Why is the WH Trying to Goad Impeachment? I Thank GOD Pelosi isn't that triggered.

[Baltimike]

Brokahontas has done MANY impeachable offenses....but we haven't even gotten through to the tip of the iceberg, and we only get one shot.

MOSCOW MITCH ASSURES ACQUITTAL.

And until we get passed that, the ONLY side impeachment helps is *theirs*.

Don't let them goad you...let the storm brew...

Because if we impeach right now, we lose. It's really that simple.

I know this won't be popular, but his has been on my chest for a minute now, so here it is.

[dubyadiprecession]

2. Yes, she is a good vote counter.

She can even count votes in the senate, which Tom Steyer is unable to do.

[Baltimike]

4. amen! nt

[StarfishSaver]

8. Indeed

[watoos]

10. Really? If we are waiting for 20 Republican Senators

to vote to convict Donald Trump then let's quit beating around the bush, those Democrats should be honest enough to just come out and say it, impeachment is off the table, impeachment is strictly a political issue.

If my neighbor tells me he is moving away next week and 2 days later I see him beating up his wife and kids, hey, I don't have to call the cops because in a few days he will be gone, out of my hair.

[CaptYossarian]

43. 20 Republicans? We don't know how pale blue Dems like Manchin would vote.

We could need as many as 23 Republicans.

I've settled on NOT impeaching Trump because Vice President Frank Burns will just pardon him and then he won't get convicted after the feds drag him out of the White House. He needs to die in prison of old age.

[SergeStorms]

48. Pence can't pardon him...

from his crimes in New York State, and believe me, there will be convictions in New York.

[CaptYossarian]

57. They've been as secretive as Mueller was.

I know they've been investigating, but will they do a better job when the report is handed up? At least at the state level, Barr won't be able to obstruct.

[FakeNoose]

61. I wouldn't be surprised if the AG in NYS

... is secretly sharing info with SDNY, and vice versa. It wouldn't be illegal (I don't think) but maybe it's slightly unprofessional. Knowing that they're facing the egregious behavior committed by the criminal in the White House, I don't think any court could blame them.

[CaptYossarian]

72. If they were doing anything illegal or unprofessional, they'd be Republicans.

That includes immoral, unethical, greedy or traitorous. Hell, count the Seven Deadly Sins while you're at it.

[FakeNoose]

76. I don't think it's illegal (or immoral) for prosecutors to share information

Sometimes the state and federal law enforcement groups work together, for example the FBI and local/state police will have a joint investigation. How would prosecution be different?

[Perseus]

50. Impeachment must begin to get all the information

To begin impeachment process does not imply that impeachment will occur, but it allows the Democratic leaders to cut the talk and get to work, it allows them to get all the documentation needed to do their investigation.

I don't get this push to congratulate Pelosi, Nadler, Schiff, etc. for not doing anything? Lets face it, absolutely no offensive actions that have produced any positive results have been made by Democrats, every subpoena has been fought by the WH, which in my book should be added to the charges of "obstruction of justice", the rest is Nadler saying "all options are on the table, we are weighing our options"...please, that should be in the past, they should know what the course of action is and get on with it.

I know many of you will hate this, but the reality is that we have two political parties, the republicans are moving forward, they talk and they act, destructively, but they act, and then we have the Democrats, talk, talk, and no action. If you don't agree with this, fine, but please allow me to be wrong by pointing out, listing all the accomplishments from the Democrats in fighting the corruption we have in the WH.

Has anyone read the unredacted Muller report yet? Has McGhan complied with his subpoena? Is Don Jr. going to testify without any conditions? Is Muller going to testify? Please, I beg you, prove me wrong.

Anyone who thinks Don Jr testifying with conditions is a win, oh well...nothing to say to that then. They subpoena Don Jr, he gets back to them with a list of conditions and Nadler presents it as an accomplishment...Come on!

Time is running out...

[ehrnst]

63. You certainly are frantic. (nt)

[Baltimike]

79. They are investigating anyway, and NO IT IS NOT NECESSARY to gather evidence. nt

[ehrnst]

70. Perhaps you don't recall that Pelosi stated that it would need bipartisan support

and hard evidence.

Investigations take time, no matter how very very anxious and mad some people may be.

[BeyondGeography]

14. Giving Mitch McConnell veto power over her co-equal branch of govt

Brilliant, yes.

[librechik]

83. Once we impeach him, he is IMPEACHED. Senate acquittal never erases that.

So we lose. We can't win if we don't play. Doing nothing is not an option. We are only divided over the timing. And Nancy is in the wheelhouse. Let her steer.

[spanone]

3. They're not goading. They are acting like criminals.

[Baltimike]

6. Oh, they're goading...and they aren't *acting*

they *are* criminals.

[StarfishSaver]

16. No. They're goading.

They're acting like criminals, too, but that's nothing new.

But they're definitely trying to goad the Democrats into starting impeachment hearings now so they can 1) cement public opinion pretty much where it is right now since most people will just tune out what they think of as political infighting; 2) shut down all of the other oversight investigations; 3) get impeachment out of the way a year before the election; 4) ensure that no future investigations can take place after he's impeached and acquitted.

[spanone]

18. Nope.

[Baltimike]

32. Yep

spot on

[TwilightZone]

28. Nah, they're clearly goading, especially Trump.

Trump is all but begging the Dems to impeach.

Goading and acting like criminals aren't mutually exclusive, by the way. In this case, they're clearly doing both.

[spanone]

29. Nope. Laws broke. Congress' duty.

[Baltimike]

33. Yep. Duty for investigations...and oversight...not to kowtow to Moscow mitch. nt

[Iliyah]

5. I would assume t-rump, after being kicked out of office

that he has illegally occupied would not be subject to indictment. That's my take.

He's already been labeled as a criminal but will serve no time in jail.

[wryter2000]

67. I wouldn't assume that

If the Justice (ha!) Department doesn't get him, the State of New York probably will.

[NewJeffCT]

7. Trump thinks the Senate will never convict him

however, rolling televised hearings over a period of months will build the impeachment momentum. He's already far less popular than Trump or Clinton was at the start of the process.

[LonePirate]

11. The Senate will not convict him. There's only one chance at impeachment and Dems fear failure.

An impeachment inquiry should begin, though, even if it never escalates to a full fledged impeachment vote in the House. Start the hearings and investigations which would stop the obstruction (maybe) and would allow the House to perform the necessary oversight.

[marylandblue]

12. Trump's polling numbers aren't comparable to prior Presidents.

Other Presidents approval ratings went up and down as they lost moderates and even parts of their base. Trump's approval has remained steady almost no matter what he does. Impeachment is not going to change that. His base in red states won't abandon him, which means their Senators won't either.

[NewJeffCT]

21. His numbers have gone up and down

Gallup's weekly numbers have had him as low as 35% and as high as 46% and there has not been any sort of sustained effort to put Donny on the defensive (Cohen hearings, Comey testimony, etc). He's been able to drive the media coverage so completely that people forget the scandals that brought him down to 35% or 36% within a day or two.

Over the long term, it looks steady because the lows are short-lived and counteracted by highs

[marylandblue]

23. He has the steadiest polling of any President in the history of polling.

And the biggest partisan divide. I am not sure what you mean by "sustained effort" to put him on the defensive. More bad news about his crimes and shady dealings has been reported than any other politician in history. Yet 90% of Republicans think he is not just good, but great.

He is unusual for an American President, but he is not unusual in terms of world history. This is what a right wing populist movement looks like. The populist leader uses the attacks on him as proof that his attackers are just corrupt partisans themselves. See "What is Poulism" by Jan-Werner Muller. Pelosi acts like she read it. You should read it too.

[NewJeffCT]

37. Over time, his numbers LOOK steady

However, there has been volatility on a weekly basis. It's looked steady partly because Donny has been shoring up his support among Republicans and losing support of independents over time. His numbers for "support" and "strongly support" have been up and down as well.

However, each daily scandal drowns out the last daily scandal or scandals, just like the presidential race in 2016. Trump's daily outrages and scandals were so frequent and so numerous that it had a numbing effect during 2016 that continues to this day. So, when the Clinton email "scandal" and the DNC email "scandal" broke in 2016, those two fake scandals were given equal footing by the media to the dozens and dozens of Trump scandals and hundreds of outrageous things Trump said or tweeted. (Jimmy Carter got hammered for saying "malaise" and Ford may have lost the presidency when he stated there was no Soviet domination in eastern Europe...)

So, be warned that in 2020, if the nominee is Biden, Sanders, Warren, Harris or whoever, if they have one or two gaffes or misstatements, it will be given equal footing to EVERY SINGLE Trump crime, scandal, crazed tweet, insane statement or action.

[marylandblue]

73. His number just don't LOOK steady, they ARE steady.

His daily scandals did indeed numb us, while his constant harping on emails made THAT the story. Of course this will happen to Biden. He will try different BS until he finds a line that works, then he'll hammer it until election day. Meanwhile he will distract from his own many scandals by piling one on top of another.

Which is why no scandal or direct attack will take him down, but a laser focus on bread and butter issues will.

I hope Biden has a plan for this. I know my candidate does.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

64. Id really like to see the press and Dems talk about how

He's not having press conferences. How he gets away with stuff... doesn't have to explain or answer for all the crap

[Baltimike]

34. this. nt

[standingtall]

9. An impeachment inquiry should've already started

and I don't think the senate acquitting him will hurt us. By refusing to impeach him under any circumstance just because we don't have the votes in the senate we might as well be acquitting him ourselves.

[watoos]

13. Well said,

It is better to take actions and fail then to take no actions at all.

The notion that holding an impeachment hearing will hurt Democrats makes me chuckle. Trump's base isn't going to get any bigger, it is what it is. Democrats looking weak will certainly cause many millennial Democrats to stay home on election day.

No one says that Democrats can't drag out the impeachment hearing right up to the election, correct?

[marylandblue]

17. If Trump's base isn't getting any bigger, ours isn't getting any smaller

It would be pretty odd if Democrats who hate Trump so much that they want him impeached won't take their one opportunity to "impeach" him themselves.

[standingtall]

19. Voters cannot impeach anybody impeachment is a constitutional authority left to the congress

and losing an election is no substitute for justice. Good people lose elections all the time, but Trump is a crook and he deserves to have the I word next to his name as part of his Presidential legacy. If Democrats do not impeach Trump they will look back and regret it.

[marylandblue]

24. That's why I put "impeach" in "quotes,"

I don't care about his legacy. Politics is what we do right now for our needs. History makes its own judgements, and past generations would be very surprised about our opinion of what they did. The same will happen to us.

[watoos]

26. I maybe didn't make myself clear,

I could have said, drag out the impeachment hearing as long as possible, before impeaching.

[StarfishSaver]

31. It will be difficult to do that

Once impeachment officially starts, we're on a very short timeline since the public and media patience will be very limited.

Once all of the investigations into Trump are consolidated into an impeachment - which they will be - the focus will be on the impeachment inquiry and hearings. Trump will have one enemy, one foil to attack and he'll attack every hour every day. The Republicans will target them and attack and attack. And, once it gets its impeachment hearing fix, the media will also start to pile on, pressuring them to cut to the chase, stop fiddling around, why don't you impeach him or get off the pot already, the Democrats are overplaying their hand, they've lost the narrative, the public is bored, we're not going to go live but will instead present another panel to talk about what the Democrats are doing wrong, when is too much too much, are they EVER going to vote? blah blah blah.

[marylandblue]

15. Well it's a political judgement as to what happens with an acquital

And Pelosi has made her judgement. I don't think she us wrong because none of the news over the last two years and the Mueller report itself has not dented his ratings at all but he did use each bit of news as an opportunity to exonerate himself, shire up his base, and distract from other issues.

[ecstatic]

20. It's their duty to impeach. nt

[Fullduplexxx]

22. Because if we impeach right now, we lose. It's really that simple. " i dont agree and

It really isnt that simple but we all have our opinions. It is her duty to impeach .

[blm]

25. They should follow the law, hold public hearings, then vote to impeach.

Somebody has to uphold the law in this country.

[Duppers]

44. Nothing says they can't string out impeachment hearings

For many months without calling for the vote. That's gets the message out in preparation for when we win the Senate.

[Chin music]

54. +1

[watoos]

27. We won a blue tsunami in 2018

and the #1 reason why we won was because the voters want Democrats to be a check on Trump, to hold him accountable. If we fail to even hold an impeachment hearing, what message does that send?

[Duppers]

46. THIS. ⬆⬆

[Drunken Irishman]

49. NEVER use a midterm as a way to read the tea leaves for a presidential election...

If midterms were about holding specific people/policies in check, Obama would not have won reelection in 2012. Remember, the whole narrative in 2010's landslide win for the GOP was that they were sent to congress to block Obama's health reform. Obama still passed health reform and still won reelection in 2012 by a comfortable margin.

If midterm elections meant anything, Bob Done and Mitt Romney would have been presidents.

[dustyscamp]

80. I think there will be way more people at the polls during a Presidential election

Midterms, municipal and any other event doesn't really matter as much to the general population

[themaguffin]

69. Being a check and going down the impeachment path are 2 very different things

Healthcare was the top reason for voting for Democrats.

People wanted Democrats in the House to stop the Republicans and trump.

Let's not conflate that with "they voted for Democrats to impeach Trump."

[Baltimike]

82. We just took power four months ago...the investigations are working

Also, it sends the message that we can count, and don't want to cede to Moscow Mitch. Because that is all that will happen in this case.

[rainin]

30. They're conditioning EVERYONE to see impeachment as a win for them.

It neuters us.

You got to say one thing about republicans. They may be bad at governing, but they're good at politics.

[AdamGG]

35. Impeachment would be about as useful as filibustering Neil Gorsuch was

It was a matter of principle for Democrats in the Senate to filibuster Gorsuch because of what the Republicans did to Merrick Garland, but not very many Americans would even know now that that happened.

Dump is goading the Democrats toward impeachment because he wants that ammunition fired and depleted and then he can proclaim that the Senate has "exonerated" him. I think it's much better to keep the threat as a possibility, inexhaustibly grinding gears forcing subpoenaed testimony, investigations which are progressing - but DON'T forward it to the Senate with an actual impeachment vote.

Investigations and hearings galore, but don't vote to forward it to the Senate.

[padah513]

52. +1

[Vinnie From Indy]

36. LOL!

I could not disagree with you more!

[Cracklin Charlie]

38. He wants to be impeached for obstruction now...

As opposed to impeached for treason after investigations.

I want investigations. For all of them.

[wryter2000]

68. Well put

Multiple investigations right up to the election. More and more evidence comes to light every week.

[Texin]

39. I think the "logic" of believing Impeachment is deleterious to the Dems is a fallacy.

While I would agree that leadership should not be "goaded" into acting prematurely, they need to act at the appropriate time and after laying the proper and necessary legal steps. Democrats assumed incorrectly that the Rethugs would be "punished" by the electorate in the election year following Bill Clinton's impeachment and subsequent non-conviction. That did not happen. While the rethugs were viewed during that process as being frivolous and hypocritical, they suffered zero repercussions for it. They "won" the White House (with a little help from the rethug majority on the SCOTUS), and rigging of Florida by brother Bush to help his older brother. And they took both houses of congress that year. They obviously had no downside political consequences.

Clinton's wrongdoing(s) were the things of trashy movies, what tRump and his cohorts have done and continue to do are outrageous and dangerous. There is so much lawlessness and treasonous behavior, as well as obstruction of justice that have been on open display and are the subject of an investigation that went on for over two years at taxpayer expense. We paid for that investigation and we have a right to hear the unvarnished truth of what was found. It needs to be made public, and the only way seemingly to do that is to move to impeach and see where it leads. If this is not done, it will never matter again whether the Dems "win" an election, because the damage will have already been done by the rethuglican majority in the Senate with the help of Putin and the Russian oligarchs.

[Trumpocalypse]

71. The case still needs to be made to the people

just as they did in Watergate. There was over a year of congressional investigations before the first impeachment hearings in May 1974.

[Nasruddin]

40. goad or no goad

I don't think there's much quality tactics or strategy in what the president and his team are doing, but it's possible I'm wrong. They are more likely just reacting to whatever is happening at the moment and their only working tool is sandbagging. It looks like they might want to do a counter offensive ("investigate the fbi spies&quot but maybe they just don't have the tools to do it. Quis custodiet custodes?
I don't discount sandbagging. It might work.

On the other hand the Democrats can run against Mr Trump, and that's a lot easier than boring policy details. So keeping the squeeze on slow is valuable, and it would probably be best to run the investigation show right into the election period next year. It suckers in the president, who will be occupying the center stage just like he wants it. They don't want Mr Trump running a victory lap as his campaign, they want him failing to follow the law on front and center media. This energizes both bases but ours is the one that matters and the one that is hard to get to vote.

[BadGimp]

41. Brokahontas - good one - added to AltTrumpNames.com listicle

Awesome play on words Baltimike!

[WhiteTara]

42. But you can help move it along, call

202 224 3121 ask for your congress person and tell them that you want to impeach. Especially republicons.

[pdsimdars]

45. I don't know if they should do impeachment but your reasoning isn't sound

The public needs to be informed about what the president has been doing. THAT is accomplished in those hearings, either regular hearings or impeachment hearings. Impeachment in congress is the investigative phase and when they vote, that is like an indictment which is passed on to the Senate for trial.
They are not getting the message out to the public as it is. Maybe impeachment will help. But they need to get those hearings going and educate the public.

[dlk]

47. Pelosi is the Savviest Politician in Washington

I trust her and I trust her leadership. It’s too soon for impeachment. However, we are amassing evidence and heading in that direction. In the meantime, keeping up the pressure on Trump isn’t a bad strategy. He’s obviously feeling the pressure.

[BlueJac]

51. It's a timing thing...

I trust Pelosi even though I can't wait to nail the Orange Bastard!

[Chin music]

53. When we as Democrats stop acting, bc of what we perceive the repubs will do, we have lost our

independence and are just reactionaries. Unless you have a crystal ball and know the future, I reserve the right to disagree. I want to work for, and vote for people who worked for, and voted for ME, come 2020. We can take allll the time we need. Eliz Warren said it's go time. She has a plan for everything. I hardly think she and others (Mr Raskin, Waters, Cicilllini )would go off the cuff with that. Dems who want everyones vote in 2020, need to put a nickle in it and get the party started. We should be months into it by now. Repub Senators dont dictate how Americas system works. If they vote to stop it, so be it, but I highly doubt that not getting convicted in the Senate is going to LOSE us votes. Seems like an excuse to continue to do nothing, to me. JMHO.
The old "we can't bc...the gop will" Meme needs to die.

[shanny]

55. Why do we allow our opponents to frame the debate?

Why does anyone think the choices are impeachment now, or nothing? Why can we not start massive investigations and televised hearings exploring and presenting Mueller's findings along with everything else not covered in his report?

Hmmm?

Would you rather go into the next election with much greater public awareness of all the criminality, misfeasance, malfeasance, stupidity and corruption of this president in particular and the pukes in general...or with none of those things?

And yes! we can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can pass legislation to help the American people, which will fail in the Senate or be vetoed by the tangerine menace. Let THAT be seen and become known far and wide as well.

They made this bed: make them lie in it.

[Chin music]

58. I like politicians who fight.

Not react, or fail to react bc of some unknown boogey man in the closet. Voters will vote for who put the boots to enemies of America. it's not all about trump, it's about protecting us from russia. When the election comes and we have not impeached, his talking point may be. "They didnt impeach, bc I was innocent." Works both ways. He will make the narrative positive for him either way.

[shanny]

59. Agree.

I like politicians who fight also, not for fighting sake, but for real things. The danger to our system is very real, and needs to be opposed with every tool we have.

[Soxfan58]

56. Trumps controlling the narrative.

And I have to explain to my grandson that some people are above the law. If the house shows overwhelming evidence. The senate would look very bad ahead of 2020.

[bubbazero]

60. INHERENT CONTEMPT

If too soon for an impeachment inquiry---(if not now when?)----move to a vote of inherent contempt of AG Barr---when passed---have sergeant of arms take AG Barr into custody---Sit his ass down and bring AG barr in for house trial of CONTEMPT---Sit him in hotel---no phone,cable tv, of internet until he cooperates. ANYONE ELSE WHO ATTEMPTS TO IGNORE LAWFULLY ISSUED CONGRESSIONAL SUBPOENAS GETS THE SAME TREATMENT---This will start to break loose the information---ALL OF IT--that congress requires and is lawfully entitled to to perform their CONSTITUTIONALLY MANDATED TASK OF OVERSIGHT

[brooklynite]

62. Why not?

He knows the Senate won't convict, and thus he'll be "exonerated".

He can rally his flagging voters with "they're out to get me"

He can limit the time Democrats will spend on policies that would actually attract voters.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

65. Better question...why do some people never

mention justice and holding trump accountable? Just have a singular purpose of telling anyone who wants impeachment (66% of Dems...10+ million signed petition for it) that Nancy is right no impeachment. Seems like a very odd MO for a Dem.

[malchickiwick]

66. KICK -- I too trust Speaker Pelosi.

I admit, my gut tells me IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH; even though we would see the Senate acquit, it seems to me that laying the case out before the public in such a setting would ensure that Democrats cruise to victory in 2020.

Then I remember that Nancy Pelosi has been doing this a long while and that not only does she have more political acumen in her little finger than I could ever possess in full, she is one of the sliest, sharpest, and prescient politicians in the history of the Republic. She knows what she's doing, and that helps settle my gut.

[maxsolomon]

74. He's trying to get it over with before the election ramps up.

Get it done, including the Senate trial/acquittal, before the winter. Move on to claiming victimhood while destroying the rule of law, betting that the average low-information flibberdigibbet American voter has the memory retention of a gnat.

Maybe the Dems will make a procedural error he can exploit along the way, which would be a bonus in his victimhood narrative.

It's the best strategy he has. Probably the one Barr has recommended.

[stillcool]

75. that's what I think..

it's scary to see how easy it is to have the public clamoring for something about which they have little knowledge. Sounds good, looks good. Results don't matter, but have fun beating up the Democrats.

[BigDemVoter]

77. THIS is why it is important to have a Speaker with EXPERIENCE.

I want to impeach the motherfucker as much as anybody, but let's not cut our own throats in doing so. And let's not forget that many voters are fucking STUPID and will blame Democrats.

[Baltimike]

78. it sure is...

people demanding impeachment *RIGHT* *NOW* are just ceding victory to Brokahontas.

[GeorgeGist]

81. A whole minute ...

No wonder you're upset!

[backscatter712]

84. The correct time to impeach is about a month or two before the election.

I know, this is a strategic choice, as opposed to being a pure moral choice.

But I want an impeachment that succeeds. If not in removing that piece of subhuman trash from the White House, then in completely discrediting him and every Republican shitstain that supports him.

So the anger we should be feeling and stoking should be a slow burn that results in an all-engulfing inferno that is at its hottest on Election Day.

That's my strategy, anyways. Impeach strategically.

What to do right now? Impeachment hearings, and yes we should be calling them impeachment hearings. House Democrats should be donning the latex gloves and giving Trump a colonoscopy right now...