General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCorrea says Assange allegations 'not crimes' in 95 percent of the world
Updated Monday, August 27, 2012 11:13 am TWN, AFP
LONDON -- Correa told the broadsheet that the sex crime allegations against the WikiLeaks founder were not a crime in Latin America and had played no part in Quito's decision to grant Assange asylum ...
The crimes that Assange is accused of, they would not be crimes in 90 to 95 percent of the planet, Correa told The Sunday Times.
Not to use a condom in an act between a couple, this is not a crime in Latin America ...
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/business/asia/australia/2012/08/27/352337/Correa-says.htm
It's still more of the usual coordinated macho bullshit from the Assangists, easily debunked as usual
... The offences of which he is accused and in respect of which his surrender is sought are alleged to have been committed in Stockholm against two women in August 2010. They include sexual molestation and, in one case, rape ...
The Supreme Court
Easter Term
<2012> UKSC 22
On appeal from: <2011> EWHC Admin 2849
JUDGMENT
Assange (Appellant) v The Swedish Prosecution Authority (Respondent)
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
frazzled
(18,402 posts)95% of the world doesn't give a flying f*ck about Julian Assange, and I am among that vast majority. I really don't want to see any more of these rape/bad sex-apology posts, or their wholly unmerited hero worship, littering the Latest page.
He can rot in the Ecuadorean Embassy for the rest of his life, as far as I'm concerned. And these types of posts--from impeccable sources such as "China Post"--should find their own embassy to hide out in.
struggle4progress
(118,273 posts)News24 or the Mail or the Telegraph? Lots of outlets are reporting it. What's unfortunate is the number of people who have been saying this: George Galloway says it; Craig Murray says it; the Assangists have been making the claim month after month for nearly two years
I don't ever remember my side of the political spectrum being so obstinently unwilling to look up and read basic documents to learn basic facts, nor do I ever remember my side of the political spectrum being so quick to prejudge an issue best left to the courts
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/uk-retreats-on-assange-embassy-threat/story-e6frg6so-1226458417440
http://www.news24.com/World/News/Ecuadorian-president-defends-Assange-20120826
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2193775/Rafael-Correa-President-Ecuador-claims-sharing-bed-lead-rape-defends-Julian-Assange.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/9500226/Julian-Assange-case-President-of-Ecuador-says-sexual-allegations-would-not-be-a-crime-in-other-countries.html
frazzled
(18,402 posts)And the rest of those papers are all rags.
The law in Sweden is the law in Sweden. Correa should not be talking: the guy who had an entire independent television station closed down for showing ... "The Simpsons." And who has put half the journalists in Ecuador in jail or brought million-dollar libel suits against them. The state itself is becoming the sole media outlet permitted. http://knight.stanford.edu/talks-events/2012/ecuadoran-journalists-pushed-into-the-political-ring/
roody
(10,849 posts)don't click on it.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)What an idiotic response. You just want to talk amongst yourselves?
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)He caused an avalanche of revealing information that our government didn't want us to know about.
A member since 2002, and you don't see the value of what this man has done? I don't really understand.
Bodhi BloodWave
(2,346 posts)Gregorian
(23,867 posts)pa28
(6,145 posts)We save shelf space for real news and discussion.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)similar circumstances anywhere in the world.
I'd be curious to see someone produce a link to a single rape conviction in a case like this.
struggle4progress
(118,273 posts)for criminal processing
girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)to be tortured, imprisoned or murdered by our corrupt government.
struggle4progress
(118,273 posts)girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)as you are of sounding like a doofus.
struggle4progress
(118,273 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)Thanks for confirming that.
struggle4progress
(118,273 posts)He might be innocent for all I know. I have no need to take a stand one way or the other on the matter
But Assange has lost his appeal in Swedish court, and he has lost his multiple appeals in the UK courts. He has declined to appeal to the ECHR, electing instead to jump bail. So let him go to Sweden
If your view of the material facts is correct, he should have no trouble resolving the matter quickly there
leveymg
(36,418 posts)struggle4progress
(118,273 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)http://bangordailynews.com/2012/07/28/news/lewiston-auburn/man-who-raped-sleeping-friend-gets-6-years-in-prison/
http://www.ncdsv.org/images/maritalrapecaseisraritycourt.pdf
That wasn't exactly an arduous task.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)If her allegations are true that he penetrated her while she was asleep, then it was rape. If he penetrated her without the condom she insisted on, it was rape.
Sometimes the evidence in a case just comes to "he said vs. she said": and there is still a conviction. But in this case, Assange's already acknowledged having sex with her. So that part's not even an issue.
You need to educate yourself.
From the California Women's center:
http://www.justdatenow.org/dating-abuse-help/rape-resource-page/identifying-acknowleding-rape
Rape is defined differently in every state, but generally any non-consensual or forced intercourse is considered rape. This includes rape by coercion, intimidation, rape based off of an actual or perceived fear or threat, and actual force. If a victim is unable to give consent because they are intoxicated or asleep, that is rape as well.
Just a random case:
http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/jhamlin/3925/Readings/Force.html
The M.T.S. case involved an act of sexual intercourse between a 17-year-old male accused and a 15-year-old female victim. The accused was a house guest in the home of the victim's mother. The victim testified that one night she awoke to find the accused engaged in an act of sexual intercourse with her. She stated that she immediately slapped him and told him to "get off." The victim testified that earlier in the evening, the accused had made several comments to her regarding a "surprise visit" which she dismissed as a joke. She also said that on one occasion during the night, she talked with the accused in the upstairs hallway on a trip to the bathroom.(n17)
The accused contended that he and the victim had previously engaged in "kissing and necking" and had discussed having sexual intercourse. He stated that the victim had, on a number of occasions, encouraged him to make a surprise visit to her room. He stated that on the night in question, he and the victim met in the hallway, and proceeded to her bedroom, where they undressed and engaged in "heavy kissing" before he penetrated her. He conceded that after penetration, the victim became upset and told him to get off of her. He immediately complied.(n18)
At a juvenile proceeding, the trial court concluded as a factual finding that although the victim had consented to the "kissing and heavy petting," she did not consent to the actual act of intercourse. The court specifically concluded that the victim had not been sleeping when penetrated,(n19) but made no specific finding regarding whether the accused reasonably believed the victim consented. The trial judge concluded that the only force required for commission of the offense was "an act of sexual penetration."(n20) On appeal, the New Jersey Superior Court reversed, holding that the record was devoid of any evidence of force and specifically rejecting the trial judge's interpretation of force. The court stated such an interpretation would render the term "meaningless." n21)
The Supreme Court of New Jersey reversed the judgment of the Superior Court and reinstated the disposition of the trial court.(n22) . . . Noting that any unauthorized touching constitutes a battery, the court concluded that the force or coercion required by the rape statute was grounded in the unauthorized nature of the penetration.(n24) The court contended that the proper focus for the factfinder was whether the victim had either freely given permission for the act or the accused had a reasonable belief that the victim gave permission. The court ruled that the burden of proving the act of penetration and the nonconsensual nature of the act remained on the prosecution.(n25)
The New Jersey Supreme Court appears to hold that all acts of intercourse are presumptively nonconsensual. The trial judge's factual findings focused only on the victim's subjective state of mind, not on the accused's reasonable belief there had been consent.(n26) Hence, the M.T.S case creates criminal culpability when a victim, in the recesses of her mind and without regard to any manifestation of lack of consent, fails to actually consent.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Gee, he's only the president of Equador, who has a small army of attorneys and diplomats working for him that can tell him about the details of this case, and thus help him make the decision he made - to grant asylum to Julian Assange.
If Assange hadn't formed Wikileaks or broadcast all those embarrassing and incriminating things about the U.S. and other nations, do you really think the UK, Sweden and the US would give half a shit about a couple of questionable he-said-she-said accusations? Didn't think so.
They, and you, are using those two women as political footballs.
struggle4progress
(118,273 posts)for criminal processing
A Swedish court ordered the arrest of Mr Assange; he appealed, through his lawyers, and lost. The Swedish then took out a warrant on him. Three levels of UK courts have upheld the warrant. Mr Assange is now wanted in Sweden, so that the justice system there can take him into custody and determine whether he should be brought to trial. I feel quite confident that the Swedish system can make a better determination of the facts of the case, and the import of those facts, than you or I or Mr Correa, none of whom have examined the evidence
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)In fact, I hope your employers pay you well for overtime - you've been working awfully hard here lately.
struggle4progress
(118,273 posts)He might be innocent for all I know. I have no need to take a stand one way or the other on the matter
But Assange has lost his appeal in Swedish court, and he has lost his multiple appeals in the UK courts. He has declined to appeal to the ECHR, electing instead to jump bail. So let him go to Sweden
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)When I was posting about the false rape charges against the Duke students, people here were also accusing me of having a vested interest in the situation, which was laughable.
What I've seen in both cases are DUers who are letting the politics of the situation color their views of the case. And in both situations I've seen too much prejudging before a case comes to trial.
Maybe Assange will turn out to be just as innocent as the Duke students. But he's decided, for some inexplicable reason, that he's more likely to be extradited to the US from Sweden than from the UK, although both have extradition agreements with the US. Or maybe he just doesn't want to be tried at all. I guess the good part about him being in the Embassy is that, in case he is guilty, he'll have access to fewer women there.
Otherwise, he should allow himself to be extradited to Sweden, where he will most likely be found innocent: acquaintance rape, as everyone knows, is difficult to prove. Both Sweden and the UK would then have to approve an extradition to the US, which is extremely unlikely (if an extradition request ever even happened -- which is also unlikely, since there is no US law that would apply.)
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)arguments get ignored.
Are Sweden and the UK working this hard to get other rapists to the countries they committed their crimes in or is it just this one? I ask because absolutely everyone knows the answer. Of course they aren't.
The fact that the US pretends like we don't want him means absolutely nothing. The Swedish government has renditioned people for us before and we certainly have no moral qualms about disappearing people ourselves if they won't. Extradition doesn't factor into it. Unless of course y'all are willing to deny rendition happened.
I personally think he probably did it and needs to spend some time in jail if convincted. What I don't think he deserves is to be kidnapped and tortured without a trial, which is what will happen if he's dumb enough to go to Sweden.
jobycom
(49,038 posts)One woman told him she would only have sex with him if he wore a condom. He wore a condom, then when she went to sleep, he started having sex without one. The other woman tried to stop him from having sex, he violently held her down, and when she finally consented if he wore a condom, he fixed the condom so it would break.
If Todd Akin or Paul Ryan or Joe the Plumber were accused of either of those people here would be screaming for his torture and execution, and when their lawyer said it wasn't a crime in 95% of the world, people here would want the lawyer tortured, too.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)pnwmom
(108,973 posts)to insult people you disagree with than to specifically show how they are wrong.
Robb
(39,665 posts)I would not be surprised if Correa's right.
Edited to clarify: WRT Latin America.