General Discussion
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We are "discussing" the need for everyone to get health insurance. He says it's wrong because we are forcing people to help others, it should be done on a volunteer basis. His rational is maybe we should just get a group of goons to go take things from people who has and give to those we think are less fortunate. All our laws and regulations are making us into a less than desirable place to live. I told him we already tired his way, where people voluntarily helped each other. It resulted in things like robber barons, indentured servitude and child labor, not to mention slavery and 2nd class citizens. He has not come back yet, but I would like some more talking points on why we can't not depend solely on people's good nature to help with all our ills. Thanks for any help,
southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)for that person. Tell him liberals believe everyone should pay for their own health care. There are exceptions like Medicaid for the very very ill and we should do the christain thing and help those people who can't health themselves.
madmom
(9,681 posts)it doesn't work that way because most will not want to help anyone they don't know, some not even then. So lots will be left with no help.Therefore we must all help everyone who needs it.
This discussion is about Obama-care.
catbyte
(34,165 posts)It is abysmal. Ask him who is supposed to help if wealty people don't help. Rich people give less than others as a percentage of income. We can't make up the deficit in charity-we people of modest incomes are barely making it as it is. The Constitution also says government provides for the common welfare of its citizens and that means not let them live sick and in grinding poverty.
Lastly, tell him to stop being so fucking selfish and remind him he or people he loves will need help some day. People like your friend piss me off to no end. Sorry.
Diane
Anishinaabe in MI
southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)had been in office there would be no complaints from the tea party. None. All you got to tell him it is Romneycare and the people in that state are happy with the coverage.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)society. If he doesn't want to help people, move to Somalia.
elleng
(130,126 posts)and if he doesn't recognize the need for community, for societies to succeed, I don't know what more I can say.
AND
No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.
John Donne
southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)people who are poor just suffering or dying. Does he think doctors and hospitals will have people cold enough to say no $$, no treatment and watch people die on their doorstep? People just aren't that callous any more, not when something can be done to save a life. In the libertarians' ideal 19th century, there was not nearly as much that could be done and so people dying did not seem so preventable.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)madmom
(9,681 posts)Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)What if Jesus was a Republican(actually titled The Not So Social Gospel) - from a Catholic publication
The Lazy Paralytic
1. When Jesus returned to Capernaum after some days, it was reported that he was at his home. 2. So many gathered around that there was no longer room for them, not even in front of the door; and he was speaking the word to them. 3. Then some people came, bringing to him a paralyzed man, carried by four of them. 4. And when they could not bring him to Jesus because of the crowd, they removed the roof above him; and after having dug through it, they let down the mat on which the paralytic lay. 5. When Jesus saw this he grew angry, Why did you wreck my roof? Do you have any idea how much that cost to install? Do you know how many tables and chairs I had to make in my carpentry shop to pay for that roof? The reeds alone cost five talents. I had them carted in from Bethany. 6. The disciples had never seen Jesus so angry about his possessions. He continued, This house is my life. And the roof is the best part. The disciples fell silent. 7. Its bad enough that you trash my private property, now you want me to heal you? said Jesus, And did you not see the stone walls around this house? Yes, said the mans friends. Are these not the stone walls common to the towns and villages of Galilee?" 8. No, Jesus answered. This is a gated community. How did you get in? The mans friends grew silent. 9. Then Jesus turned and said to the paralytic, Besides, cant you take care of your own health problems? Im sure that your family can care for you, or maybe the synagogue can help out. 10. No, Lord, answered the man's friends. There is no one. His injuries are too severe. To whom else can we go? 11. Well, not me, said Jesus. What would happen if I provided access to free health care for everyone? That would mean that people would not only get lazy and entitled, but they would take advantage of the system. 12. Besides, look at me: Im healthy. And you know why? Because I worked hard for my money, and took care of myself. The paralyzed man then grew sad and he addressed Jesus. But I did work, Lord, said the paralytic. Until an accident rendered me paralyzed. Yes, said the mans friends. He worked very hard. 13. Well, said Jesus, Thats just part of life, isnt it? Then what am I to do, Lord? said the paralytic. I dont know. Why dont you sell your mat? 14. All in the crowd then grew sad. Actually, you know what you can do?" said Jesus. "You can reimburse me for my roof. Or Ill sue you." And all were amazed. 15. We have never seen anything like this, said the crowd.
http://www.americamagazine.org/blog/entry.cfm?blog_id=2&entry_id=5312
Wounded Bear
(58,436 posts)I guess you meant 'tried', but "we're tired of his way" works, too.
madmom
(9,681 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)You will never convince them of anything.
EC
(12,287 posts)He's now in the hospital with liver and other organ failure...guess who is paying for that? Yeah, all of us. So we aren't forcing anyone to get anything they don't already have. Just reducing our cost by making them take their responsibility for some of the bill.
If he thinks they should be deprived of care, isn't that murder by deprived indifference?
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)All of our laws and regulations make a society. I am sick to death of fucking stupid libertarians. If that's the way they want to live, they should move to Somalia. It's their paradise. But they're too fucking cowardly and addicted to the way of life our SOCIETY provides FOR them.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)CabCurious
(954 posts)He wants that worldview and won't budget until he's matured.