POLL: Would Clinton have won if hand-marked paper ballots been used nationwide?

[lostnfound]

And will 2020 get stolen again due to absence of hand-marked paper ballots?

Put another way, in your OPINION, was it stolen in 2016, and will it be stolen again in 2020, via manipulation of electronic voting systems) central tabulators?

(You can include manipulation of electronic voter rolls as well.)

16 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes/Yes. STOLEN: Yes in 2016, yes in 2020
	14 (88%)
	No/No. NOT stolen: not in 2016, not in 2020
	2 (13%)
	Yes/No. Stolen THEN, but okay NOW: YES in 2016, not in 2020
	0 (0%)
	No/Yes. Did not affect 2016 outcome but will steal in 2020.
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[beachbum bob]

1. nope, she would have won if Jill stein voters had done the right thing though

[JI7]

2. the problem is often that people who should/would have voted did not do so

because of things that republicans do to make it tougher to vote including just misleading/lying.

that was more likely the bigger issue in 2004 presidential race and in Georgia Senate race last year. so the paper ballots would not have made a difference when it comes to those things.

there is still a lot we need to know about what happened in 2016 and while i was less likely to believe votes were changed themselves earlier on , the more we learn the less it seems impossible.

there were many other problems outside of what you mention in 2016 also such as the russian trolls spreading fake shit and comey .

[watoos]

3. She lost because of Russia

and because people didn't vote for president.

[BlueTsunami2018]

4. Yes. Without a doubt.

We’ve been getting shafted by electronic voting machines since 2000. Legitimate President Obama won by too much for them to steal it but the exit polls were still off.

[Thunderbeast]

5. Russia did NOT break in to election systems

to "just look around". That narrative is just not credible. I believe (though no hard evidence has seen the light) that tabulation systems were manipulated. I also believe that the intelligence community and both parties are aware of this. The consequences of exposing this fraud, in the current political climate, WOULD be the end of democracy.

Our Constitution is a great framework for governance. It did not, however, anticipate the current level of corruption and malfeasance.

[lostnfound]

7. Agreed, thank you. But what do you mean by "the consequences..."?

I’ve suspected they’d hide it, but for what reason? “would be the end of democracy”? How?

[Kurt V.]

6. comey

[anarch]

8. this poll has made me realize that I think of voting kind of like I do recycling

in that it's crucial that everyone do it, but positive change won't happen if the "powers that be" don't reinforce the will and intent of the people (in this case, those "ptb" being the people who count the votes/impose and control the means by which they are counted in the one case, and the analogous corporate interests that actually cause the most damage to the environment as opposed to individuals using plastic and forgetting to separate their refuse occasionally...which, huh, come to think of it at the end of the day are exactly the same bunch of people...the uber-wealthy whose interests our entire fucking global social order is set up to serve. Damn.)

[lostnfound]

9. Thanks for the votes everyone. Obvious bias built in but still, the question is...

What the hell can we do about it? Feels like a many-headed hydra.

Reading about Georgia the other day in a Jennifer Cohn article made me want to throw up.
Remote access, memory card “glitches”, patches, very large disparity between paper and electronic votes, Russian ambassador Kislyak visiting Georgia’s voting software center (haha haha), felons experienced with “sophisticated techniques” managing the companies that produce the proprietary software...voters magically registered in the wrong district...