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Sat May 25, 2019, 01:54 PM

There's a time window for Impeachment. "Tactics" may be germane within it, but that window is short

Those who think Democrats can and should first exhaust all preliminary moves in order to build the strongest possible legal and political case against Trump before moving on to Impeachment are deluding themselves about the shelf live of impeachment if they are not keeping a careful eye on the clock. It is often said Trump is trying to run out the clock by tying up Congressional efforts at oversight of his Administration until after the 2020 elections. But there are also some among elected Democrats who want to muffle the calls for Trump's impeachment long enough so that the electoral clock runs out on that option as well. I do not claim to know whether Nancy Pelosi falls within that latter group.

The impeachment window will not remain open indefinitely while Democrats seek court help in compelling witnesses to appear before House investigative committees. Any strategy that starts with the premise that the public will be better primed for impeachment after watching a number of televised hearings, featuring several key Trump associates being forced to spill the dirt under penalty of perjury, goes bust if those witnesses are not forced to appear in a timely enough manner. The exact same holds true regarding the findings of other ongoing investigations into Trump's behavior taking place on a number of State and Federal fronts. These too could strengthen the case for Trump's impeachment, but that point would become moot once the 2020 presidential campaign is in full swing.

Someone more adept at actual political science and with more familiarity with the Congressional schedule than me can probably nail down the literal impeachment window more precisely, but I figure it closes sometime this Fall if it has not been triggered by then. Impeachment is a formal constitutional process outlined as a remedy when a presidency becomes toxic to our democracy and/or security. It was not foreseen as a partisan political weapon. It will not be deployed during the heat of the most high profile and partisan part of America's political cycle. If impeachment is not already underway months before the first primary votes are cast the book will close on that option.

Some Democrats want the book to closed on the impeachment option, others may be gaming out how many weeks or month we have left to allow the plot thicken before we formally "go there." Those Democrats who believe that impeaching Trump is unwise have sincere reasons for that viewpoint. But I suspect there's some shadow boxing going on. Some who claim to be undecided on impeachment probably are waiting for the optimal time to call for it. Some who claim to be undecided on impeachment probably are waiting on enough calendar pages to turn over so that they can say "it is too close to the election now to proceed" Others are quite literally undecided, but the clock is ticking for all of us.

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Arrow 14 replies Author Time Post
Reply There's a time window for Impeachment. "Tactics" may be germane within it, but that window is short (Original post)
Tom Rinaldo May 2019 OP
UniteFightBack May 2019 #1
targetpractice May 2019 #2
crazytown May 2019 #5
Trumpocalypse May 2019 #3
4139 May 2019 #4
Tom Rinaldo May 2019 #12
4139 May 2019 #13
StarfishSaver May 2019 #6
earthshine May 2019 #7
beachbum bob May 2019 #8
Wellstone ruled May 2019 #9
fallrey May 2019 #10
fallrey May 2019 #11
StarfishSaver May 2019 #14

Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Sat May 25, 2019, 01:54 PM

1. It's the end of May....we have time. nt

 

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Sat May 25, 2019, 01:56 PM

2. Q: If the House votes for impeachment...

...Must the Senate take up a trial? Or, can McConnell refuse to hold a trial?

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Response to targetpractice (Reply #2)

Sat May 25, 2019, 02:13 PM

5. Ah Ha!

The Senate is no more obliged to hold a trial than conduct a confirmation hearing,

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Sat May 25, 2019, 02:05 PM

3. There is no window for Impeachment

 

That is a fallacy.

A rush to impeachment before the case is made to the public will fail on every level. That's the mistake the republicans made with the Clinton impeachment. The Watergate model is what is needed to be followed. It is slower but in the end far more effective.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Sat May 25, 2019, 02:11 PM

4. House must take it up in June AND FINISH BY mid-SEPTEMBER

Any later than that then ‘they’re just doing it for 2020 election’ wins the argument.

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Response to 4139 (Reply #4)

Sun May 26, 2019, 11:12 AM

12. My point in a nutshell, though I think it could still work if it started in mid-september

Which is still over a full year out from the actual election.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #12)

Sun May 26, 2019, 11:40 AM

13. Our Debates start in June, if there are 3-4 debates before impeach hearing begin it will

Last edited Sun May 26, 2019, 02:12 PM - Edit history (1)

Look like it’s all about 2020.

The candidates will likely asked about impeachment at the first debate and the second debate... it will make look like it’s all about 2020

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Sat May 25, 2019, 02:30 PM

6. Building a legal case isn't delusional. It's imperative

Those who think Democrats can and should first exhaust all preliminary moves in order to build the strongest possible legal and political case against Trump before moving on to Impeachment are deluding themselves."


It is absolutely necessary, indeed critical to "exhaust all preliminary moves" not just to build the strongest legal car, but to build any legal case capable of prevailing in the courts.

On of the only reasons Congress was able to score three major victories last week in the courts (the accountants' financial records, Deutsche Bank records, and the wall emergency funding) is that they took their time and exhausted their extra-judicial remedies before taking their cases to court. Had they not done so, they would have been sent packing to go do their homework before wasting any more of the courts' time, regardless how strong their cases may have been on substantive grounds.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Sat May 25, 2019, 02:31 PM

7. Nancy Pelosi is "keeping her powder dry" while pursuing smaller options.

 

The problem is that the "powder" gets moist and less effective with age.

"Powder" is a metaphor for "power."

I'm for some more delay in the process -- because Trump is self-destructing -- but not much more.

"Never interfere with the enemy when he is in the process of destroying himself." -- Napoleon

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Sat May 25, 2019, 02:44 PM

8. No window at all. Make GOP defend trump for 2020 election, we outnumber

 

those motherf*ckers and our anger is only building.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Sat May 25, 2019, 03:28 PM

9. October is the unoffical start of the

 

2020 campaign season. The Speaker is forcing the Rethug Establishment to defend not only their reelection of their seated Candidates,but also Trump. With every passing day,the Rethug Brand grows much more ugly and the Public is not dumb as to what is happening in real time.


We are in false economy that is on the verge of explosion. Friday's GOP vote to kill off disaster Funding did not go unnoticed by the Red Stater's who were the most effected. Oh,as for that Farm Bailout,do not hold your breath on that one.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Sat May 25, 2019, 03:55 PM

10. I agree that delay is a mistake

This is the moment to address the undermining of our way of government by this administration. If we let it go, don't focus hearings, don't get maximal Congressional powers to conduct them by making them impeachment inquiry hearings, forgo a major platform to inform the public, then we aren't paving the way to reasserting a democracy. Democrats have failed to press the issue before, with elections like Al Gore's and John Kerry's, and with other matters, and that hasn't worked out well. Speaking as one person, I think we are right on the brink of being too late on opening an impeachment inquiry. If the House acts after Memorial Day, ok. If not, it will feel like a tragic error either in judgement or in what I'm not sure. Because our whole ship is now off course and could fail. None of us can really know what will happen with an impeachment inquiry. But I think I already have had it with Democrats being weak in the face of an onslaught. We went all out in the midterms to put the House in a position to effect change. They've passed a lot of legislation that can't get past the Senate. Nice show. The public knows a little about that, but not enough to carry the day, and it shouldn't carry the day. Because I don't know about you, but I worked in the midterms to stop the sinking of our democracy into autocracy/oligarchic dictatorship. There is a mandate for that. If the case for the need to act hasn't yet been made, then open an impeachment inquiry and make that case.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Original post)

Sat May 25, 2019, 04:13 PM

11. Why is this agreement a good idea?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/25/politics/trump-house-committee-agreement-stay-subpoena/index.html

We keep giving in. Probably because we are afraid to lose and want to negotiate even if it means conceding illegalities.

This is just so upsetting. Trump gets to postpone on a promise, even though his m.o. is to break agreements. He's running out the clock. Are Dems so worried about getting blamed that they will risk making House powers moot in favor of trying to get the courts to take responsibility?

(CNN)Lawyers for President Donald Trump have reached an agreement with the House Intelligence and Financial Services committees to hold off for now on enforcing the subpoenas for Trump's financial records from Deutsche Bank and Capital One, according to a court document and a source familiar with the agreement.
Similar to a deal reached earlier this week with the House Oversight committee, the agreement allows for an expedited appeal schedule.
"The parties have reached an agreement regarding compliance with and enforcement of the subpoenas during the pendency of Plaintiff's appeal," the court document filed Saturday reads.
Earlier this week, Judge Edgardo Ramos in New York had refused to block the subpoenas, setting off a one-week clock for the Trump team to find a way to prevent extensive financial information from being released. The agreement blocks the subpoenas for now until an appeals court can weigh in.

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Response to fallrey (Reply #11)

Sun May 26, 2019, 11:55 AM

14. Because it will expedite the appeal

Otherwise, it would be too easy for Trump's lawyers to delay the decision for weeks, if not months.

This is smart strategy by the congressional lawyers. They know what they're doing.

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