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liberalmuse.com

(58 posts)
Wed Jan 4, 2012, 10:46 PM Jan 2012

Ron Paul.

He's leaving me rather baffled. I don't know what to think. Is he evil, or is he awesome?

Will someone please set me straight?

(edit)

Yes, I am serious. I ask this from a state of total ignorance as to Ron Paul, apart from a couple articles and Wikipedia.

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Ron Paul. (Original Post) liberalmuse.com Jan 2012 OP
Seriously? PeaceNikki Jan 2012 #1
Yes, and here's why: liberalmuse.com Jan 2012 #8
No, he does not support gay marriage. He supports criminalizing being gay. TheWraith Jan 2012 #9
I plead ignorance. liberalmuse.com Jan 2012 #15
the way I read it SixthSense Jan 2012 #24
Supporting DOMA in 2012 will never be considered 'pro-gay' PeaceNikki Jan 2012 #27
"Do not allow the [AIDS] patient to eat in a restaurant." TheWraith Jan 2012 #34
ack. PeaceNikki Jan 2012 #16
Surely you jest. Ron Paul wants sufrommich Jan 2012 #17
He is certainly not either an environmentalist or a gay marriage advocate according to his own LeftishBrit Jan 2012 #39
you posted a link a while back with a lot of good material on Ron Paul's issues think Jan 2012 #36
Thanks, there was nothing good on TV tonight. stevedeshazer Jan 2012 #2
. Lefta Dissenter Jan 2012 #10
Awesomely evil? TwilightGardener Jan 2012 #3
Neither ... he is insane. JoePhilly Jan 2012 #4
He is awesome in that he really is anti-war and anti-drug war mdmc Jan 2012 #5
Even his position on those is totally idiotic. PeaceNikki Jan 2012 #14
Since you asked: Ron Paul is pretty explicit that he would pardon all non violent drug offenders but think Jan 2012 #21
From federal, state and county prisons and jails? PeaceNikki Jan 2012 #23
The drug war is a failure and any president that dared could work to dismantle it but think Jan 2012 #29
You also have to have a plan, Paul has none. He has sound bytes that make no sense when dissected. PeaceNikki Jan 2012 #30
His plan is to push for the end of federal drug laws and let states handle it like alcohol think Jan 2012 #35
And when the states handle it like alcohol we're still stuck with prohibition Saving Hawaii Jan 2012 #40
I'm not that complacent but understand your skepticism. Still it is the Fed that is pushing think Jan 2012 #46
thanks for the replies mdmc Jan 2012 #44
cheers think Jan 2012 #47
kick mdmc Jan 2012 #48
homophobic, racist, sexist, nutcase Terra Alta Jan 2012 #6
He is a racist asshole... Ohio Joe Jan 2012 #7
Well, that's pretty definitive. liberalmuse.com Jan 2012 #11
Whatever he is, awesome he isn't. The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2012 #12
he is a total kook. provis99 Jan 2012 #13
Did you know the nazis were socialists? Yep. Yep. Yep. Cerridwen Jan 2012 #18
He is a bigot. And that's all you need to know... Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2012 #19
Well, let me think... Spazito Jan 2012 #20
That was easy. liberalmuse.com Jan 2012 #22
Fuck that racist, Ron Paul. BootinUp Jan 2012 #25
Evil, and crazy Motown_Johnny Jan 2012 #26
Geesh Du can be an unkind place! Texasgal Jan 2012 #28
Did you take it as a serious post/question? DURHAM D Jan 2012 #32
I did. Texasgal Jan 2012 #33
There are enough people who are taken in by Ron Paul's flirtation with their curiosity, Quantess Jan 2012 #45
He is the evil Pied Piper unionworks Jan 2012 #31
Utterly evil LeftishBrit Jan 2012 #37
Where have you been hidding? icymist Jan 2012 #38
I think he just wants to be a 76 year old kingmaker sfpcjock Jan 2012 #41
No support for economic Darwinists. HughBeaumont Jan 2012 #42
Ron Paul is awesome until you actually listen to what he has to say, chrisa Jan 2012 #43

liberalmuse.com

(58 posts)
8. Yes, and here's why:
Wed Jan 4, 2012, 10:50 PM
Jan 2012

A) General non-intervention policy when it comes to war
B) Supports gay marriage
C) As quoted from Wikipedia: "As a free-market environmentalist, Paul sees polluters as aggressors who should not be granted immunity or otherwise insulated from accountability."

TheWraith

(24,331 posts)
9. No, he does not support gay marriage. He supports criminalizing being gay.
Wed Jan 4, 2012, 10:51 PM
Jan 2012

He also supports eliminating virtually all environmental regulations, as these would interfere with property rights.

You're either grossly misinformed, or trying to misinform others.

 

SixthSense

(829 posts)
24. the way I read it
Wed Jan 4, 2012, 11:04 PM
Jan 2012

is that he doesn't want the question to be a federal one and that each state should decide the question on its own

So one person can interpret that as being pro-gay (if they're in a state that would legalize gay marriage) and another can interpret it as being anti-gay (if they're in a state that wouldn't) and both will be sort of correct and sort of incorrect.

Still, it's worlds better than the anti-gay jihad the rest of them would bring into office.

TheWraith

(24,331 posts)
34. "Do not allow the [AIDS] patient to eat in a restaurant."
Wed Jan 4, 2012, 11:44 PM
Jan 2012

"Do not allow the [AIDS] patient to drive or operate machinery due to mental impairment."

"Researchers admitted that they had been lying about the incidence of heterosexual AIDS to increase funding for homosexual programs."

"The ACT-UP slogan is "Silence = Death." But shouldn't it be "SODOMY = Death"?"

"Those who don't commit sodomy, get blood transfusions, or swap needles are virtually assured of not getting AIDS unless they are deliberately infected by a malicious gay."

"Homosexuals, not to speak of the rest of society, were far better off when social pressure forced them to hide their activities."

"If you heard a certain behavior of yours caused a deadly disease, wouldn't you immediately cease & desist? Well, gays in San Francisco do not obey the dictates of good sense. They have stopped practicing "safe sex." The rate of AIDS infection is on the increase again. From the gay point of view, the reasons seem quite sensible.

First, these men don't really see a reason to live past their fifties. They are not married, they have no children, and their lives are centered on new sexual partners. These conditions do not make one's older years the happiest.

Second, because sex is the center of their lives, they want it to be as pleasurable as possible, which means unprotected sex.

Third, they enjoy the attention & pity that comes with being sick. Put it all together, and you've got another wave of AIDS infections, that you, dear taxpayer, will be asked to pay for."

All direct quotes from Ron Paul's newsletters.

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
17. Surely you jest. Ron Paul wants
Wed Jan 4, 2012, 10:56 PM
Jan 2012

to dismantle the EPA, and he most certainly does not support gay marriage .Are you cool with his racist beliefs?

LeftishBrit

(41,203 posts)
39. He is certainly not either an environmentalist or a gay marriage advocate according to his own
Thu Jan 5, 2012, 06:15 AM
Jan 2012

writings. He believes in states rights, so probably thinks that gay marriage should be left up to the states not the federal government; but that doesn't mean he favours it.

He DOES advocate an end to the drug war, and he was against the Iraq war (not out of pacifism but out of isolationism and xenophobia, but still he was against the war); but in every other way he's a monster.

 

think

(11,641 posts)
36. you posted a link a while back with a lot of good material on Ron Paul's issues
Thu Jan 5, 2012, 12:01 AM
Jan 2012

Maybe you could re-post it if you have it handy?

mdmc

(29,048 posts)
5. He is awesome in that he really is anti-war and anti-drug war
Wed Jan 4, 2012, 10:48 PM
Jan 2012

I'm a liberal and love him for these two stances.
Everything else is shiite..

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
14. Even his position on those is totally idiotic.
Wed Jan 4, 2012, 10:55 PM
Jan 2012

Sure, he opposes military intervention in foreign wars, but not out of a sense of decency or any position of pacifism. He wants to withdraw from the UN. Including humanitarian and peacekeeping operations. Foreign aid would disappear, and if you think "unstable" regions are bad now, imagine what they would be like with the double-edged sword of multinational (read: US) corporate interests moving unchecked throughout the developing world AND an absence of monitored unilateral military involvement in those regions. Paul's position isn't one of altruism; it's one of isolationism. Not that I'm an advocate of First World military involvement in foreign problems, but look at what isolationism has netted in the past.

And what would Paul do to end the war on drugs? What could he do as POTUS? Sure he could try to get DoJ to back off of federal busts while he was in the pretend office in his head, but what could he do about state and local laws? Oh right, STATE'S RIGHTS!! LIBERTY!! ATLAS SHRUGGED!!

 

think

(11,641 posts)
21. Since you asked: Ron Paul is pretty explicit that he would pardon all non violent drug offenders but
Wed Jan 4, 2012, 11:01 PM
Jan 2012

you won't hear that mentioned on the MSM too often:



PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
23. From federal, state and county prisons and jails?
Wed Jan 4, 2012, 11:04 PM
Jan 2012

For serious? cool.

Even if he did and could, how does that end the drug war? Will he perpetually pardon all new convictions as they occur? Seems like a productive presidency.

 

think

(11,641 posts)
29. The drug war is a failure and any president that dared could work to dismantle it but
Wed Jan 4, 2012, 11:15 PM
Jan 2012

you have to want to.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
30. You also have to have a plan, Paul has none. He has sound bytes that make no sense when dissected.
Wed Jan 4, 2012, 11:19 PM
Jan 2012

ANTI-WAR!! LIBERTY! CONSTITUTION! END THE DRUG WAR! NWO! FLOURIDE! MAGIC OF THE MARKET! SELECT QUOTES OF THOMAS JEFFERSON!! FREEDOM!!

 

think

(11,641 posts)
35. His plan is to push for the end of federal drug laws and let states handle it like alcohol
Wed Jan 4, 2012, 11:46 PM
Jan 2012

Here is a quick clip if you care of about 60 seconds of recent interview in regards to your questions:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/04/ron-paul-war-on-drugs-prohibition_n_1183353.html

I would love to see Obama take a more aggressive stance on the war on drugs but respect that it would be politically difficult for him to support such policies for many reasons. Most importantly he didn't run on this issue so he has no responsibility to take the political heat of such a controversial issue while those that voted for him look to other issues to be addressed.

At the same time our prisons are over crowded and our police forces are being pushed to the limit to uphold laws against non violent citizens. While we continue to flush money down the drain on prohibition and incarcerating our citizens at record levels the politicians do nothing and it is a shame.





Saving Hawaii

(441 posts)
40. And when the states handle it like alcohol we're still stuck with prohibition
Thu Jan 5, 2012, 06:16 AM
Jan 2012

Nothing changes. Kids still sitting locked up for years because they grew the wrong kind of lettuce.

 

think

(11,641 posts)
46. I'm not that complacent but understand your skepticism. Still it is the Fed that is pushing
Thu Jan 5, 2012, 10:03 AM
Jan 2012

the criminalization of marijuana in states where they have voted to make pot legal for medical purposes. The war on drugs is a failed FEDERAL policy that is over riding the will of the people in those states. So it is obvious that in those states ending the war on drugs would help US citizens including kids from being incarcerated for smoking pot and doing drugs.

 

provis99

(13,062 posts)
13. he is a total kook.
Wed Jan 4, 2012, 10:54 PM
Jan 2012

he reminds me of anonymous libertarian advocates in the Internet; puerile 16-year olds with fantasies about government "force" and "freedom".

Cerridwen

(13,252 posts)
18. Did you know the nazis were socialists? Yep. Yep. Yep.
Wed Jan 4, 2012, 10:57 PM
Jan 2012

So they claimed.

Did you know the kkk delivered food baskets to people down on their luck? Yep. Yep.

That's how they recruited those who were so down anything appeared up.

Did you know there are some good lessons to be learned from reading parts of the Bible? Yep. Yep.

I suggest you start a search for ~false prophets~. Those lessons can be extrapolated to how confidence men run their cons. They tell you what you want to hear until they've got you hooked. Kinda like drug dealers handing out free samples...until you're hooked.

Yep. Yep.

Always read beyond the surface; beyond the facade and the facile. Judging a "book by its cover" is one of those things we've been warned about.

Yeppers.

Spazito

(50,165 posts)
20. Well, let me think...
Wed Jan 4, 2012, 10:58 PM
Jan 2012

other than being a racist, homophobic, antisemitic, misogynist, isolationist POS, he's the awesomest!

Texasgal

(17,040 posts)
33. I did.
Wed Jan 4, 2012, 11:34 PM
Jan 2012

I was hoping that a kind DU'er would set her straight.

Why wouldn't it be a serious question? I ask questions all of the time. I ask my fellow DU'ers advice lot.

Quantess

(27,630 posts)
45. There are enough people who are taken in by Ron Paul's flirtation with their curiosity,
Thu Jan 5, 2012, 09:52 AM
Jan 2012

that this is worth a serious discussion.

 

unionworks

(3,574 posts)
31. He is the evil Pied Piper
Wed Jan 4, 2012, 11:30 PM
Jan 2012

Leading the youngand gullible away from a democratic party that has alienatet them, promising to ed the war on drugs and much else when he and everyone else in the GOP knows this will never, ever happen least of all under a republican administration

LeftishBrit

(41,203 posts)
37. Utterly evil
Thu Jan 5, 2012, 06:10 AM
Jan 2012

I shall avoid material where there is dispute about whether he actually wrote it, and provide excerpts from his speech 'A Republic if You Can Keep It', which he keeps on his website:

'On welfare and public services):

'There was no welfare state in 1900. In the year 2000 we have a huge welfare state, which continues to grow each year...

The modern-day welfare state has steadily grown since the Great Depression of the 1930s. The federal government is now involved in providing health care, houses, unemployment benefits, education, food stamps to millions, plus all kinds of subsidies to every conceivable special-interest group. Welfare is now part of our culture, costing hundreds of billions of dollars every year. It is now thought to be a "right," something one is "entitled" to. Calling it an "entitlement" makes it sound proper and respectable and not based on theft. Anyone who has a need, desire, or demand and can get the politicians' attention will get what he wants, even though it may be at the expense of someone else. Today it is considered morally right and politically correct to promote the welfare state. Any suggestion otherwise is considered political suicide.

The acceptance of the welfare ethic and rejection of the work ethic as the accepted process for improving one's economic conditions are now ingrained in our political institutions. This process was started in earnest in the 1930s, received a big boast in the 1960s, and has continued a steady growth, even through the 1990s, despite some rhetoric in opposition. This public acceptance has occurred in spite of the fact that there is no evidence that welfare is a true help in assisting the needy. Its abject failure around the world where welfarism took the next step into socialism has even a worse record...

,,, Today, there's no serious effort to challenge welfare as a way of life, and its uncontrolled growth in the next economic downturn is to be expected. Too many citizens now believe they are "entitled" to monetary assistance from the government anytime they need it, and they expect it. Even in times of plenty, the direction has been to continue expanding education, welfare, and retirement benefits. No one asks where the government gets the money to finance the welfare state. Is it morally right to do so? Is it authorized in the Constitution? Does it help anyone in the long run? Who suffers from the policy? Until these questions are seriously asked and correctly answered, we cannot expect the march toward a pervasive welfare state to stop, and we can expect our liberties to be continuously compromised.'

(On healthcare):

....It is now accepted that people who need (medical) care are entitled to it as a right. This is a serious error in judgment.'

(On women's rights, gays and the general limits of his libertarianism)

'Probably the most significant change in attitude that occurred in the 20th Century was that with respect to life itself. Although abortion has been performed for hundreds if not thousands of years, it was rarely considered an acceptable and routine medical procedure without moral consequence. Since 1973 abortion in America has become routine and justified by a contorted understanding of the right to privacy. The difference between American's rejection of abortions at the beginning of the century, compared to today's casual acceptance, is like night and day. Although a vocal number of Americans express their disgust with abortion on demand, our legislative bodies and the courts claim that the procedure is a constitutionally protected right, disregarding all scientific evidence and legal precedents that recognize the unborn as a legal living entity deserving protection of the law. Ironically the greatest proponents of abortion are the same ones who advocate imprisonment for anyone who disturbs the natural habitat of a toad.

....The welfare system has mocked the concept of marriage in the name of political correctness, economic egalitarianism, and hetero-phobia.'

(On World War II)

'....Any academic discussion questioning the wisdom of our policies surrounding World War II is met with shrill accusations of anti-Semitism and Nazi lover. No one is even permitted without derision by the media, the university intellectuals, and the politicians to ask why the United States allied itself with the murdering Soviets and then turned over Eastern Europe to them...'


The only good thing about Ron Paul is that he might cause splits in his party. Oh, and that even he is probably not quite as bad as his repulsive son!

icymist

(15,888 posts)
38. Where have you been hidding?
Thu Jan 5, 2012, 06:13 AM
Jan 2012

Ron Paul is a snake in the grass, an old time racist and a huge homophobe. Read the above from the others. Any questions?

sfpcjock

(1,936 posts)
41. I think he just wants to be a 76 year old kingmaker
Thu Jan 5, 2012, 09:10 AM
Jan 2012

The guy is such a phony. Chris Wallace or someone asked him if "he saw himself in the Oval office." He just said, "not really." OMG, what are we listening to his libertarian bullshit for then?

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
42. No support for economic Darwinists.
Thu Jan 5, 2012, 09:18 AM
Jan 2012

"Magic of the Market", my ASS. Ask the middle/working/poor classes what that "magic" Friedman crapcake has done to their disposable income.

And that's the LEAST loathsome of his "states rights" agenda.

chrisa

(4,524 posts)
43. Ron Paul is awesome until you actually listen to what he has to say,
Thu Jan 5, 2012, 09:24 AM
Jan 2012

i.e., what he plans to do as President, how he feels about certain things. Then you realize that he's just a delusional right-wing nutcase and racist who appeals to the crowd that is obsessed with their guns, believes in New World Order or anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, and listen to Alex Jones every night.

He's an unhinged lunatic. His son must not be any better, as the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

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