General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAttention Mueller: The people need to see it, hear it, not fucking read it.
It is now clear. Mueller is afraid, has been afraid through the whole process.
He was afraid to force Trump to testify. He was afraid to call it in his report and now he is afraid to testify in public. He is afraid to break any rule.
His excuses for not testifying in public are weak. Mueller has been a major disappointment.
If Mueller testifies in public millions of Americans will watch. It will be a big deal. It would change everything. People reading a transcript will not have the same effect.
There is still time for him to change his mind. Where have all the patriots gone?
standingtall
(2,785 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,568 posts)I suppose I could say it doesn't matter what Mueller found out/uncovered/put in his report, because Barr FUCKING BLOCKED it. So how do you know what Mueller did or didn't do?
kentuck
(111,079 posts)...put the pressure on him to return in public if there is a dispute about what he says.
Surely, there will be.
standingtall
(2,785 posts)because the transcripts will be misrepresented by republicans the same way his report was.
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)standingtall
(2,785 posts)because the republicans at the hearing will not be the only ones misrepresenting it. For starters Trump will misrepresent what the transcripts say and probably Barr too and not a single elected republican other than maybe Justin Amash will correct their lies.
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)Whatever it takes for Mueller to set the record straight is fine, IMO.
standingtall
(2,785 posts)after the public hears the truth directly from Mueller's lips. Plus the video clips of Mueller's testimony would be repeated on the news pretty frequently reinforcing the truth with the public in the face of Trump's lies.
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)...but if the best we can get is a transcript, it's better than no testimony at all.
kentuck
(111,079 posts)They need to lower the political temperature in order for people to hear.
Response to Dennis Donovan (Reply #19)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)So they would still complain and it would still have an effect. That's the point.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Nuggets
(525 posts)Americans need to see for themselves.
Response to standingtall (Reply #3)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)...i.e. politically affect anything going into 2020 by testifying in public.
If he wants to do it in private, and then have a transcript of the testimony released, I'm ok with it.
Nuggets
(525 posts)to summarize his report to America as no collusion, no obstruction.
He has allowed Trump to use his report to publicly exonerate himself.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Nuggets
(525 posts)AFAIC, thats allowing.
Has he made public statements otherwise?
He could easily say thats not what the report says without providing details. And if the boss wont allow it the you quit and publicly state why.
Hes not poor, in desperate need of a job.
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)He was protesting Barr's 4 page memo the day after.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-robert-muellers-letter-bill-barr
Nuggets
(525 posts)how thoroughly unimpressive.
Did not fully capture the nature?
He has a mouth he can use it. He can testify in front of the public to help aleve any of that confusion tater than adding to it hiding behind closed doors so that his words can be more easily misinterpreted. Like I said, body language and tones and inflections matter a lot.
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)...especially if they're lawyers.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)according to a former federal prosecutor that knew Mueller, it was the equivalent of Mueller standing outside DOJ and setting himself on fire, in his words
Nuggets
(525 posts)He might as well have given Barr a back rub.
Just like his statement in the report that says they found no evidence of conspiracy between Trumps campaign and the Russians. He never interviewed key people.
Btw Lawyers speak with the public all the time.
Your just doing his job with added subtle insult doesnt cut it.
Ill be ecstatically happy if Mueller ends up being nonpartisan and did a thorough job, though I dont see how he could without those key interviews.
Muellers actions are obviously being seen as political as he tries to come off as nonpartisan by hiding behind closed doors.
So hows this decision working out? Not well, and he has time to do the right thing.
Want to know what wont look partisan? The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in front of the American public.
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)No, that letter was not anything of the sort. It was very strongly worded for such a low-key guy like Director Mueller.
Nuggets
(525 posts)It was weak and Ive worked at corporate level and thus understand diplomacy in correspondence with authorities or higher ups. this letter Mueller wrote is so civil its unjust.
I cant believe the lengths people will go through to stifle any negative talk of Mueller.
Its irresponsible and it raises more red flags when adults cant discuss them.
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)Nuggets
(525 posts)because you support Mueller testifying behind closed doors, then yes. Its naive to think were not going to get a GOP shit show regardless of private or public testimony. Theres no reason to testify behind closed doors unless you have something to hide.
Response to Nuggets (Reply #122)
Dennis Donovan This message was self-deleted by its author.
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)...interesting.
kacekwl
(7,016 posts)Not opening your mouth is the same as supporting the lie. Sad.
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)In fact, you, too can see it by clicking on the link in my post.
Duppers
(28,120 posts)The summary letter the Department sent to Congress and released to the public late in the afternoon of March 24 did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance of this Offices work and conclusions, Mr. Mueller wrote in a letter addressed to Mr. Barr.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/opinion/barr-mueller-letter.htm
That "snitty" letter. Not many remember it and RW publications never published it. Besides, do wingers read... much?
Duppers
(28,120 posts)See how much impact a letter makes. Put him in front other of a televised camera.
sprinkleeninow
(20,237 posts)🤔 😏
Response to Nuggets (Reply #35)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,406 posts)It's not 2020 yet. And if it affects Trump politically, we deserve to know about it before he stands for re-election in 2020.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)Taraman
(373 posts)Maybe he's not up to the task.
I remember relying on Colin Powell as the only voice to stop the Iraqi War madness. He can do all the apology tours he wants for the rest of his life, but I'll never forget.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)jayschool2013
(2,312 posts)emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)Response to emmaverybo (Reply #8)
ChubbyStar This message was self-deleted by its author.
40RatRod
(532 posts)RKP5637
(67,104 posts)Americans have read it. IMO that is why Mueller needs to publicly discuss the report. Otherwise, it will not get out to the public in a meaningful way, because they will only get bits and drabs ... and interpreted versions like Barr did. This is too far important to let it pass.
standingtall
(2,785 posts)After Hilary was cleared he came out and gave a public speech calling her irresponsible. Then 11 days before the election he announced the investigation might be reopened and didn't say oh never mind until 3 days before the election.
I think by Mueller not testifying publicly he kind of his pulling a Comey in the sense that he is trying to placate republicans. Without his public testimony I don't see how this situation will turnout any different than when his report was released and misrepresented by Barr.
mopinko
(70,085 posts)before he answers a hot but simple question.
yes, we need him on the teevee, not another written report for teevee nation.
mitch96
(13,892 posts)When the cameras roll the actors come out.. I'm ok with it. Live, closed doors with the transcript what ever...
m
Americans need to see his testimony Americans need to see a Republican shit show and see them for who they are.
mitch96
(13,892 posts)Like I said, for me it's about the info not the show... I've got Netflix for that..
m
Response to mitch96 (Reply #47)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Nuggets
(525 posts)And if Republicans act out that will be telling too.
Harris made a complete fool out of Barr. Schiff shut them down on trying to shut down any more investigations. Dems have done well countering these narcissists.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... prepared for it.
Things are already political, that was always part of the assignment ... he should not have taken it if that is not what he wanted.
Nuggets
(525 posts)sop
(10,162 posts)Jordan (the guy who can't afford a suit jacket) and the rest of the Republicans would turn a public hearing into a complete shit show, with questions about Hillary, Benghazi, Comey, Spying, "his 18 angry Democrats," ad nauseum.
Cousin Dupree
(1,866 posts)Hes such a disappointment
shockey80
(4,379 posts)If there was no DOJ rule stating you cannot indict a sitting president. Would you have indicted the president?
Did AG Barr lie about your findings in the report? I am sure the democrats would have even better questions for Mueller.
Seeing Mueller answer questions live would change everything. I believe the whole dam country would watch.
Delmette2.0
(4,164 posts)And be ready to follow up for more information.
I feel like the Dems just leave it to each individual to come up with their own questions. Which is good up to a point, bit there needs to be a continuous thread of what needs to be brought out to the public.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)The problem is that it's very difficult to cover much in 5 minutes - and it's even more challenging to keep the focus of the public when they dig into a topic then have to yield to a Republican who purposely diverts and distracts from the previous line of questioning.
sop
(10,162 posts)- Did Barr order you to stop your investigation? Why?
- Did you believe it important to know if Trump was financially compromised by foreign interests? Why didn't you follow the the money?
- Did Rosenstein limit the scope of your inquiry and the ultimate report? Did you uncolver any information about Trump's foreign financial entanglements not included in your report? If so, who has that information?
LiberalFighter
(50,890 posts)People are not going to take time to read it.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)Few will ever read it IMO. And depending on which source they us, the info. could be full of distortions and half-truths, etc.
LiberalFighter
(50,890 posts)Saw it on tv and the news.
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)read in college, let alone reading more, but I did watch the TV for the hearings ... some of it.
shockey80
(4,379 posts)The Nixon tapes changed everything. The people woke up.
lark
(23,093 posts)Nuggets
(525 posts)His evasiveness makes no sense.
Taraman
(373 posts)who finds all this very repugnant.
So I ask you, Director Mueller, as an honorable man, will you do this for us? Will you tell the story to your fellow Americans?
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)The rethuglicons would make a circus out of a televised open session which would be unproductive.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)ananda
(28,858 posts)Nuff said.
Taraman
(373 posts)Are there none left?
mountain grammy
(26,619 posts)are evil!
Taraman
(373 posts)but I believe in ignorance and in redemption. Everyone is a work in progress. However, I am often disappointed...
Very disappointed lately.
Firestorm49
(4,032 posts)And especially right now when Trump is pulling another power play by giving Barr oversight over the intel. community.
This is getting downright scary. And despite the handwriting on our foreheads, we sit here fat, dumb, and happy and watch, and like me, bitch. Its time to take it to the streets in protest while we still can.
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)world wide wally
(21,740 posts)Boomerproud
(7,952 posts)He has already allowed the people he was investigating take over the narrative. Shame.
aeromanKC
(3,322 posts)thereby not allowing it to be made public. Can see it coming from here.
marlakay
(11,451 posts)Leak it if they did that. Dems are angry, beyond angry!
brooklynite
(94,503 posts)Bottom line, most people will never choose to watch a minute of Mueller's testimony, even if it's broadcast.
Ohioboy
(3,240 posts)Word is that Mueller doesn't want to testify because it will make things political. Well it's already political because of Barr. Mueller wouldn't be needing to testify if Barr hadn't misrepresented his report. Since Barr has distorted the truth for politics, Mueller needs to take the politics out and give us the truth. Mueller needs to stand up for his country and stop these lying scum bags.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... whatever he was going to say was going to be political.
Disappointed
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,674 posts)his testimony will be televised, allowing the GOP to throw shit and grandstand for their base.
Takket
(21,561 posts)Who sets his cruise control so he doesnt accidentally go 26 in a 25 zone. Except right now he is trying not to speed while a tornado is beating down on him from behind.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)StarzGuy
(254 posts)...from an obvious republican? So sad that this guy was given the task of investigating their own. The patriots are us, we must insist that Muller give his testimony in public and let the facts fall as they may.
I've hated this from the get go. I really didn't expect much from the Muller report and all the misinformation by Barr and his cronies in the first place. Our country is under attack by the treasonous moron pResident, the repuke party and Putin's mob crime syndicate.
We can not wait for the next election. Impeach pResident will set a standard that we will no longer put up with this.
Paladin
(28,252 posts)The first half-dozen times he did it, his enablers had some sort of legal justification. That doesn't cut it, any more. We need his full-scale help in preventing trump from dismembering this country---and that help is not forthcoming from him. Enough, already.
It's just like Jeff Daniels said on MSNBC a few days ago: We are in desperate need of a hero, here and now. Mueller or somebody on his staff needs to walk an unredacted copy of his report over to the Washington Post and/or the NY Times, and let the chips fall where they may.
sprinkleeninow
(20,237 posts)+1
GemDigger
(4,305 posts)something so important. The audio is also online for people who are too lazy to read it but if they are too lazy to listen to it then that is a problem with the people not Mueller.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5955249-Report.html
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)And if they're too lazy to read it, they probably don't have the attention span to watch the whole thing and digest it intelligently. And the last thing we need is to base our moves on people who respond to Mueller's testimony because they like his looks or don't like the way he sounds ...
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,674 posts)Maybe I'll ask.
GemDigger
(4,305 posts)I have thought about that as well, maybe you should ask. Nodding my head.
Edit: Would they have the courage to answer honestly though?
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)And they're also the ones for whom Mueller's testimony will make the least difference since they're sure they already know all the facts and aren't interested in actually learning anything new but just want to be entertained with a show.
GemDigger
(4,305 posts)Poiuyt
(18,122 posts)While it is understandable, it is VERY dense reading.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,674 posts)you'd think they'd make the effort to read the thing instead of just griping and whining. I thought it was fascinating.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)people would criticize him for being "boring."
I used to often say that reality television was the death of civilization as we knew it. I meant that it was a slow degradation of standards and art, but had no idea weed find ourself being governed by an out-of-control reality show star who is literally damaging our civilization.
And now we're seeing evidence of another downside of a reality show environment as people expect serious matters like governments and congressional oversight to be spoonfed to them like the latest episode of "Survivor."
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,674 posts)And if it's in a 450-page book it's toooo haaard! And I don't wanna reead! And why isn't it on YouTube so I can watch it on my phone?
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)read a transcript?
We deserve the TRUTH!
But we deserve to have it spoonfed to us because reading is hard!
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)Everything in tweet bites, that is the only thing many Americans can handle. The lack of intellect and curiosity in this country is more than alarming. I agree, unless he testifies, and people can sit in their lounge chairs eating cheetos watching it on tv, it will never see the light of day.
I also agree he is scared. There is something very sinister going on right now and I don't think any of us know what that is but we had better get smart quickly or we are going to lose our country to the rich and powerful nuts in this country.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)are likely to make any intelligent assessment of the information presents in his testimony?
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)with what was going on, they could read and comprehend the issues presented to them. I don't think many Americans today have that capability. I agree that those who can't do it cannot assess the information, but the only way they will even see it is if it presented in small bites on tv and twitter.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)on Twitter and television. He'll be quoted, people will be talking about it, discussing it, dissecting it, picking apart every word, repeating what he said. I
We're not talking about either he testifies live or people must personally read the whole transcript or they'll be completely in the dark.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,674 posts)from truncated answers to five minutes of tendentious questions posed by GOPers wanting to create sound bites to be broadcast on Fox for their rabid base.
GOP Rep: "You're a Democrat, aren't you?"
Mueller: "No, I'm..."
GOP Rep: "You were Barack Obama's FBI Director, weren't you?"
Mueller: "Yes, but I..."
GOP Rep: "Appointed by a Democrat president, correct?"
Mueller: "Yes, but..."
GOP Rep: "So you're a Democrat. Moving along, isn't it true that you didn't investigate Hillary Clinton while you were acting as Special Counsel?"
Mueller: "No, we didn't, but that's because...
GOP Rep: "And you didn't fire Peter Strzok or Lisa Page even though they were working on the investigation and stated in emails how much they opposed President Trump?"
Mueller: "No. I took them off the investigation."
GOP Rep: "But you didn't fire these two conflicted Democrats!"
Mueller: "No, it wasn't necessary..."
GOP Rep: "So, you thought it was just fine to have conflicted Democrats working for the FBI?"
Mueller: "That's not what..."
GOP Rep: "My time is up; that's all the questions I have."
And so forth.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)That's exactly what would happen.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,674 posts)donkeypoofed
(2,187 posts)The majority of Americans wouldn't be reading your fucken transcript- so now sit down and start talking!!🤬
Politicub
(12,165 posts)And then ask celebrities to do a live-streamed table read.
Dustin Lance Black raised awareness of the backdrop of the Prop 8 marriage equality decision in this way. It was powerful to see the stories of discrimination that the plaintiffs endured.
The Mueller report is jaw dropping in how it describes how Russians worked to affect elections, how Trump appointees tried to collaborate with Russians after Trump took office, and how Trump attempted to obstruct justice at every turn. The report left me shook. It makes me angry that Russian interference has been swept under the rug.
Dramatizing part 1 of volume 1 (election interference, coordination with Wikileaks, etc) alone would be a great play.
CaptainTruth
(6,588 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,674 posts)The same people who read the report would watch the testimony - politics nerds like us. Most people wouldn't watch anyhow. Mueller isn't afraid; he's testified in public many times. But he doesn't want to give the questioners a chance to grandstand, which you can bet your ass the GOPers would do, providing more red meat for Trump's base to gnaw on. I'd like to see his live testimony, but if the cost of that would be providing the GOPers an opportunity to fling shit like a cage full of monkeys, I'm satisfied with a public opening statement and a complete transcript.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)shockey80
(4,379 posts)Everyone would see it.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,674 posts)to inflame the base and bolster Trump's message that Mueller is part of the "deep state" that's trying to destroy him. Avoiding the enabling of more of Trump's propaganda is a good reason not to televise the testimony.
shockey80
(4,379 posts)It does not matter what the Republicans say. All that matters is what Mueller says live on TV, under oath. The fear has to end in this country.
All I hear from everyone is we can't do this because this might happen. It's all fear.
DallasNE
(7,402 posts)Especially for Fox viewers. With transcripts all they will see is things that do no damage, like the Nixon edited transcripts. The cover up will be completed. And Mueller must realize this too. The constant bullying has been highly successful.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)DallasNE
(7,402 posts)Even 5% of them would be enough to cause great damage to his reelection efforts. And viewers of other networks would see some movement too. But, bottom line, it is the right thing to do in the name of transparency.
Turin_C3PO
(13,964 posts)But I can understand his thinking too; that the KGOP would grandstand and throw mud at him in order to create sound bites for their deplorable base. Ill be satisfied with a complete transcript of the testimony.
Catherine Vincent
(34,488 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)he is giving in to Trump. Trump has been trying to make it political since the start, and it looks like by not testifying in public, he is giving in to Trump.
moondust
(19,972 posts)Trumpanzees, some of whom may be dangerous. (See: Cesar Sayoc, others) Mueller may be concerned about what some of them might do if they watch him tell all in plain English on the teevee machine.
Just a possibility.
empedocles
(15,751 posts)It's bothersome to read casual descriptions of these great justice fighters, being called with trump-like shallow labels as 'afraid' and 'timid' - by short term opiners with a small fraction of the understanding of what is going on in these wars.
shockey80
(4,379 posts)He is winning because of fear. The Trump presidency should have ended with the release of the Mueller report. Things got worse.
empedocles
(15,751 posts)As a strategist, Pelosi is not going to tip her hand more than she has to. Pelosi, like most successful over time politicians, has to plan and work on two opposed fronts.
shockey80
(4,379 posts)To put it bluntly, he has fucked up and he needs to set shit right.
shockey80
(4,379 posts)Mueller is the only one that can put an end to Trumps lying. He must testify in public period. If he doesn't Trump wins.
empedocles
(15,751 posts)There have been a surprising? number of big hits: pussy grabbing, trump's own collusion confessions on network tv, Manafort conviction, guilty pleas of key trumpers, quotes from the barr Mueller report, etc., etc.
Mueller's live testimony might well lock in the numbers to assure Impeachment vote in the House, and probably move the needle at least somewhat on trump's polls, - but in light of the past 2 years, no KO/TKO.
Imo, as the trump criminality evidence compounds, especially the traitor evidence, trump will be in deeper trouble. Then, trump may go beyond taunting the Dem base for Impeachment, and go all out to bring on Impeachment sooner than Pelosi would, as his best chance to survive, before his support declines further. Pelosi and Mueller have been strong strategic thinkers.
spanone
(135,826 posts)and if you refuse his subpoena you will be immediately jailed.
msongs
(67,395 posts)or do something theyve never done in history like fling political poo. can't have that now can we?
RichardRay
(2,611 posts)...you get what you deserve. Pass a quiz on the contents of the report as published, then ask questions or make comments. If you cant read, it available (for free) at Audible.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)have never even read the fucking Constitution, much less anything as comparatively arcane as the Mueller Report.
Response to shockey80 (Original post)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)He's willing to testify in front of House Cmt's, in closed session...to keep private, that material, that by law, must be kept private.
There was a post here about who had read the Report....I was shocked by those that said no
Some witnesses have a right to privacy. Many investigative procedures need to stay secret. 6E info can't be without a Court order...
It's not up to Mueller.....there's Law
Millions aren't going to watch...It's not American Idol.