If you really want impeachment to start now, here's my humble advice for helping to make that happen

[StarfishSaver]

1. Stop yelling at Nancy Pelosi, calling House Democrats "weak" or "cowards" and accusing them of "doing nothing"

First, they're not doing "nothing" - they're doing plenty. They're neither being weak nor cowardly. They're trying to get this right - and, if they don't, the people who are fussing at them will be the first to pile on because "they did it wrong."

And beating up on Nancy Pelosi gets you nowhere. She's not the problem. If she had the numbers and support, she'd probably be all over impeachment now. But she knows the landscape she's operating on and knows that she doesn't yet have the votes needed to move this. So, she's probably taking the hits in order to give time and space some members of her caucus need to get where you want them to be. Most members who don't publicly support impeachment aren't there yet because their constituents don't support it. Going after Pelosi won't change that and doesn't help anything.

2. Call your senators and representative and urge them to support impeachment. If they already support them, thank them and ask what you can do to help them convince their colleagues. But don't call Nancy Pelosi. It's a waste of time since she's not the one you need to convince.

3. Urge other people you know who want impeachment to also call THEIR senators and representatives.

4. Read the Mueller Report. The whole thing, footnotes and all, so you actually know firsthand what it says - not just what you HEARD it says.

5. Take that knowledge and share it with your friends, family, colleagues and neighbors. Educate them so they know what's actually in it (not just what they heard), answer their questions, and correct their misimpressions.

6. Work on educating people beyond your friends and acquaintances. Write letters to the editor, call in to radio shows, organize community forums, etc.

We can all take the constructive steps to move toward impeachment sooner than later. Ranting and venting is fine and we all need to do it at times, but unless you're going the next step and actually helping to work the problem, you're simply exacerbating it.

Please - do something positive if you want to help make this happen!

[medyhar]

1. I want an impeachment inquiry

It would really be the same as now, except there is a greater chance judges would rule in the House's favor.

I just don't think Pelosi wants to do impeachment at all, and is stalling to try to prevent it.

[StarfishSaver]

2. Besides blaming Pelosi, what are YOU doing to try to make it happen?

[watoos]

41. Pelosi and my red neck rep work for me

I served 2 terms in local government and got paid 20 dollars a month.
1 Congressman held town hall meeting and laid out he laid out a step by step plan for impeachment.That 1 Congressman was Republican Justin Amash. Amash also Tweeted today, the ball is in our court Congress let’s act.

[popsdenver]

60. I tend to agree

At lease by impeaching him and keeping the testifying going until the 2020 election we may accomplish something.
It will keep the matter in the headlines in front of the people.

The Democrats in congress know that it is mute with the Repub Senate doing the actually voting on the outcome, but at least we need to do something, rather than just allowing things to cruise along being directed entirely by the Repubs in the Senate and the Republican Party. (screw trump, he is just a pawn)

Remember that even if he were impeached, we would just get Pence and the same Republican Senate carrying on their current Republican Oligarchy agenda with no interruption at all.........And without Pence shooting his mouth off every day and doing things against the law in his personal life, they can keep him in power for eight years. (or more if they vote to get rid of that pesky amendment limiting his term)

[StarfishSaver]

63. How do you "impeach him and keep the testifying going" until the 2020 election?

Once started, the impeachment process won't take that long. Nixon's impeachment inquiry lasted less than 6 months - the hearings only last two months and weren't held in public. Clinton's impeachment took less than a month.

Once impeachment occurs, it will be done and out of the public mind within a few months.

[58Sunliner]

97. Wrong. Clinton was investigated for several years- from 1994 to 1998.

Which is what happens prior to the actual vote-it's part of the process. Starr then outlined 11 possible grounds for impeachment in his report, after which the house took a vote to publicize the report and in October 1998, voted for impeachment. Nixon's impeachment inquiry actually started in 1972 and in 05/73' the Watergate hearings were televised. October is the Saturday night massacre. Nixon is not actually impeached until 1974. Once again, false analogies.
I thought you were an expert?

[StarfishSaver]

102. You need to do some research about impeachment

You don't seem to understand the process or the history. Or maybe you're just woefully confused.

Either way, let me help you out.

Nixon's impeachment inquiry didn't begin in 1972. It began in February 1974 when the House of Representatives voted to authorize the Judiciary Committee to open an impeachment inquiry. The Judiciary Committee voted out Articles of Impeachment in late July, but they were never voted on by the full House because Nixon resigned. Contrary to your belief, Nixon was not impeached.

Clinton's impeachment inquiry didn't begin in 1994. And the House didn't "vote for impeachment" in October 1998. That's when the House voted to authorized the Judiciary Committee to investigate whether there were sufficient grounds for impeachment. The Committee held hearings and on December 11, approved three Articles of Impeachment. On December 19, 1998, the full House impeached Clinton on two of those articles.

Another FYI: investigating a president is not the same as an impeachment, nor does authorizing an impeachment inquiry constitute impeachment.

Interestingly, under your incorrect notions of the impeachment process - particularly your assumption that an investigation is an impeachment inquiry, the Democrats have already launched an impeachment inquiry of Trump since they have several investigations into several areas of his business and political activities going on right now. But, if that were the case, there'd no basis for hammering Speaker Pelosi for not starting an impeachment process, would there?

[EffieBlack]

103. She actually IS an expert

You, not so much ...

Instead of trying to lecture her (with snark, no less - lol), you should pay attention to what she’s telling you. You could actually learn something.

[Hortensis]

56. Excellent, sensible advice.

[medyhar]

3. Letters

I wrote to 13 members of Congress to demand the start of an impeachment inquiry.

But I can't imagine they'll listen to me rather than the Speaker.

[NewJeffCT]

24. Contacting your representative is the most important

they pay more attention to people in their district so you may vote for them. Even if they're a Republican, you never know, they could be the next Justin Amash.

[demtenjeep]

26. naw not mine. Pat Roberts, Jerry Moran, Roger Marshal and Ron Estes

I am totally fucked

[StarfishSaver]

32. Write to them anyway.

One of the reasons they get away with their crap is they only here from the people who agree with them. They need to also hear from everyone else. It may not make a difference, but at least out pressure on then so they know where ALL of their constituents are coming from, not just the ones who agree with them!

[WhiteTara]

98. Yes, mine are all red too; but they need to hear from us anyway

If we don't call then they can say that no one in their district cares. So, all the more reason for us to call our critters daily and get everyone we know to call them too.
I call the DC office and then I call all the local offices too and let each office know what I'm calling about. It takes a bit more time but all the offices then have to tally that call.

[StarfishSaver]

30. Writing to random reps doesn't work. Writing to YOURS does

Focus on them!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. But it's so much easier to log on to DU and whine.

[StarfishSaver]

5. Sigh - yes, so I've learned

But a girl can always hope.

[Skittles]

7. how do you know what people are doing?

are you assuming people only "log on and whine"?

[TwilightZone]

11. Some do.

As they always have. There's always been a rotating contingent of a few vocal posters who do little else but denigrate Democrats, which I think qualifies as "log on and whine". The names change, but they've been around as long as the site's been here.

[Skittles]

51. how do we know you do anything?

stop assuming

[TwilightZone]

53. Observation.

If the same few names show up on dozens of threads and the only message each time is some form of "Dems are weak", it's not difficult to conclude the motivations behind them. Some of them get a little too obvious about it and are PPR'd. Some of them know a little better how to navigate the border.

It's not complicated. They've always been here. They're here now. They'll always be here.

[Skittles]

90. peg them as trolls and put them on Ignore

stop assuming people interested in a political board are doing nothing besides "whining"

[emmaverybo]

6. Such an educational and excellent post. We are not helpless! nt

[pazzyanne]

8. Thank you, StarfishSaver,

for the detailed call to action for Democrats everywhere. Action is worth a thousand words. Let's get crackin'.

[TwilightZone]

9. #1 is getting really, really old.

At this point, I have to presume that some of the posters who post nothing but the "weak" and "coward" shit are trolls. Their incessant drumbeat of that nonsense is tiresome and ignorant.

[wryter2000]

17. They sure act like trolls

Otherwise, why would they come onto "Democratic Underground" to denigrate Democrats?

[emmaverybo]

104. There is something to this. nt

[Politicub]

62. It makes me grateful for the ignore function.

They make it easy to weed them out.

And, after years on DU, I don't feel like I've missed out on anything because of it. If anything, my experience became far better once I started ignoring people that are obviously here to disrupt or do useless things like call for Pelosi's resignation.

[OKNancy]

10. My one and only reservation about impeachment

He's impeached, tried, found not guilty... and then he wins in 2020.
He will be unrestrained. You think he's bad now? It would be a nightmare.

[lunatica]

89. We could not impeach and he wins in 2020

How is that worse?

The part we really don’t want for sure is him winning in 2020. Impeachment would be a great talking point for Democratic candidates. What we can bank on in the Presidential elections is that no Democrats will ever vote for him, and even if all the MAGATS voted for him, which is not a given, we would win. This is not Nixon’s or Bill Clinton’s impeachment. Not even close.

[emmaverybo]

105. Gawd. There's that. nt

[ancianita]

12. Thank you! People need constant reminding that they must delay their gratifications like adults.

People contribute too much noise when we need unified focus.

That focus helps others in social media to focus so that public poll numbers that support impeachment go up, as they're trending right now.

You're the best. Hang tough and stay clear.

[Mersky]

13. K & R!!!

[mcar]

14. Wish I could rec this 10000 times

[Mr. Evil]

15. "If she had the numbers and support, she'd probably be all over impeachment now."

Deciding to initiate impeachment proceedings should never hinge on whether or not "the numbers" are there. It is a constitutional duty, plain and simple, if a president has been deemed to be corrupt, etc. to begin impeachment. Not to wait for some sort of polling results. Trump benefited from Russian interference and he even actively sought their assistance in doing so. Did the Republicans wait for the correct numbers in initiating impeachment proceedings against President Clinton? Hell no. They went for it. Right or wrong, they didn't waste any time waffling about it. Trump, on his best day, is a million times worse than President Clinton ever was on his worst. This is not about political gamesmanship. It is a constitutional duty to address Trump's litany of egregious activities. One of which is seeking and accepting help from a foreign adversary. There are probably thousands of others. We also have the truth on our side. That's something the Republicans haven't had a passing relationship with in decades. Enough of the TV dog and pony show and strong letter writing campaign. It's time, right now, to impeach President Freakshow!

[pdsimdars]

18. You got that right! That's what voters don't like. We want people of principle.

[StarfishSaver]

23. People want their representatives to do what they want them to do

Lots of Republicans are operating based on their principles, even if a majority opposes them - we don't think that's such a good thing.

[StarfishSaver]

22. It's a combination of both

They need to do the right thing, but in order to do it, they need to build public support - otherwise it won't serve any purpose except make people feel good on the day the impeachment proceedings start only to go downhill from there.

I understand what you're saying, but part of governing effectively is to include a consideration. Of "the numbers," i.e., what the people you represent want. It isn't the sole consideration, but it's an important one.

It's interesting that many people insist that Pelosi launch impeachment because this poll or that shows support, but when it's pointed out that the numbers aren't there, the retort is "numbers be damned They should do it because it's the right thing!". What they really mean is that it should happen because it's what THEY want - and I don't doubt that they wouldn't be so quick to accept Pelosi saying "the people aren't behind it but it's the right thing to do" to push through something they didn't want.

[Eyeball_Kid]

34. In the Nixon hearings,

the increase in support for impeachment came DURING the hearings. The same can happen now.

[StarfishSaver]

40. Those hearings occurred well before the impeachment process started

The impeachment hearings started until long after the hearings you're thinking about. But the impeachment hearings weren't televised.

[Mr. Evil]

46. Yeah, I get what you're saying but,

I think so much more information will come out about Trump's activities and those of others criminally benefiting from his presidency through the impeachment process. Then it would be on the Senate to show their true colors by excusing proven crimes. I don't think that would be a good look for them.

I have to admit though, that I am, more so than not, becoming a victim to my own frustrations because of this enduring national shitshow. We have the capability of having such a better society where people are much less inclined to denigrate each other over basically nothing if it weren't for the rampant corruption in our government. Mitch McConnell is actively hindering and/or ignoring good legislation from the Democratically controlled House. The republican senate does nothing and serves no useful purpose except to further line the pockets of their benefactors. It's embarrassing and sickening.

[StarfishSaver]

66. That's where we differ

Contrary to the rosy picture some people paint of impeachment proceedings, I fear that opening an impeachment inquiry right now will make it more difficult for information to get out.

I think it's critical for the multiple committees to do their work right now and investigate and gather a large volume of diverse information on many fronts. THEN open the impeachment inquiry and turn it all over to the Judiciary Committee. The Judiciary Committee can then focus, not on doing an investigation of a wide range of activities, but on pulling together the vast array of evidence into a concrete, cohesive narrative to present to the American people and on which to base the Articles of Impeachment.

But turning it all over to the Judiciary Committee and labeling it an impeachment inquiry right now, in my view, won't have the effect some people think it will.

[pdsimdars]

16. That first thing is wrong. Have you heard some of the constitutional authorities and historians

making the case? Have you heard Justin Amash make the case in a TOWN HALL to his consituents who gave him a standing ovation? Have you heard the Democratic presidential candidates like Warren make the case? They are inspirational. They are standing up for the constitution and the rule of law. They are not hiding in any shadow they can find or any excuse they can think of. THEY are not being cowards. I feel that others are.

[StarfishSaver]

25. All constitutional authorities aren't on the same page on this

I'm a constitutional expert and I and many others disagree with this school of thought.

It happens.

[58Sunliner]

95. Really. Who are these many others? Let's hear from the other experts on this panel. LOL.

[ffr]

19. Start the inquiry.

[StarfishSaver]

27. While you're giving orders to others, what are YOU doing about it?

[ffr]

114. Nice try with your Straw Man fallacy

I didn't say I was ordering, you said I was ordering. My comment is just that, a comment like any other on here, my approval for our elected officials to start the impeachment inquiry.

However, you read into it that I am giving orders to others. I am not. Your argument is a Straw Man fallacy.

But since you brought it up about What am I doing about it (What are you doing about it?), to answer your question directly, I'll have you know I am in frequent contact with my elected officials and have written them countless times. I'm sure there is no ambiguity as to how much I detest Cult45 in my pointed language and my support for any actions taken by my elected officials to use whatever means necessary to make sure that no one is above the law.

Now that we have that out of the way, since you are casting stones, I'll do what is only fair and return your question upon you. What have YOU done to sway your elected officials to act in our best interests???


p.s. I find it odd that the OP of such a post that closes with "Please - do something positive if you want to help make this happen!" attacks the very people agreeing with that conclusion, i.e. "Start the inquiry!"

[StarfishSaver]

116. What am I doing?

I do everything I recommend in my OP, including calling my representatives and helping others to do the same by providing them information about the issues and how to be an effective advocate.

In addition, I've also developed a community education program to help residents of local underserved communities better understand the electoral and political process (the curriculum includes Constitutional history, voting rights, the legislative process, effective advocacy, the courts and judicial nominations), how it directly impacts their lives and well-being, and how they can effect change through voting and political engagement.

I'm not suggesting that people do anything I'm not already doing myself.

I don't expect everyone to do everything I'm doing. But, in my opinion, the very least that most people can do is pick up a phone and call their senator and representative to weigh in on issues they care about. I have little patience for the claim that they don't do it because "it's a waste of time" - especially from anyone spending time discussing and arguing about the issue with complete strangers online.

[Politicub]

20. Yes on everything.... and especially #4

To everyone bashing Pelosi: what have you done? Have you read the report? Are you talking to people IRL about it? It’s easier to be angry than to be active. There are so many complainers who want someone else to do the heavy lifting.

[panfluteman]

21. There Are a Lot of Good Suggestions in This Posting

However, I worry that Trump and his gang of Republicans are moving much faster to destroy what's left of our democracy and transform it into a fascist autocracy under Trump than the house Democrats are moving to assure that this lawless president is finally brought to justice. I appreciate that house Democrats are trying to do this right, but I fear that they may be trying to do it perfectly - which may not be possible in the real world and the political circumstances we live in. It may simply be a question of who gets to the finish line first - the Democrats fighting for our democracy, or the Trumpist traitors and their enablers.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

38. My thoughts exactly!! Impeach the bastard, now... it can only help defeat that traitorous POS

occupying the White House!! What better way to drive down Shitstain's poll numbers than to highlight the evidence of his Russian collision and obstruction of justice and blast it all over the news every damn day!! I don't give a shit what the damn Rethug-controlled Senate does with that evidence. If they ignore it and give pResident Dickhead a free pass, fine... either way he's screwed in the next election. Just do it already!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Captain Stern]

130. I think maybe you're missing the point of what's going on now.

The evidence of Russian interference/collusion/obstruction of justice already is being blasted over the news every day...and it will continue to be.

But, once trump is impeached in the House, then acquitted in the Senate, it's done. Then, what's going to be blasted all over the news is TRUMP EXONERATED! And all of that will happen well before any of us go to the polls if impeachment procedings are started now.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

131. Right, exonerated by a bunch of corrupt Repukes... but, the press from the hearings

and the Senate trial will provided HUGE negative publicity that can be used right up to the election... I respect your opinion, but, I think that's what you might be missing. It's a win-win for Democrats, as it will surely help drive down Shitstain's poll numbers, regardless of the final outcome on impeachment.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[StarfishSaver]

132. That negative publicity will have a very short shelf life

And it's not even close to a year. The American voter has a limited attention span. And there'll be so much Trump madness between impeachment and the election, if there's too much time between the two, impeachment could just be a long ago memory.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

133. I hear ya, I just respectfully disagree. I think the positives FOR impeachment FAR outweigh

the negatives. The TV ads will write themselves!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[CaptainTruth]

49. If Trump is "brought to justice" by being impeached...

he won't be convicted in the Senate. So he will be just as lawless, just as evil, after impeachment, & he'll still be in office, able to do all the things he can do today. He can continue destroying our country just as fast as he is now.

That's the harsh reality.

[NewJeffCT]

28. If you don't have time to sit down and read the Mueller Report

Audible.com has a professionally narrated audiobook available for FREE download.

[deek]

43. Good to know!

thanks

[Eyeball_Kid]

29. Excellent post. Thank you.

[PufPuf23]

31. Why isn't Nancy Pelosi doing what she needs to do to get the votes?

The Democrats I know in meat space are overwhelmingly for impeachment. I know no Democrats (plus many independents) that are not for impeachment. None.

Trump is a dangerous joke.

Mueller was not the answer.

The malfeasance does not start nor end with Russia, it is ubiquitous in virtually everything done by Trump and his administration.

DU and the media are where I see Democrats that question an aggressive move to impeach.

[StarfishSaver]

35. How do you know she's not

Pelosi is the best at inside persuasion and whipping Congress has had in generations. But the key to her success is that she does it behind the scenes.

Don't assume that just because you don't see her doing it that she's not. People have lost their careers underestimating her skill at this.

[PufPuf23]

44. Don't assume you know my or anyone elses knowledge or understanding of a politician

nor expect that they should think like you.

I was in Berkeley / SF Bay Area when the prominent Bay Area Democrats began their political careers (Pelosi, Feinstein, Willy Brown, Stark, the Burtons, etc.). I favored Ron Dellums of the lot.

Have been a registered and save one occasion an exclusively Democratic voter since 1971. So I am pretty accustomed to not getting what I may want but neither am I politically naïve by any means.

[StarfishSaver]

58. You may be from the Bay area

but if you say that Pelosi isn't "doing what she needs to do to get the votes," don't be surprised if anyone thinks you're not familiar with how she operates in Washington.

[PufPuf23]

65. Here is the thing, Pelosi does not have the votes now

but they should be out there if their Congress people truly represent their constituents voters.

I'd like to hear more "this should be done" and less "why this can't be done now" from Pelosi.

From my perspective Pelosi does too much in her public statements to dampen the vote she needs to rid ourselves of Trump.

I am not from the Bay Area but lived with relatives there most of grade school and went to Bay Area boarding schools grades 8-11. As an adult earned two Cal degrees and worked at a Federal research lab in Berkeley.

As said, I am not naïve and neither can anyone condemn my staying power as an actively registered and voting member of the Democratic party.

[StarfishSaver]

68. Why do you put all of the responsibility for individual members supporting impeachment on Pelosi?

Aren't THOSE members responsible for their positions? And what about their constituents?

[PufPuf23]

77. I did not state that at all.

Please don't twist my words and please do not interact with me in the future at DU.

[StarfishSaver]

79. I guess your insistence on what Pelosi should be doing differently instead of talking

about what the Members who don't yet support impeachment should be doing made me think you were putting all of the responsibility for individual members supporting impeachment on Pelosi

Why isn't Nancy Pelosi doing what she needs to do to get the votes?

I'd like to hear more "this should be done" and less "why this can't be done now" from Pelosi.

From my perspective Pelosi does too much in her public statements to dampen the vote she needs to rid ourselves of Trump.

My bad if that's not what you were doing.

[ancianita]

45. Absolutely. She's supporting every single thing every committee chair is doing.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

134. I hear ya... Pelosi is politically astute enough to know she can drive impeachment and that

it will GUARAN-FUCKIN-TEE victory for us in 2020!! Just need to be a bit more patient I spose.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Fragment]

36. Mitch Wants Americans to Have a Say

I think we all need to be more visible in order to have our voices heard, so I am going to take a t-shirt and print IMPEACH!, front and back, in large bold letters with a permanent marker.

If large numbers of Americans wore these shirts as often as possible, the will of the people would be hard to ignore.

[Docreed2003]

37. Starfish I agree with your points, I do.... but

And like most buts take this for what little it might be worth...

People are frustrated and they are looking for leadership. Leadership means taking a stand, even if it's unpopular, and bending public opinion to meet your positions. Right now, the Democratic House leadership is sending a very mixed message to the American people of: what Trump did deserves investigation and we will investigate on many fronts but we're not ready for impeachment yet. Right now Trump/Barr are well ahead of the messaging on this issue. If we slow walk this too much, the momentum and energy for any support will be lost. I can't blame outsiders who are criticizing our leadership for worrying about the effect of impeachment proceedings on 2020 polls. Our leadership needs to SHOW US every news cycle exactly what they are doing and if they seriously believe Trump should be removed from office, they should be sending as many people out to the airwaves as they can, every day, to make that case to the American people. They shouldn't be relying on us to force their hand. The polls of the base show that we support investigations....now is the time for hard leadership and, while they may be providing that behind the scenes, it needs to be better seen in the media.

[stillcool]

50. if it's not on tv...

it never happened.

[Docreed2003]

54. Sadly...yeah

We're not living in an Orwell world, we're living in a Huxley world where our society has dumbed itself down so much with attachments to instant shows and gadgets and so-called social media that we've created a bubble around our individual lives and unless that bubble is broken, then those with power will continue in their corruption, like Huxley said, and we'll be too distracted to notice or care

[StarfishSaver]

59. That's why I posted the OP

If people are waiting around for the representatives to do everything, they're going to be very disappointed. We have a responsibility and a role to play. If we don't want to do it, that's our problem, not that of our reps.

[Docreed2003]

61. Yes but...

To my point above, the American people deserve to see real leadership on this, not just back room six dimensional chess. Right now that leadership is being muddled by convoluted and complex messaging.

[StarfishSaver]

64. If "leadership is being muddled" it's due in large part because of the media

For example, just today, MSNBC showed Pelosi live talking about impeachment. The minute she seguewayed into talking about what the Democrats are doing for the American people, they cut away.

[watoos]

67. Docreed said the opposite

and I agree with him. I am not a Constitutional scholar but I have experience being a public servant and that's what politicians are supposed to be. I was elected to 2 terms of council in a red neck town because I led the fight to stop the powers of the town strip coal on our community's watershed. I worked for 20 dollars a month. I attended zoning seminars on my own dime because I was on the zoning committee. I went to Rec board meetings, went to firemen meetings, showed up at a resident's house to check out his storm drain. That's what people are supposed to do who choose public office. When the going gets tough the tough need to step forward. Mueller opened the door for Democrats all they have to do is walk through.

Republicans will soon control the narrative once again if we don't open an impeachment inquiry.

[BeyondGeography]

57. Great post

I have called Pelosi’s office, been directed to voicemail and will call again. But she’s obviously dug in against impeachment and in a strict seniority-based system, leadership has a lot of power over its members. With the top three clearly conflicted on impeachment, it shouldn’t come as any surprise that the entire caucus is muddled on the question. And of course there is zero messaging aimed at shaping public opinion on impeachment coming from top House Democrats. So forgive me if I don’t buy into the OP’s implied premise that it’s on us to move Congress, especially as Pelosi is extending congressional buy-in to include Senate Republicans. Should we call them too?

[StarfishSaver]

82. Calling Pelosi is a waste of time. Why aren't you calling your Member?

Leadership has SOME power over its membership, but not like it used to. Members have much more autonomy than they used to.

You seem very informed and knowledgeable. Why don't you help get the word out? Complaining about Pelosi or expecting her and the top people in leadership to singlehandedly convince their Members to change their positions isn't realistic or helpful. Members are much more likely to do what their constituents want than to follow leadership - especially if their constituents are very vocal and adamant. One of the reasons they're still not supporting impeachment is that they don't think their constituents are here yet - no matter how hard Pelosi, et al lean on them.

The idea that you have no responsibility to try to help move Congress is rather shocking from someone who seems as informed as you are. That's what I expect from people who don't know any better since the surest way to make sure you have power over your opponent is to convince them that they are powerless. I hope you haven't let anyone convince you that nothing you do matters and that you can't do anything to effect the change you're seeking.

And yes, you should call the Senate Republicans, too.

[BeyondGeography]

85. Thanks for the lecture...I know Delgado well (NY-19)

He isn’t going to stick his neck out on this issue without a major shift in tone from the Speaker. It’s a true swing district and this is not an easy call for him.

The Speaker is not leading on impeachment. She is playing for time, hoping the issue will die down and many members are kicking the can right along with her.

[StarfishSaver]

88. "He isn't going to stick his neck out on this issue without a major shift in tone from the Speaker."

I'll bet he'll "stick his his neck out" if his constituency changes their minds and begins to support impeachment. Actually, he won't have to stick his neck out because the risk to his seat will diminish the more his constituents support impeachment.

"The Speaker is not leading on impeachment. She is playing for time, hoping the issue will die down and many members are kicking the can right along with her." You know her, too?

[BlueWI]

106. THIS.

Individual citizens have a key part to play in building public support and support in Congress for impeachment or any other action. But, as we are reminded constantly, none of us are Speaker of the House. That office has a special stature and has more influence over public opinion than we do.

The message on impeachment has been a muddle, despite the many correct actions taken in committees to investigate the president. Too much reticence has been signaled by the Speaker on the impeachment issue. That needs to stop and a more determined response needs to be sustained by the Speaker and by all.of us.

[StarfishSaver]

107. How do you suggest the Speaker communicate a more determined response

to those who need to hear it (i.e., not us, but those who don't already support impeachment but need to be convinced)?

[BlueWI]

108. Publicly or privately, have a strategy summit.

Last edited Thu May 30, 2019, 08:10 AM - Edit history (1)

Count the votes. Assess the current range of opinions. Avoid all public marginalizing of those who support impeachment.

Signal to the public the sobriety of this moment. If impeachment really is on the table, clearly let the public know that despite the difficulty of this process, the gravity of the allegations call for the highest seriousness we can muster through our institutions.

Add clarity to the timeline of the current investigations in every press statement - what is hoped to be accomplished and when? Two months, two years, before 2020, after 2020 - is there any sense of this? Find some language to describe what is being done now and why the scope of the current investigations is sufficient to build on what Mueller has done and is a proportionate response to the gravity of these issues.

Reach out privately to House Republicans. Leverage a friendship or two and back channel these discussions.

Continue to gather perspectives and refine communication in advance of 2020!

Avoid further statements such as he's not worth it. Be specific about the allegations in all communication so that the news media has no choice but to reinforce the specifics about the crimes. The more determination shown, the more it becomes newsworthy and convincing to those in the middle.

Etc. - strategize and go! The stakes are too high to wait. Saturday we'll be at the state Democratic convention in WI. You can bet that we'll be strategizing here!! Mueller's appearance may be the last opening till the financial records release, and who knows when that will be. Take advantage of the current news cycle and push on!

[StarfishSaver]

110. How do you know none of this is happening behind the scenes?

[BlueWI]

111. I don't know, obviously.

You asked how greater determination could be shown and support could be strengthened among those who are undecided.

I answered based on my observations of how impeachment has been addressed publicly by the Speaker. It's pretty obvious from previous statements that there's a distaste for impeachment, and IMO, this distaste is so prominent that it muddles the public messages.

Compare this to the way the issue is currently addressed publicly by Democratic candidates - Warren, Booker, Harris, etc. There is a clear difference in tone between the determined statements from these senators who are campaigning and Speaker Pelosi's more middling public rhetoric. I get that as House leader, she must respect differences among members and not lean overly hard in one direction. But respecting different opinions does not preclude highlighting the determination in the caucus to uphold the rule of law, with enough clarity that the language of determination becomes a primary sound bite. Think of how well Mueller did this - in one public statement!

Undoubtedly there are developments behind the scenes, but based on public statements, it seems to me that events, including Mueller's press conference, have forced the hand of those who prefer to avoid the messiness of impeachment. Even on DU the tone of the discussion is finally changing to seriously considering the possibility, and it's about time.

[StarfishSaver]

112. I hear you

But the Speaker is a very different position than a presidential candidate, so she has to approach this differently.

I understand people's frustration, but she can't be out banging the drum on impeachment as if it's her idea and greatest wish. Different people must play different roles in this and she's playing hers just right. When impeachment happens (and I think it will), it will be because the public called for it, not because the woman second in line to the office she's trying remove the president from (thereby making herself first in line) forced it on the country.

As I've said before, she's letting him chase her til she catches him ...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

135. THIS!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[still_one]

39. Well said OP

[CaptainTruth]

42. I hereby nominate you for a DU MVP (Most Valuable Poster) Award.

Your perspective & clarity are invaluable here, & always 100% spot-on.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[StarfishSaver]

69. Thanks!

[watoos]

47. Without an impeachment inquiry

We will Lose the narrative. Dems should be going after Barr for lying about the Mueller report.
If we shouldn’t impeach now what more do we need to convince us? If what Trump has done so far isn’t enough to impeach, Dems need to pass a bill outlawing impeachment.
Oh by the way, disagreeing with Speaker Pelosi is not bashing her. Remember Barbara Lee?
How about we just do what’s right?

[uponit7771]

48. K&R, Please also deliniate between impeachment ... VOTE ... and impeachment PROCESS

My understanding after 3 hours of FAUX News Red Don ... WANT'S ... the impeachment vote but NOT the impeachment process mostly including investigations that will beat his numbers by a thousand cuts.

Right now the right is wanting to conflate the two as much as possible while saying we should "move on" knowing they don't want the investigations.

[warmfeet]

52. Good advice. Let's do it now.

Time is a wasting, and our democracy is a crumbling.

[Kurt V.]

55. the first part of this op is speculation and most likely not true. the rest im ok with.

[orangecrush]

70. Already have.

[StarfishSaver]

71. Great!

[Me.]

72. This Thread

Well Done

[DinahMoeHum]

73. One other thing: GOTV in 2019 and 2020 LIKE NEVER BEFORE.

What we did and gained in 2017 and 2018 should just be a warm-up for 2019 and 2020

Why 2019, you ask? Consider this:

While most of the elections nationwide will be on a local basis (villages, towns, cities, counties) with the goal of consolidating and expanding our gains in 2017 and 2018 there are also some elections with national implications: Louisiana, Mississippi and Kentucky have governorships and state legislatures at stake. Virginia's state legisature will also be in play.

Bottom line: There's no such thing as an "off-year" in elections.

EVERY YEAR IS A CRITICAL ELECTION YEAR.

Join up with your local Democratic Party and help canvass, or join your local Indivisible group to help Get. Out. The. Vote. in 2019 and 2020



One more thing: 22 GOP Senators are up for re-election in 2020. Just sayin'

[StarfishSaver]

75. THIS all the way!

Thanks, Dinah!

[lunatica]

74. I've contacted my Congressman after Mueller's speech today

I’ve been watching MSNBC and all the pundits, representatives and legal contributors are in agreement that Mueller’s speech is enough to understand impeachment is necessary.

They think Mueller has made it quite clear that the ball is in the Congress now and that Congresspeople should do their oversight job.

I think a turning point will be in evidence as soon as next week.

[StarfishSaver]

76. Great!

You're making a difference!

[MFGsunny]

78. K & R ... + 1,000,000

Thank you, StarfishSaver, for being the voice of wisdom soooo often here on DU, always viewing the issues through a very WIDE lens.

Better to be part of the solution, rather than part of the problem!

[StarfishSaver]

80. Thanks, MFGsunny - I'm trying my best!

[WhiteTara]

81. Call Congress 202 224 3121

Put it on your to do list. It's time. Call daily and have everyone you know call too. Put it on your face book page, pin it to your twitter feed. Do what ever it is you do with Instagram and every other social media. We are the Government and we must voice our demands.

[StarfishSaver]

83. Yes! What WhiteTara says

But don't call just any Member. Call YOUR Member!

[tymorial]

84. I do agree with this and it highlights a larger problem. Impeachment is not political

It should never be political. The fact that it is become a political matter is indicative of a larger problem with our country. We are either a nation of laws or we are not. We are either our constitutional republic or we are not.

When politicians place re-election over their oath of office we have become a society that is more concerned with seats and leverage more than the laws themselves. And what do the laws matter if we have no faith in them.

Let me put it a harsher way. We are collectively outraged that states are moving to prevent women from having control over their own bodies. What grants that right? Do we truly want to cherry pick which portions of the constitution we support? If so then why not guns for everyone. Why not reintroduce prohibition. Hell, why should we be able to attack Trump daily. That's a right too. But are we only concerned with what's convenient?

[StarfishSaver]

86. I don't fully agree

Impeachment IS political, but not in the sense of electoral politics. But it is a mechanism - the only one - for the people to remove an elected president from office outside of a presidential election. It can't and shouldn't be done simply because a majority of Congress wants him removed. The people they represent must be heard and a critical mass of them must support it. Otherwise, a rogue opposition party in gerrymandered Congress could thwart the will of the people by impeaching and removing presidents of the other party, even if a large majority of the public doesn't want them to.

Of course, we also expect Congress to do the right thing, even if it's not universally popular but that has to be balanced against doing the will of the people. Usually, that's not a problem - what Members of Congress want often converges with the will of the people - but it can lead to abuse if not handled right.

Imagine if the shoe were on the other foot and (sniff sniff) Hillary had won the popular vote and the Electoral College and was sworn in as president two and a half years ago. We probably have no doubt that Republicans would have started for impeachment immediately, even though a majority of the country had elected her and didn't want her removed. Do you think it would have been appropriate for them to impeach her even if a majority of the American people opposed impeachment. Would it have been ok if the Republican majority truly felt that Hillary had committed crimes that made her unfit for office?

In this instance, many of us strongly feel this president must be removed - but most of us also felt he should never have been elected and thought he should be removed pretty much after he said, "So help me God" on January 20, 2017. Regardless how we feel, right now we're in a distinct minority and most of the country isn't with us yet. Forcing this on them at this moment in time, in my view, is not the way to go. They have to be educated and shown why he needs to go. And, although the Mueller Report is more than enough for us, it hasn't been for them. But I do think the tide is turning and soon we'll be in a position to open an impeachment inquiry with a support of a substantial swath of the public.

[Pepsidog]

87. Agree

[BigmanPigman]

91. Congress switchboard [phone]

Ask for your rep and keep it short and to the point.

I call reps in Red states and districts since mine are all Blue. I use Zillow to get real addresses for homes for sale, rent etc. and get the zip code in case the staff asks. Google "Zillow, homes for sale in "Name the City, Name the State". I tell the staffer that I am a constituent and my co-workers, family and friends say, "blah, blah, blah(whatever the issue is that I am calling about)". You can use any phone number area code since cell phones can be from any state. I have done this close to hundreds of times and it works.

A relative worked for a rep as a phone staffer in DC and she told me that they DO take everyone's opinion and they keep track and pass the info along, it doesn't go in the trash.

[StarfishSaver]

92. You're right. They really do keep track of opinions

I've worked with a number of Members and Senators and every one of them paid attention to the calls, letters and emails they got from constituents, especially on important issues. Whenever I brought up a new, controversial issue with a Senator I worked with, the first thing he always asked me was "What are we hearing from home about it?"

[BigmanPigman]

93. My only problem is that I am too passionate

and can start to cry (like when I call about the ACA). At least they know I am sincere I guess.

[StarfishSaver]

94. I understand!

[colsohlibgal]

96. I Think It Is Time

Good grief, he is ridiculously in multiple violations of the Emollients Clause. there has to be a reason he and his minions have fought hard to thwart release of his tax returns and now that dam seems to be bursting.

An inquiry is just to get this stuff out in the open. I mean Nixon was a bigot, racist, a burglar but not the daily embarrassment this spoiled rich brat is and was way smarter.

This Orange Spoiled Brat is a daily embarrassment for this Country. Enough.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

99. I know they are trying - but please explain

"First, they're not doing "nothing" - they're doing plenty."

Can you enumerate that? Trump blocking docs and people testifying, right. So waiting for the courts, which could take years, is not an option.

seriously, would love to know what is being accomplished? What is the end game?

Missing the window ! We had a second chance today, since we didn't act on the day the report was released.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

100. Translation - we only do what is right if we get the

majority of the people to agree with what is right. We don't lead THEM by doing what is right?

[brer cat]

109. Agree.

Thanks for the OP.

[treestar]

113. If it waits a little while

It could get in the way of the Orange BigMouth campaigning. His having to deal with impeachment in 2020 could be a good thing.

[usaf-vet]

115. Two questions 1.does anyone have a suggestion of which Mueller Report to read?...

Amazon and other sources have multiple options. Any recommendations for one?

Question 2. does any one feel we are close to a un-redacted version that the public would get to see?

I would like to wait and buy one with the most complete report. If possible.

We don't have a printer so a downloaded version / online version is not an option for my 72 year old eyes.

Thanks in advance for suggestions.

[StarfishSaver]

117. The Washington Post version is excellent

Among other things, the Foreword is very well written, comprehensive but concise.

It's available as an ebook or audiobook, but I prefer the hard copy because I like to mark it up and take notes in it. Old school ...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1982129735/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_5Q.7CbRG76F5M

[iscooterliberally]

118. Ugh...I'm working on #4 right now.

I think I'm on page 12. I'm a graduate of 'The School for Kids who don't read good'. So this is going to take a while. Anyway, being positive is the answer! Thanks for your post!

[StarfishSaver]

119. Great! It's not easy reading, but interesting and important

Considering the topic and volume of material that needed to be summarized, it's very well-written.

[iscooterliberally]

120. I can't wait to ask other people if they've read the report.

Especially when I hear some BS that clearly indicates that they have not read the report. I'm thankful that I can't hold up the impeachment process because I'm a slow reader though. At least we have that going for us!

[StarfishSaver]

121. LOL!

[MBS]

122. Excellent, thank you. n/t

[George II]

123. All five of our Representatives and both Senators are Democrats. I'm sure they'll be behind....

....whatever decision is made by the House leaders.

[StarfishSaver]

124. You should call them anyway!

Let them know your views - knowing they have your support will make it easier for them to do it!

[Gore1FL]

125. I sent a note to William Lacy Clay

I told him that as his constituent I thought it important to inform him I was one of the "only small number of Democrats" that wanted impeachment hearings.

[StarfishSaver]

126. Great!

But I believe that Pelosi was talking about the House Democrats, not Democrats at large.

[DeminPennswoods]

127. Called my congressman's office

today. Talked to a very nice staffer and said that I'd supported Speaker Pelosi's position, but now I think it's time to begin an impeachment inquiry. Out of curiosity I asked how the calls were running and was told that at least for the ones this staffer was answering, since Mueller spoke, there were a lot like my own.

[StarfishSaver]

128. Awesome!

You weighed in AND got back good intelligence. That's great!

[DeminPennswoods]

129. Since Congress is in recess,

I guess the staffers have a bit more time to talk. I love chatting up customer service reps, the people who ask poll questions, staffers, sales reps and so forth. They always are intertesting and surprisingly willing to chitchat!