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pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
Thu May 30, 2019, 07:04 PM May 2019

If you're still not sure about impeachment, consider this:

starting the impeachment process would take away Trump's ability to preemptively PARDON anyone who might be caught up in the impeachment process, including Roger Stone, whose trial starts in November, and Trump's children.

Roger Stone's associate Andrew Miller is about to begin testifying to the grand jury TOMORROW. He could provide damning evidence against Stone and his connection with Wikileaks and with Trump. The last thing Trump wants is for the Federal prosecutor to add new charges to Stone's indictment, based on Miller's testimony, and to use those new charges to pressure Stone to flip on anyone in the Trump family.

So Trump is very, very likely to decide to pardon Stone before his trial, in order to short circuit the trial. Starting impeachment proceedings against Trump would put a stop to that.

The link below is to the conservative Heritage Foundation. Even it agrees that a President's power to pardon cannot be used to affect an impeachment process.

The power to pardon is one of the least limited powers granted to the President in the Constitution. The only limits mentioned in the Constitution are that pardons are limited to offenses against the United States (i.e., not civil or state cases), and that they cannot affect an impeachment process.

Pardon Power - The Heritage Foundation
https://www.heritage.org/constitution/articles/2/essays/89/pardon-power

And here, from the more liberal Brookings Institute, a view from the Founding Fathers.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2018/07/25/the-pardon-power-and-original-intent/

But if impeachment starts, there has to be a trial in the Senate. The president still holds office until and unless he is convicted. What can stop him pardoning anyone who was involved in the crimes for which the president is being impeached or whose testimony might put him in jeopardy? The president, according to Madison, still holds office, but he no longer has the power to pardon. The House can “suspend him when suspected, and the power will devolve on the Vice-President. Should he be suspected, also, he may likewise be suspended till he be impeached and removed, and the legislature may make a temporary appointment. This is a great security.”
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If you're still not sure about impeachment, consider this: (Original Post) pnwmom May 2019 OP
Bingo!! SHRED May 2019 #1
The House beginning or even successfully impeaching a president does not in any way limit his pardon tritsofme May 2019 #2
Yes, it would, if Trump used a pardon to affect the impeachment process. pnwmom May 2019 #3

tritsofme

(17,369 posts)
2. The House beginning or even successfully impeaching a president does not in any way limit his pardon
Thu May 30, 2019, 07:13 PM
May 2019

power.

This means that the president cannot use his pardon to end or absolve impeachment or the impeachment process.

pnwmom

(108,955 posts)
3. Yes, it would, if Trump used a pardon to affect the impeachment process.
Thu May 30, 2019, 07:17 PM
May 2019

And pardoning Stone, who has said he's protecting Trump, and preventing the trial from going forward, would have that affect.

Stone has been charged with lying about his contacts with Wikileaks, among other things. And his indictment says he was working with someone high up in the Trump administration. For all we know, that was Trump.

Stone was charged with lying, obstruction and witness intimidation related to his statements to Congress about his attempts to interact with WikiLeaks about stolen documents in 2016. Russian military agents were separately charged by Mueller for the alleged hack of the Democrats.


https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/12/politics/roger-stone-justice-department-investigation/index.html


ALSO, I just added this to the OP:


https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2018/07/25/the-pardon-power-and-original-intent/

But if impeachment starts, there has to be a trial in the Senate. The president still holds office until and unless he is convicted. What can stop him pardoning anyone who was involved in the crimes for which the president is being impeached or whose testimony might put him in jeopardy? The president, according to (James) Madison, still holds office, but he no longer has the power to pardon. The House can “suspend him when suspected, and the power will devolve on the Vice-President. Should he be suspected, also, he may likewise be suspended till he be impeached and removed, and the legislature may make a temporary appointment. This is a great security.”
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