In case you were still wondering about the students in the college admissions scam...

[Hekate]

A student three years into a Georgetown University degree is being expelled and all his college credits nullified. The article notes he is the first -- in other words, expect many more. He does have a lawyer -- all he's really asking for is to be allowed to keep his credits for work done, but the university says no deal. His father is facing 18 months in prison after pleading guilty in a federal court in Boston.

Los Angeles Times, May 16, 2019, front page
Student fights ouster over college scam
Adam Semprevivo says he knew nothing of the bribe his father admits paying to get him into Georgetown.

[matt819]

1. If he's being truthful

he really does have a point.

If he didn't know that his parents secured his admission illegally, then penalizing him is kind of pointless. He's done the work. He's got good grades. Why should they take that away from him? Let's face it, now that his name is out there, it's more than likely that he'll be added to any number of lists that will kick him out for job consideration. A little like Trump, he'll always have an asterisk after his name. But taking his credits away is wrong.

Now, if he's lying about not knowing, then by all means strip those credits.

[zipplewrath]

3. Sins of the Father

I tend to agree. It was one of the first things I thought of when I heard these stories. The kids that knew nothing are really going to suffer. Those that don't get expelled may carry a reputation for years of not being worthy somehow.

[stopbush]

12. Exactly. The parents engaged in fraud.

If they had embezzled money and bought their kid a car with the embezzled funds the car would be seized, even if the kid put in the work to become a good driver.

What message would it send to parents if their kid got to keep his college credits when those credits were secured via fraud? Some parents would weigh the consequences and still roll the dice, safe in the knowledge that their fraud wouldn’t impact their kid’s ill-gotten gains.

[exboyfil]

18. That analogy doesn't hold

A better one would be using the stolen funds for an investment which has appreciated. Restitution of the original funds is a given, but what about the rest of the investment?

It is no picnic transferring credits either. He will lose the reputation of Georgetown in the transfer since the school awarding the degree is the important one anyway. Chances are many of the credits will not apply towards the new degree.

[Progressive Law]

42. A more on-point analogy would be..

The parents embezzled money, used the money to buy the kid a car, and the kid used his driving skills to drive the car to 1st place in a racing competition..

Taking the car way sounds reasonable. But taking the trophy away too?

[stopbush]

44. Sure. Take away the trophy as well.

Did you see the Kentucky Derby this year? Small infractions have big consequences. Big infractions lead to longterm consequences.

[Progressive Law]

45. Just because someone applies an infraction, doesn't mean it's fair or legal.

[malaise]

6. How did he not know that he didn't have the required matriculation requirements?

I'd expel every last one of them

[NewJeffCT]

26. College admissions are not an exact science

maybe the kid thought he got in because of a great essay or fantastic interview, or maybe a wonderful teacher recommendation?

A kid at my daughter's school got into Columbia as a "reach" to "far reach" school and his parents certainly don't have the money to buy his way into an Ivy League school. They're also not legacies, either. His father (a high school teacher in another town) thinks it was his answers to the Columbia specific questions on the application because his SAT and GPA were below the average for Columbia (the infamous scattergram had Columbia listed as at the very end of the "Reach" category for him)

Now, according to this website below, the average SAT score for Georgetown is 1435 on a scale of 1600.What if the kid got a 1400? He's still above the 25th percentile, but is below the average. How about 1370? When does the kid get suspicious?

https://www.prepscholar.com/sat/s/colleges/Georgetown-SAT-scores-GPA

[malaise]

43. I hear you but truth be told

I'm tired of these parents who are so involved in their college age children's lives.
Our parents didn't really get involved in our post high school decision-making. Both my brother and I did what we wanted as opposed to suggestions from mostly dad. Mom insisted that we did what we wanted and not what dad wanted so neither my brother nor I studied law.

On more than one occasion I had to tell parents they were not invited to the matriculation exercises that were for their children. I had parents calling me about their collage age children's assignments. It's beyond crazy.

[NewJeffCT]

46. It's a lot more competitive now

than it was even 5 or 10 years ago. The head of the guidance office at my daughter's high school said that they went back and looked at profiles of students that got into Ivy League and similar schools 10 years ago and many would not even be competitive for those schools anymore.

[Fresh_Start]

9. He has a statement somewhere which said he didn't sign the application

....so if he showed up for classes after never having applied...then he was part of the scam.

[MH1]

10. Yeah, this is kind of tough. I think essentially they are taking from him without proof.

If they have proof that he was in on the scam, by all means punish him.

Taking away his right to future attendance at that school makes sense in any case, if his acceptance was gotten dishonestly even if not by him. But in that case, without proof of wrongdoing on the student's part, they should enable his transfer to a less competitive school without penalty to his transcript.

I think unjustly penalizing the student just creates a cynical person who will game the system every chance they get in the future, because after all, may as well do the crime if you're going to take the punishment any way. Just do a better job and don't get caught like your parents did.

[atreides1]

13. Okay

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7035871/Student-father-paid-400-000-bribe-Georgetown-sues-college.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=1490


The student said the records he provided to the school proved he had experience in basketball, but not tennis.

Stephen Semprevivo asked his son to claim he had played competitive tennis all through high school in order for him to get into the college, it is alleged.

He then claimed he was Academic All American in tennis and basketball and added he belonged to the Nike Federation All Academic Athletic Team.

It would appear that he knew more then he's willing to admit!!!

[ProudLib72]

37. Here's the kicker

Adam Semprevivo, who had played basketball instead, put the blame on college officials who did not catch his bogus application.

The kid blames Georgetown for not catching his lie. This sounds like the Rump's logic: "It's Obama's fault for doing nothing about Russians helping me win the election."

[rampartc]

17. however the kids got in

some were acceoted and obviously capable of doing the work. the colleges need to clean up their act, but i don't see much advantage to punishing students who did pay their tuition.

[unblock]

20. Simplest is to treat a fraudulent application as a fraudulent application

Take everything away from the student who signed and presented and got in based on a fraudulent application.

If the student wants to claim they were in the dark, that still doesn't justify them signing or not validating their own application. If they can prove something incredible, like they signed a valid application but the parents switched it and submitted a fraudulent one, maybe they have a case.

Short of that, tough. It may be a sucky life lesson, but too bad.

If they really learned the stuff, they should be able to test out of it easily anyway

[X_Digger]

28. If his father had stolen a car and he knew nothing about it, should he be able to keep it?

I mean, he didn't speed, he kept it clean, he stopped at all crosswalks..

Some other well-deserving kid may not have gotten in because of this kid's father.

Tough shit for them, eh?

[we can do it]

2. I'd rather see them paying a deserving students tuition and board.

[Hekate]

5. In the earlier days of the scandal, stories were in every section of the LA Times. One sportswriter

...is also a coach to kids very much in need of scholarships so they can be the first in their family to go to college. One of the girls asked him: "So, does this mean that is a spot in the team I won't be able to get?" His answer: "That is exactly what this means."

The Times and its writers have not forgotten.

[Lochloosa]

4. I'm torn on this. It's hard for me to believe they did not know.

[Hekate]

7. It's going to have to be case by case, though the colleges' opening gambit may be to expel them all

...and see who fights back. Sorry to be cynical here, but these youngsters can call the family lawyer -- if any money remains after paying the parental legal fees.

[fescuerescue]

14. It's plausible

Student thinks he's super smart and doesn't question his easy success, when it reality it's been mom and dad and the school paving the way with payments and receiving payments.

[ripcord]

32. Apparently he had over a 4.0 GPA in high school

He had also carried over a 3.0 at Georgetown, is is entirely possible he believed he got in on merit if it is determined he didn't have any knowledge of his father's actions.

[customerserviceguy]

16. Did he pose

for pictures of him in sports gear that could then be Photoshopped into a fake athletic picture? That would be an indication that he knew (or should have known) that it was a scam.

[defacto7]

8. Just let the student work it off, cafeteria duty, janitorial service

tutoring, library duty, just like real people do.

[fescuerescue]

11. I like to see the colleges held accountable.

I think most of the blame lies with the bribers. Students should pay. Parents should pay. Funny how the colleges are escaping punishment.

[Hekate]

15. By this time all the athletic coaches and deans who participated have been fired...

...and are looking at prosecution themselves. They are unemployable now.

The "punishment" for the colleges is loss of reputation, without which they are nothing. It's deadly serious. You want to attract research fellows to your departments, and Nobel Prize winners to your faculty. Hard to do that when your academic reputation has been dragged through the mud. Also the colleges will shortly be facing lawsuits themselves from expelled students, and possibly others.

As I mentioned, the Los Angeles Times has been covering the scandal assiduously. University of Southern California has some fine research programs, last I heard, but has been embroiled in so many scandals these past few years that this one is just the icing on the cake. It may have already regained its old moniker of University of Spoiled Children.

[Backseat Driver]

19. It's time these entitled young adults stood on their own two feet.

There were reasons the parent(s) thought they needed to bribe the admissions folks to accept their oh-so-special offspring. If the students' parent(s) perpetrated the crime, and the student's credits are pulled despite having had good grades, no one will be able to erase the knowledge or command of the coursework for which grades were conveyed. Let that student pay their own earnest funds to then "test out" of those courses that were DQ'd from the transcript that assessed GPA. Just as when Daddy gets fired for cause the whole family suffers some sort of setback due to loss of income, that kid needs to learn how to overcome some of these "life's not fair" obstacles to a goal without cheating on his behalf or by using fast money. Isn't there some meme about kids learning what they live.

[MineralMan]

21. I'm torn about this.

On one hand, the student got into the school on false pretenses, whether the student knew about the fraud or not.

If the student knew, then I'm fine with expulsion.

If not, though, I'd take a close look at how they were doing in their studies. I'd also look to see if they were doing their own work, studying, and earning their marks on their own. I'd talk to some of their instructors and professors and have a long, probing conversation with the student. If the students were making it on their own, then I'd leave them alone and let them continue. I'm not one for punishing people for other people's bad acts.

[genxlib]

22. Lets be honest here

Georgetown is not seeking justice. They just want to distance themselves from this debacle in every way possible. They don’t want any of these students carrying any credits or degrees that ties back to them.

[EveHammond13]

25. yep. the dirty little open secret

[mopinko]

23. imho, all these students are guilty of one thing-

not being able to get their own asses accepted to college.
this whole thing leaves me shaking my head.
all my 5 kids went to college at least for a little while, and the only thing i ever did was give them a copy of the tax returns.
my momma never held my hand, either.

who the hell are these people still holding each other's hand and pretending their are ready for college?

[EveHammond13]

24. he took someone else's spot, and that person also has zero credits from Georgetown

[X_Digger]

29. +1 n/t

[Tipperary]

27. If this guy is the one that supposedly was going

to be on the tennis team, I’m thinking he knew about it.

[Hekate]

33. One? There are dozens to sort out. nt

[Tipperary]

36. Lol, true.

I heard of one student whose father paid 400 grand for the son. Supposed to be on the tennis team.

[Mike Nelson]

30. I would be willing to look at...

… each student's case, but I think most of them knew... if they did the work, they have background for a community college or state college - and they will advance with good grades and hard work, from there. Maybe they can transfer into another ivy league school, if they are wealthy. I saved al my work in hard copies and computer... they can do the work over, honestly, and feel much better about themselves.

[Hekate]

34. There you go. nt

[mr_lebowski]

31. If you honestly (otherwise) earned the credits, you should keep the credits, IMHO

Expulsion is fair/fine by me, but if you put in the work and earned the grades, IMHO, the student should be able to transfer the credits towards graduation elsewhere ... I mean, unless they can be shown to be the instigators of the acceptance scam in their own particular case, that might be different.

AFA the admission itself goes, 17-year olds are very likely to have believed their rich parents were just 'doing things like they're done in the real world'. I sure as hell wouldn't have known different, myself. Then again, there was no internet in the 1980's lol ...

[RockRaven]

35. One does not get to keep the benefits from an associate's fraud merely because one was unaware

that said fraud had been committed. Well, under normal circumstances anyway. In GOP/Trump's America, perhaps that is considered the norm or ideal...

Parents do all sorts of things that hurt their children, and this is just one such case. It sucks for that guy, but his father is the one who did him dirty, not Georgetown.

I think it is an important principle, in general, that one does not get to keep the proceeds of other people's crimes, and I don't see a reason to make an exception in this case.

[Captain Stern]

38. Well said.

I think it is an important principle, in general, that one does not get to keep the proceeds of other people's crimes, and I don't see a reason to make an exception in this case.

That's pretty much it, there.

If somebody steals something, then gives it to me as a gift, and the crime is discovered and the real owner of the item wants it back....I don't get to keep it. It wouldn't matter that I didn't know the item was stolen.

The guy should lose the credits. I appreciate the work that he did to 'earn' those credits, but he shouldn't have been there to begin with.

If he actually didn't know about the scam, I wonder if he'd have a reasonable chance of recovering money for his time in a lawsuit against his parents.

[Midnightwalk]

39. Expulsion yes removing credits no

The fraud involved admission and not directly earning the credits. If the student was involved in the fraud arrest him too.

The analogy that’s closest to me is resume fraud. You will get fired. You lose the right to sue. As far as I know you don’t have to pay back the salary you earned.

Others compare it to stealing a car. Same deal. You lose the car, you go to jail, you have to pay restitution. You don’t have to pay back money you earned driving the stolen car to work.

How many years back can universities go back in deciding to remove credits? Can they revoke degrees? Academic fraud would be reasons for that not admission fraud.

It galls me that privileged little pricks get to keep any benefit at all, but I do not think removing credits is right.

Just my two cents

[MichMan]

47. I agree completely

[hunter]

40. Let him have his official transcripts...

... but put a big red stamp on them that his admission was fraudulent.

Let any future schools and employers deal with that as they may.

In any case, there are schools that will accept his credits without official transcripts and allow him to finish in two years. He only loses a year, which is not uncommon. There are also employers who will overlook this.

The kid's life isn't ruined, it just didn't go in the direction he or his parents were expecting. It happens all the time.

[blueinredohio]

41. Now the whole Trump family needs to be looked into.

As dumb as they all act I doubt they got to college on their own merits.