General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJust about every Memorial Day I have made an OP like this one. I did not fight in
Vietnam for your freedom. I fought to keep myself and my friends brothers alive.
The thank you for your service messages started after the Wall was built in Washington. I am glad for the change in tone toward us Vietnam vets because before the Wall we were not treated well.
Yet to thank me for fighting for your freedom is to not recognize that the Vietnam war as are Iraq and Afghanistan wars not about our freedom. They were wars of opportunity and never should have happened.
So we go on year after year lying to ourselves because we cant admit that we are not fighting for honor and glory and a just cause. We need to tell ourselves that we do.
rzemanfl
(29,556 posts)Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)My older brother was called up, but had an extra bone in his foot, and didn't have to serve. Interestingly, our father (WW2) and grandfather (WW1) also had that "extra bone" (per their enlistment records), but both had to fight in their respective wars.
Thank you for this OP.
3Hotdogs
(12,365 posts)"War is a Racket."
There should be a movie about him.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)I would certainly like to see more about him.
Dennis Donovan
(18,770 posts)The Business Plot was an alleged political conspiracy in 1933 in the United States. Retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler claimed that wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans' organization with Butler as its leader and use it in a coup d'état to overthrow President Franklin D. Roosevelt. In 1934, Butler testified before the United States House of Representatives Special Committee on Un-American Activities (the "McCormack-Dickstein Committee" on these claims. No one was prosecuted.
At the time of the incidents, news media dismissed the plot, with a New York Times editorial characterizing it as a "gigantic hoax". While historians have questioned whether or not a coup was actually close to execution, most agree that some sort of "wild scheme" was contemplated and discussed.
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FakeNoose
(32,618 posts)I was a Vietnam War protester. As a woman I didn't have to worry about getting drafted, but that didn't blind me from seeing how wrong that war was. America's freedom was never at stake in Vietnam.
Why did so many lives have be destroyed when only a few companies profited? Why did the United States feel it was necessary to prop up an evil, corrupt government in South Vietnam for the sole reason that they weren't communist? If the Vietnamese people voted for communism, if they elected Ho Chi Min to be their leader, who were we to say they can't have him? It was all so wrong. But I never disrespected the young men (boys my own age) who were sent to fight in that horrible war.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)One of my favorite songs in the 60s had this verse:
A sad old soldier once told me a story
About a battlefield that he was on
He said a man should never fight for glory
He must know what is right and what is wrong.
My Uncle -- Chris Hillman, Gram Parsons
Vietnam was a tough time, barely 20 years from WWII. I have the upmost respect for those drafted into that war and those who joined up to keep from being drafted (I was in that process -- #31 -- when the draft ended).
Similarly, I respect those who realized all the gung ho crud from WWII was not the truth of VN (or Iraq, etc.). I consider John Kerry a hero for coming home and speaking up. But, the "I risked my life for your freedom crowd", get little respect from me (maybe some sympathy).
I do think the way those returning from Vietnam were treated was uncalled for and almost criminal, even if they weren't drafted. Patriotism, the "irrational" fear of communism at the time, greed, etc., lead a lot of people into our Military Industrial Complex and attempts to militarily dominate the world.
Martin Eden
(12,862 posts)... and shout SUPPORT OUR TROOPS.
When, in fact, they are doing the EXACT OPPOSITE.
Sending our young people to be killed or maimed for the lies of politicians and the profits of the military industrial complex is a criminal abuse of power and the antithesis of true patriotism.
Memorial Day does indeed belong to members of our armed services who made the ultimate sacrifice.
To properly honor those lives and give meaning to this day, we must be ever vigilant in our duty as informed citizens to hold our government officials accountable to ensure that lives are not sacrificed in vain.
TimeToGo
(1,366 posts)Yes, but it isn't Veterans Day. Memorial Day honors those who died . That's important, and I resist the idea that it's about veterans. We have that day.
I am a veteran.
But, this is different.
Death. Memorial Day is about dying. Dying in service to the country. War comes with death and we need to remember that always.
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)be alive
And the veteran suicides to come will not have happened.
No it is not about us living vets its about us living who have the ability to talk about it. The dead cant speak from the grave.
TimeToGo
(1,366 posts)Dutchman99
(4 posts)I spent more than one year in Vietnam ('68-'69)... I was not fighting for anyone's freedom. I was fighting in an illegitimate undeclared war solely because I was a scared shitless 19 year old who was drafted while others got deferred with bone spurs. The same is essentially true for the Korean "Conflict" (WAR) and the undeclared wars in Iraq and Afghanistan... the first was to validate a total and complete George Bush lie and the second because the US had to kick somebody's ass after 9/11. Both of those wars escalated violence and terrorism and have NOTHING to keep the US "free".
Hekate
(90,627 posts)Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)
HopeAgain This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to wasupaloopa (Original post)
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Hekate
(90,627 posts)"The old lie: Dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori "
Hekate
(90,627 posts)Wilfred Owen - 1893-1918
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.
Gas! Gas! Quick, boys!An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime...
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
Aristus
(66,310 posts)And when they do, we become so indignant. "How dare they fight back just because we invaded their country!!! Don't they know we're liberating them? They're all just a bunch of terrorists!"
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Memorial Day is for remembering and honoring people who have died while serving. Regardless of the politics, we should honor all who gave everything.
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)They cant
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Beringia
(4,316 posts)akraven
(1,975 posts)I got your back.