy..

But excusing it is another matter entirely.

I also believe in a right to defend oneself if attacked, I certainly don't claim to be free of hypocrisy but I do try to be aware of my own transgressions in that regard.

The US hasn't been involved in a defensive war since 1945 and yet we have been the most warlike nation on the planet in that time period.

[RainDog]

20. The rationale is not the same

you can be against the death penalty because it is applied in such a racist manner in this nation, for instance, but view a blastocyst as god does... something that is sometimes aborted before any real sign of pregnancy is evident. We have Roe v. Wade to deal with issues of viability - and we have doctors and those women who are pregnant who are able to make what are sometimes difficult decisions.

But how can anyone claim that no one can have an abortion b/c they consider it murder, yet not hold the same view of war - it makes absolutely no sense from the perspective of someone who claims all life is sacred and, for that reason, women may not have abortions.

Well, suddenly, when a life is born, it's no longer sacred enough to not bomb some country, for instance, which would include harming pregnant women?

I don't get it. I don't have a belief in god - I'm just talking about Paul Ryan's view of the world.

[Grave Grumbler]

12. Sure you can.

An analogy: I support laws prohibiting murder, but I support (in retrospect) the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima in spite of the fact that it killed thousands of innocents.

War has different rules.

[orleans]

13. so as long as people die in a large group you're good to go?

that's really fucked up
(of course that's just my opinion)

[Grave Grumbler]

16. Along with a sizeable number here on DU...yes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021053218

Under these circumstances, anyway.

[cali]

15. And how about abortion.

Are YOU pro-choice? Answer straight up.

And dog shit on your "war has different rules."

[Grave Grumbler]

18. Yes. I am pro-choice. Why would you think otherwise?

Just so there's no possibility of misunderstanding, that means I support a woman's right to have an abortion if she so desires. Happy?

And dog shit on your "war has different rules."

Many on this board disagree. As does our President, I would point out.

[RainDog]

21. How is an abortion a murder?

A woman is supposed to be forced to carry a fetus to term, for instance, that has no chance of survival outside of the womb. Why should a woman have to do that?

If a father could donate an organ to his child that would save his or her life, that father is not required to do so. That father is not committing murder if he refuses to donate an organ to that child - or to someone else's child, for that matter.

Why is one situation labeled as "murder" and another situation labeled as "self determination?"

[Grave Grumbler]

23. I don't believe it is.

A woman is supposed to be forced to carry a fetus to term, for instance, that has no chance of survival outside of the womb. Why should a woman have to do that?

She shouldn't (and doesn't) have to do so.

[RainDog]

26. The Ryan stance on abortion

does not want women to have this option. That was the point of my mini rant.

[LAGC]

19. Republicans only care about children before they are born and once they turn 17.

We can't be aborting all those potential killing machines, you know...

[rug]

24. That is consistent.

http://www.consistent-life.org/

[11 Bravo]

27. That could be the only example of consistency Mitt Romney has ever displayed.

He is rabidly anti-choice, and he sure as shit wasn't willing to take his own privileged candy-ass to war. (Although he was more than happy to see others fight and die.)

[WCGreen]

28. Or capital punishment....

Don't forget that...