I can no longer support Speaker Pelosi's position on impeachment.

[jaysunb]

I understood the initial setup, but, we are losing the narrative and the mood of " our " base . Forget the polls and principled procedures. We will likely be involved in military action as soon as the Appeals Court rules against Trump, and all will be lost....including the 2020 elections.
It's time Madame Speaker. ...it's time.

[YOHABLO]

1. I've heard many Dems say they don't want to be a member of a party with no ''back bone".

Will we lose Dems over not going forward with proceedings of impeachment?

[OliverQ]

8. Yes. If people don't see Dems bothering to hold Trump accountable

what makes them any better than Republicans? Putting them in the House did nothing, so people will just stay home and give up.

I'm reaching that point.

[Trumpocalypse]

24. So people that want Trump impeached

will stay home in 2020 and let him get re-elected? That makes no sense.

[StarfishSaver]

27. IKR?

[OliverQ]

29. If they think America is a lost cause and can't be fixed, probably.

[Trumpocalypse]

40. Heard the same argument in 07

When Pelosi took impeaching Bush off the table, many said it would depress the base causing us to lose in 08. It was a nonsensical, illogical, BS argument back then and it is now.

[Grasswire2]

53. 68 House seats were lost.

What do you call that?

[Trumpocalypse]

56. Not in 08

The Dems won seats in both houses of Congress and the Presidency that year.

[wellst0nev0ter]

63. Then lost all three in subsequent election cycles

Because they were too soft against repukes, teabaggers, trumpanzees or whatever iteration these rightwing freaks take.

[Trumpocalypse]

64. Which had nothing to do with

not impeaching Bush. It is a false and dishonest argument.

[gldstwmn]

66. Or that our elections are not free and fair, yes.

Voter fatigue could extend to what the weather is like that day and how long the lines are. If they feel like he's going to cheat and get away with it then what's the point?

[Goodheart]

11. We will lose voters if we don't impeach.

My son exemplifies the problem: "WHAT'S THE POINT OF VOTING if our elected representatives do nothing?" he asks.

[EffieBlack]

19. How exactly does that work?

You’re saying that voters hate Trump so much that if Democrats don’t take steps to impeach him, they won’t do the only thing they have the power to do to keep him from staying in office?

Yeah, letting Trump get re-elected will REALLY punish those Democrats for not impeaching him, won’t it?

[Act_of_Reparation]

21. After 2016, you're really expecting voters to behave rationally?

I'd reconsider.

[EffieBlack]

23. If they're too irrational to vote Trump out if he's not impeached

why would you trust them to vote him out if he IS impeached?

[Act_of_Reparation]

35. I don't trust them at all.

Under any circumstance.

[Caliman73]

61. It is emotional Effie.

If you've read my posts in the last couple of days, especially on your OP about doing research, you would see that psychological research suggests that when emotional responses are activated logic and critical thinking go out the window.

Many elections have been about getting people to "feel" something. Reagan was good at it, Trump, unfortunately has been very good at it. He gets his followers to feel fear and anger (which is not hard since conservatives tend toward those emotions anyway) and he gets our side to feel despair. Voter turn out has been very depressed in the last several elections. 2018 was an uptick, especially for an off year election, but there are a not insignificant number of people who might possibly sit out an election if they feel that apathetic about the effect it would have.

I am not one of those people. I would rather see impeachment, but impeachment or not Democrats must retake all 3 branches of government to restore normal order. Howver, I do feel (feel being operative) that impeachment is necessary to make sure that everyone gets the message that criminality in the office of the presidency is not acceptable.

[jaysunb]

62. +1 n/t

[StarfishSaver]

28. I hope you explained to him why that makes no sense

[LanternWaste]

60. And lose yet others if the proceedings in fact, happen.

This is where we are compelled to gather objective number sets, crunch them and from those analyses, and form valid conclusions and cost/benefit ratios in regards to numbers lost versus number gained in each scenario.

"WHAT'S THE POINT OF VOTING if our elected representatives gain absolutely nothing by doing something?"
(six of one, half a dozen of the other...)

[gldstwmn]

68. My millennial children feel the same way.

They think it doesn't matter.

[murielm99]

2. Read this thread:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142318592

You might agree with it. At least think about it.

[Thekaspervote]

3. Entitled to your opinion. I trust our dem leaders, they have done well in these difficult times

[watoos]

4. We have lost the narrative,

Dems should be holding hearings daily. Subpoena Felix Sater, Corey Lewandowski. Thank god for this last judge's ruling on Trump's accounting firm it flipped the narrative for while away from abortion, Iran, the border, but Trump will appeal the decision.

Here's the deal with me; made up scenario; I have a neighbor who tells me he is moving away in a week, 2 days later I see him knocking the teeth out of his wife and kids. I don't call the cops because he will be gone in a few days, out of my neighborhood.

Trump deserves more than to lose the election, deserves more than being impeached, MF45 deserves to go to jail, deserves to lose what money he has grifted. It is better to act and lose, than to not act at all. Debates start in June. Elections start in February, when is it the right time to impeach?

[EffieBlack]

22. "Losing the narrative" is a made-up concept pushed by lazy pundits who don't want

to redo any actual reporting or explaining and, instead blame Democrats for supposedly not doing what the reporters themselves should be doing.

And funny thing, no matter WHAT “narrative” the Democrats present, they are completely dependent on the media to report it and, usually, they simply refuse to do it, or report it with their own spin so the “narrative” becomes unrecognizable.

The other day, Chuck Todd was bemoaning the Democrats ostensible failure to communicate Trump’s criminality to the public as if, as a journalist, whose job it is to provide this kind of information to the public and who seems to think he’s fully aware of and knowledgeable about this information, he had no responsibility for helping to communicate it beyond telling everyone else why they weren’t communicating properly ...

I remembered the media consistently bashing Hillary for supposedly not talking about issues of concern to voters. But every time she did did talk about those things, they immediately cut away from her because they said she was “boring” and switched over to cover Trump rallies.

And notice how the media never accuses Republicans of losing the narrative, regardless how bizarre, rambling or disjointed their positions are? (They also never accused them of “overplaying their hand” Or being in “disarray,” either ...)

Yesterday, I heard a democratic pundit say the Democrats should start impeachment hearings because Because the media would devote huge coverage for them that they won’t give to regular oversight hearings. Seriously? So the media is telling politicians, “The world is on fire. Only you can save it. The only way to save it is by putting it in front of the American people through us.. But we will only put it in front of the American people if you do it our way so that we can make a show out of it. Otherwise, we will ignore you.“

The “narrative” narrative, in my view, is pure bullshit.

[Me.]

30. People Like Michael Schmidt

Peter Baker, Kelly O'donnell and others always give the edge to traitor trump. On Nicole Wallace's show yesterday the meme was traitor trump is wrong but strong...Dems right but weak. The first portion of the show was a rant against the Dems with even the so called senior advisor to Move-On joining in.

[EffieBlack]

32. I saw that

Unbelievable.

They are salivating for the “Impeachment Show”

[StarfishSaver]

33. I saw it.

I was really annoyed with Karine Jean-Pierre who is usually so good. But she sat there and parroted the same false "facts" about Watergate that lots of people here are spreading. She went on and on about how the Watergate impeachment hearings produced so much evidence that turned public support for impeachment from 30% to 60% so Congress needs to open impeachment hearings right now. She was just flat out wrong. She conflated the Senate hearings with House impeachment hearings.

She's too smart to make such a sloppy mistake, but, unfortunately, lots of people watched it and came away believing something that's just not true.

[Me.]

34. And She Was The Dem On The Panel

[StarfishSaver]

36. She was wrong and strong, so I guess it's ok

[Me.]

37. ...

good one

[Chin music]

42. +11

Lots of folks busted ass to get the Blue Wave. Maybe some hard action for the base, OUR base, would be nice. Ever notice how we all behave and pivot on trumps malignant russian-loving, base? I do. There's almost no down side to impeachment. Let's go. His criminality is so obvious a committee of 6th graders could investigate him. EW says to do it. I'm w her. For a woman who thinks everything through, she wouldn't say that lightly. I trust her judgement.

[Demsrule86]

50. 40 moderates won the midterms...it was not an AOC type election as another poster put it...

so no the 'base' ( I consider myself the base but whatever, I was out campaigning for those moderates)who was busy primarying sitting Democrats which gets us nowhere...do not get to call the shots and possibly cause us to lose.

[gldstwmn]

69. Kamala Harris is also in favor.

[Chin music]

70. yep.

[MrsCoffee]

18. +1

[DLevine]

5. Absolutely, impeach his sorry ass. Barr as well. nt

[Hortensis]

6. :) You don't need to take a POSITION at all, Jaysunb,

because you have no say in this and don't have the information and expertise you'd need if you did. It's the vote where we come in.

In spite of our fear and anxiety about our nation, on DU this is playing out most passionately, and pathetically predictably, as a factional squabble between those supportive of our house leadership and those who want them replaced. Those who don't care to get involved in that shouldn't get sucked in anyway by imagining they somehow should.

[Goodheart]

16. I don't see where the OP called for Pelosi to be replaced.

[Chin music]

44. That's a hell of a note.

"pathetically"? Really? YOU'RE WRONG. We have a lot to do besides vote. See nationwide protests today for womens health and abortion rights. America can get out in the streets, but, no real urgency from Congress.
Saying we don't have the expertise, is really a slap in the face.
Let's just sit around and let the gop run the show I guess? We can't do shit til NOVEMBER 2020? What do you suppose those ships in the Indian Ocean will be doing by then?
PS..."THE VOTE" has been tainted, and you suggest we should all just rely on that system again for justice? Wow.

[Demsrule86]

49. I protest too...but getting out in the streets doesn't change any Republican minds..sometimes I

wonder what is the point?

[Nuggets]

65. "America can get out in the streets, but, no real urgency from Congress.

What are you talking about?
The Dems are doing everything in their power.

The consequences of impeachment at this time does not favor attaining justice. The reason why has been explained several times on DU by several different people.

Acting upon emotions is a foolish course of action.

If you think voters will be angry because Democrats didn’t impeach Trump immediately, imagine how enraged they will be if Dems fail to impeach and convict in the Senate because they failed to follow a procedure or present evidence according to law.

Accuracy is more important than speed at the moment. We still have 7 months until 2020.

[Demsrule86]

7. Oh please, if our base doesn't vote because we didn't impeach than they are damned

fools. I don't believe that. We can't convict...I don't want to give Trump gout more years.

[Goodheart]

13. Damned fools or not, the effect is real.

[StarfishSaver]

38. On the one hand people criticize Pelosi and the Democrats for supposedly weighing politics into this

equation, i.e., they supposedly don't want to impeach because they think it will hurt Democrats in 2020 (which they haven't said, btw). But then people say they need to impeach Trump because if they don't, they'll lose voters.

So who exactly is "playing politics" here?

[Demsrule86]

47. I am tired of being blackmailed by some who can't win but think they can spoil...screw them. We find

a way to win without them and let them sit home and pout while reading HA Goodman or someone like him. You wont' always get your way and sometimes you shouldn't. (not you personally but a general you)

[BannonsLiver]

72. Have you done a scientific study? What kind of data do you have on that?

[Goodheart]

14. Why do you buy into the narrative that impeachment will give trump more years?

That's a presumption not backed by history.

[Demsrule86]

48. I disagree but even if what you say is true. I predict that Trump will play the victim and win if we

are foolish enough to impeach without any shot at conviction. Trust your leaders.

[Andy823]

17. It seems to be the new talking point

From the "doom and gloom" crowd. Pretty soon we will start seeing the "both sides are the same" crap.

I Agee with you, the base will not set out the most important election in history. Getting rid of trump is a priority, and no matter what the doom and gloom crowd says, the voter will turn out.

[Demsrule86]

46. Yep...I trust Nancy. And I really dont see the point of impeachment without convicion...the left is

naïve believing that if only GOP types hear our side, they will change...but it won't happen because they are policy driven...and Trump is giving them what they want the courts and other goodies. If our side didn't 'fall in love' and merely voted in every election for the Democrat no matter what, we would be in the same place, but; no they don't. So now we face losing presidential and senate elections for years if we don't get back to big tent politics and start winning...some here were so happy when the conservadems like Mary Landrieu lost...now we get good progressives they announced triumphantly...nope just Republicans. We had 60 votes with the conservadems when Obama took office...I hear some complaining about Sinema now...do they get how awesome it is that seat is held by a Democrat? Have they looked at a Senate map? Sigh...people need to embrace reality. We have no path to win presidential elections other than MI , WI and PA....all the other states we could get are hypothetical as we have never gotten them or not recently. And the Senate map makes me want to weep...all those who just couldn't abide Heidi or others...how you like their Republican replacements? Wishing won't make it so...you want America to embrace progressive policies than win. Obama single handedly changed the perception of healthcare

[LexVegas]

9. She's devastated. nt

[coti]

10. Of course, if you were actually speaking for Pelosi, this would be recklessly dismissive and

disdainful of the genuine concerns Democrats have for the health of our democracy.

[Kaleva]

41. People would take more extreme actions if they felt the situation was truly dire.

That's human nature. If people restrict themselves to making angry posts on internet forums, one must conclude that they are quite content with the current situation.

[Baltimike]

12. *NOPE*. They will acquit him and he will sail to re election. nt

[Goodheart]

15. Nonsense.

[Trumpocalypse]

26. How?

[Demsrule86]

51. He will be exonerrated by the senate and the mean Democratic bullies will lose the 2020 election.

(Sarcasm about Democratic bullies)

[Trumpocalypse]

54. If the Senate acquits him

He can claim he was exonerated.

[Demsrule86]

71. Yes and he will.

[Chin music]

45. What's happened to you?

trump sailing to re election? jaysus christ man.

[Grasswire2]

57. IKR?

He doesn't have the numbers NOW to win.

He's under water.

Imagine how it will be after the evidence is actually revealed against him and his thugs. On live TV. In hearings.

The televising of hearings is what moved Republicans against Nixon.

And it will do the same against Trump.

[Hotler]

20. +1

[Trumpocalypse]

25. Pelosi has been elected Speaker twice

One of only a few who have done that.

I trust her judgement, she has been right more times than she has been wrong.

[MontanaMama]

31. I believe in Speaker Pelosi.

I believe there is a lot going on behind the scenes that is not being reported by the MSM. This is messy and uncomfortable but that doesn’t mean that Dems aren’t doing anything just because it isn’t moving fast enough for us. That said, if subpoenas are not enforced then I do have a problem with that. What’s the point of issuing them if they aren’t enforced?

[StarfishSaver]

39. Subpoenas are being enforced

Yesterday's grand slam court decision enforced a subpoena.

Subpoenas and contempt citations take time. And they have to be done right in order for them to be enforced. Congress can't just pull them out of a bag, throw them like a lasso and drag people before them.

It took a couple of months for the Oversight Committee to lay the groundwork for the subpoena of Trump's financial records, but they took their time, did it right, followed all the procedures and when they got to court, the judge very expeditiously and thoroughly ruled and pretty much threw the book at Trump.

THAT'S how it's done. It's not fast or sexy enough to satisfy some people, but it's not supposed to be done entertain the crowds. It's to do justice and that takes time.

[spanone]

43. K&R...

[George Eliot]

52. I supported Pelosi for speaker. But I agree and said so on Twitter earlier.

Time for the Rule of Law to overrule politics. If we don't do this, we are becoming Trump. The House must fulfill it's lawful duty.

[Grasswire2]

55. another Judiciary Committee member now says it's time to open the inquiry for impeachment

[link:http://

Link to tweet

|

[WhiteTara]

58. thank goodness you aren't running the show.

No offense, but your political acumen isn't as great as Speaker of the House with 50 some years in the game who was trained by the best minds in congress. She is playing a short, mid and long term game.

You can do your part and call your congress critter, especially any republicon and demand impeachment and conviction. Call them daily, hourly or when ever you feel upset with what is going on. Congress switchboard 202 224 3121

[Apple Fritter]

59. You know I have no idea how any of this works

I think there is a long game happening here I feel that these committee wouldn't be spew all this threatening and posturing with though having a plan to do it. They However, I feel like the only way the House can truly restore confidence in the party is by doing impeachment in time BEFORE the elections. I, personally, am giving them till Fall, or till Nov at the latest. People can't wait now...imaging how dejected everyone will feel by the end of the year to see this same thing happening over and over again. But I feel something is got to give...who knows what is happening now.

[fescuerescue]

67. I hope she reads your message

Next time she's on DU.