General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow on Earth do horse racing fans
rationalize the fact that their entertainment is built on a foundation of animals being physically destroyed and subsequently put down? Seemingly multiple times a week some poor horse shatters a leg for no reason other than to excite spectators and enrich betting services.
This isnt the same as humans being injured in sport; those are rational beings with agency deciding to accept that risk; animals dont have that ability or understanding.
This sport needs to disappear.
hlthe2b
(102,225 posts)Last edited Tue May 21, 2019, 01:22 PM - Edit history (2)
ALL horses will become a basic rarity and the providence of the ultra-rich only. Owning a backyard horse is becoming increasing cost-prohibitive for most people. Even ranchers in CO, WY and other parts of the West are raising fewer horses to do the day to day work with some (regrettably) turning to all-terrain vehicles and other motorized vehicles.
If horse racing goes because we can't provide for the safety of these beautiful animals, so too goes many or most of the other horse events. Barrel racing and competitive jumping are arguably even more dangerous in many venues--to both horse and rider.
Already the foals being produced and sold at major events like Saratoga have dramatically decreased--down nationwide to its lowest levels in 53 years.
So, maybe racing should go away, but largely too will the prevalence of horses in this country if there cease to be money-producing events to bolster them.
I'm conflicted. Santa Ana Raceway should surely close though. Enough. Safety before everything else should be the rule.
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A DAY IN THE LIFE
(88 posts)Sorry, couldn't resist
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hlthe2b
(102,225 posts)I will self-delete my responses to you if you will do the same. Otherwise other posters (like the poster from MT) will be equally confused and I'm tired of being falsely attacked.
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Maru Kitteh
(28,339 posts)And we are NOT rich folk out here, for the most part. They are a part of life here.
That being said, if horses are only here to be abused and destroyed - they should go.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,365 posts)hlthe2b
(102,225 posts)not a good mistake to make...
Cartoonist
(7,316 posts)I don't buy the rational being excuse for boxing.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)I wouldnt encourage anyone I know to box, but who am I to tell them they cant? Animals arent choosing to subject themselves to this level of specialized breeding and subsequent dangerous activity.
Cartoonist
(7,316 posts)I don't mean to stereotype boxers. I could be all wrong, but when someone lives in reduced circumstances, and the only opportunity to get ahead is to be a boxer, I can see that choice. I still don't like it.
VOX
(22,976 posts)Ali himself once said (without his usual bravado), When I quit boxing, the game died, didnt it? He was right. Its staggered along since, too many belts, flame-outs like Mike Tyson, venues narrowed down to gambling centers like Atlantic City and Las Vegas.
Harker
(14,012 posts)to see someone else hurt, whether it's a human or a horse.
VOX
(22,976 posts)Years ago, I used to be a big boxing, horse racing, and football fan. But as I matured, I began to perceive the pain, damage and physical breakdown caused by these sports. I no longer care to support (even by passively watching) these destructive diversions.
There's no legitimate reason for full-power contact sports or animal abuse.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)when the ONLY thing being attempted is to give the other person a concussion or worse. And there are idiots who pay to watch that. Much of humanity is no more mentally advanced now than in the 3rd century BC when gladiatorial combat is though to have begun.
TommyCelt
(838 posts)These poor dogs are raced for maybe 3 years, and then unceremoniously put down. There are some great greyhound rescues organizations out there (a couple here on Long Island NY), but the dogs who make it that far are the lucky ones.
EarnestPutz
(2,120 posts)....found a dozen dead dogs at the county landfill, destroyed because they too old to race, at three years. There was quite a backlash. They fought it for a while with an "Adopt a Greyhound" program, but the track folded eventually.
Submariner
(12,503 posts)I was watching a Paso Fino competition on TV in Latin America and was very impressed at how the horses trotted so quickly, and they trotted on a wooden plank flooring in the arena, which gave a synchronous clopping sound as they moved down the track.
What I was told later was many of those horses undergo a lot of abuse to train them to high step like that, and that they develop painful lag injuries.
I think we need to stop torture training techniques with our friend the horse.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Someone is getting rich on that abuse.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Somehow I doubt theyll answer your question.
TeamPooka
(24,221 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)Obviously we arent going to agree, but if youre a fan how do you feel about the fact that its so common for injuries resulting in death to be baked in to the sport?
TeamPooka
(24,221 posts)Enjoy your high horse.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Mosby
(16,299 posts)They don't have any of the problems like we do here in the US, the horses are so healthy some can still race at 10 years old.
The main differences was longer races, softer tracks and the French don't allow drugs like lasix.
Eta:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/05/15/i-train-racehorses-france-they-live-long-love-their-jobs/
Dread Pirate Roberts
(1,896 posts)A look at the Kentucky Derby:
Coventina
(27,101 posts)Because there is no defense.
oldsoftie
(12,531 posts)Finished by 2021.
I've never been a fan of animals used for sport, since they have no say in the matter
Weird that it hung on as long as it did.
50 Shades Of Blue
(9,975 posts)maxsolomon
(33,310 posts)Except, I guess, non-sports like darts. But I bet dart players wind up with chronic wrist and arm injuries.
Collectively, society has decided that it's worth the cost. All you can do is refuse to participate.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)is fine as long as youre the one making the decision. There was a time I thought I might be good enough to participate at a professional level in a sport, but I peaked early and suddenly everyone outdeveloped me and I was left in the proverbial dust. Id have happily chosen the inevitable damage to compete at that level.
But horses (and dogs, bulls, fighting fish, whatever else people get up to when theyre bored and theyve got some poor animals around) dont have agency. We shouldnt risk their lives for literally a moment of our fun.
maxsolomon
(33,310 posts)nt
Doremus
(7,261 posts)We slaughter millions upon millions of cattle, pigs, chickens, lambs, and all sorts of other sentient beings because we have a craving for a steak.
To paraphrase your last sentence, we shouldn't risk their lives for literally a moment of our selfish wants.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)in2herbs
(2,945 posts)Crown, I'll Have Another, was pulled from the history of racing because his injuries could no longer be medicated away. A comprehensive disclosure of the physical condition of this young horse appeared in a July 11, 2012 article in The New York Times written by Joe Drape and Walt Bogdanich. A few of the article's findings bear repeating and remembering, to wit: "Those officials are aware that American racing continues to be among the world's leaders in catastrophic breakdown of horses . . .". "Twenty-four horses die each week at the nation's racetracks, according to an analysis in the The Times and they break down or show signs of injury at the rate of 5.1 per 1,000 starts. This past winter, 30 horses died at Aqueduct racetrack in New York, a 100 percent increase in the fatality rate over the same period the previous year."
According to statistics 2,128 Thoroughbred foals were born in 1919, as compared to 32,187 Thoroughbred foals in 2009. And, of those 32,187 Thoroughbred foals, only 20 earned enough money to qualify for the Kentucky Derby.
Thoroughbreds love to run. I'd hate for the sport to disappear, but I do want the money and tax advantages to disappear and I firmly believe that no horse should race until the age of 5. When Merv Griffin was an owner he absolved himself of all financial duty to the horse when the horse could no longer run. All race horse owners should be required to financially care for the horse beyond it's racing years.
If I remember correctly, a few years ago, one of the Triple Crown horses was located in Japan, ready for slaughter. Luckily it was rescued.
CloudWatcher
(1,846 posts)I might take exception to that. I'm still waiting for kids being allowed to play tackle football to be considered child abuse.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)but Im inclined to agree with you.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,326 posts)lunatica
(53,410 posts)All animal abuse should be stopped. Period. End of discussion. If training an animal requires abuse then that training should be outlawed.
SCVDem
(5,103 posts)If you eliminate racing, you have also eliminated the need for a Thoroughbred.
The horse is bred to run and without a need for racing, there is no need for the breed.
You aren't advocating equine genocide, are you?
Coventina
(27,101 posts)Nobody is going to kill Thoroughbreds en masse.
Or, if you are suggesting that they would kill them, without horse racing, that's a tell in itself.
It again suggests that there is no value in the horse itself, beyond entertainment for humans. How cold. How cruel.
Horses exist in a rainbow of breeds, most artificially created by us. (Like dogs).
Sure, Thoroughbreds as as breed would diminish and maybe even disappear, but that doesn't mean horses will.
And if people are going to kill their horses because they can't race them, well, that shows them for the monsters they really are.
SCVDem
(5,103 posts)I only meant that minus the money, t breds will not be bred and there would be little incentive to spend so much on a breed which can only run. So much for retirement farms.
See also greyhounds.
Coventina
(27,101 posts)SCVDem
(5,103 posts)We traffic in humans?
Always greed!
Coventina
(27,101 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"You aren't being purposefully obtuse, are you?"
(six of one, half a dozen of the other... and each as without merit as the other)
Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)The rules here will not let me say what my mind is thinking.
3catwoman3
(23,973 posts)...in order that humans might be entertained.
Liberty Belle
(9,534 posts)which has also had way too many horses euthanized and should be shut down.
I told the organizers of the groups, which included a local Democratic club, why I objected and urged them to find a new venue to hold their social gatherings in the future. This is animal abuse, pure and simple.
If they could regulate it as the French do to prevent injuries or keep the number very minimal, I would rethink that. But the problem seems to be worse and worse each you. It has to be mainly drugs -- the track here is the same length its been since the Hollywood heydey when stars like Jimmy Durante frequented the track.
I also believe bullfighting should be banned everywhere, as it's even worse--a "sport" where the intent is to torture then kill an animal.
Texin
(2,594 posts)The quarter horse racing world is especially brutal to the animals. I used to have an Arabian that we would show at halter in competition. Working with the horse in training at stables exposed me to trainers and handlers who had horrific stories about how quarter horses (and thoroughbreds as well) were treated in the racing world.
The horse's most delicate anatomical point are their legs and hooves. Racing can and frequently does result in life-ending injuries, and the most humane thing for the animal is humane euthanasia, though there are some owners who try to save them through some pretty extreme medical procedures (usually because some of them are valuable for breeding if they are from champion bloodstock or they themselves are successful). Many racers are genuinely competitive - they aren't "trained" that way. A horse loves to run and they can and do injure themselves from their own exertions completely outside any track. It's the nature of the beast, but they are definitely exploited and very often maltreated by owners and handlers. It's a cutthroat business. That's a fact.
watoos
(7,142 posts)Coventina
(27,101 posts)watoos
(7,142 posts)have you ever seen how they hunt wild boar with pit bulls?
Coventina
(27,101 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)johnnyknj
(37 posts)I have to say that there is no true justification. Race horses are bred to race, and often get hurt or even die racing and training. The reasons for this are many, and the discussion of why American racing is more dangerous than European or Asian is long and complicated. We can and must improve safety in the U.S., but horses will still get hurt and die. It boils down to what are you willing to accept - should animals be used for the pleasure or profit of people? Most in racing are intellectually dishonest about this - they talk about how well the horses are treated, etc. and about doing "what's best for the horse". In truth, what's best for the horse is living in a big paddock with plenty of forage and good care. Anytime you start using animals for human purpose, whether it's dog shows, pleasure riding, cock fighting or food, you have left what's best for the animal far behind. The issue is a can of worms to be sure.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I agree that anytime an animal is used for work, sport, pleasure events like riding, catching frisbees, food, the issue is no longer what is best for the animal because as you pointed out, what's best for the animal is to be fed and given water and walk around at it's own pace for life. So using animals for anything but what is best for them boils down to giving a rationalization to justify the other uses.
I am a meateater. I try to justify that by buying "humanely" treated animal products, like something living only a tiny fraction of it's natural life is humane. I see the moral contradiction, I trully do, but I have conceptualized it and seldom think when I eat a piece of chicken or eggs.
RainCaster
(10,866 posts)In Shutzhund, genetics plays an important role. If your Champion develops displasia, s/he is no longer allowed to breed. In horse racing having a stable full of mares that create fragile limbed progeny is an acceptable investment.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,848 posts)is a very large part of the problem. Every single one can be traced back to something like two or three ancestor horses several centuries ago. I once read that a huge problem is that the breeding has produced thinner and thinner legs, which cannot tolerate the racing.
Many purebred dogs are likewise in dire straits because of the breeding.
As for backyard horses, they may still be around, but feeding a horse is so expensive that abandoned horses became a huge problem at least here in New Mexico during the Great Recession.
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)rationalize the fact that their entertainment is built on the foundation of lifetime brain injuries?
It is as bad...the fact that some humans are desperate for the attention does not excuse it.
Coventina
(27,101 posts)Humans are desperate for attention because they've prioritized that attention over their own safety.
That's a choice that they have made.
The horses are not given that choice.
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)is making a choice.
They are brainwashed.
Coventina
(27,101 posts)very specific, legally defined circumstances.
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)they start football as children...frequently pre-teen children.
so the decision was made BEFORE they were adults.
Coventina
(27,101 posts)The ones that don't make a CHOICE to continue.
Your assertion that football players are hypnotized zombies is absurd!
I worked with an NFL / Arena Football hopeful. He tried out for a number of teams, including going through professional training and practice games, etc.
He was extremely bright and was fully aware of the risks he was taking. To him, it was worth it because he loved the game and loved playing it.
He eventually quit trying out because he developed another health problem, unrelated to football, and had to accept that his playing days were over due to that.
Horses love to run, but they are NOT fully informed of the risks they are taking by "going pro". It is not the same at all.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)exercising free will and animals forced to perform but I can appreciate the view of those who feel both are wrong. And that being said, I cant watch sports like football or boxing. I still watch Formula1 but that has become amazingly safe since the Bad Old Days of multiple drivers being killed every season.
Coventina
(27,101 posts)I was unexpectedly moved by the news.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)he did manage to tear 40+ years right out of the Grim Reapers hands by dint of sheer bad-assery.
Coventina
(27,101 posts)changes in Formula 1 that make it such a safe sport now.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)in particular for male children, they brain maturity is even further lagging than female children.
Virtually all people who play football start as children.
They made the decision (or their parents made the decision for the child)....without the emotional or other capability to make an informed decision.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)and complicates the issue immensely. I wouldnt allow my children to play football. On the other hand my daughter plays full-contact roller derby, so I am perhaps a lesser parent than I would admit.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)Well, they live the good life while they are in training.
That one absolutely floored me.
I hate the idea of any animals being used for gambling sports. Whenever money is involved the animals lose.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)and after they stop winning, they are put down in many cases.
It's despicable.
Mendocino
(7,486 posts)rodeo, fishing tournaments, live pigeon shoots...the endless suffering of animals under the guise of sport.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)It seems like were coming to a tipping point with a lot of these things though. Perhaps a sea change is at hand.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Thoroughbreds are all descendants of 3 horses. We made them to run and they love to run and race.
Can and should we make it safer. Of course and it will have to happen.
But any riding of horses increases the chance of injury to the animal. Even trail riding has its risk, albeit much lower than horse racing.
I know I am in the vast minority on this thread, but I dont like the idea of not stating my views because I might get beat up.
With very few exception every horse breed was created by man for a specific purpose.
And unlike bullfighting the goal is not to harm the animal. Quite the opposite. Does it happen, sadly yes.
And since this is a political site wanted to point out horse back riding or even racing is not a partisan issue.
Demovictory9
(32,449 posts)Response to Codeine (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
marble falls
(57,077 posts)... and they seem eager to race. We always had horses and my sister was a rated hunt rider in Ohio.
One of her horses was Vray's Bid. Just a great thoroughbred who didn't make it in racing. He was a proud performer in the ring and in a five gaited competition, he'd have to be held back at the gallop or he'd try to race.
It's not the track or horses that's the dirty part: it's the trickery, "doctoring" , the insurance scamery, abuse and murder of horses by humans that is inhumane and sickening.