General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI'm watching a Netflix series title Auschwitz, The Nazis & The Final Solution
So far Ive watched 3 and a half episodes. It is the most in depth coverage Ive seen of the Holocaust and specifically about about the death camps and how they were developed chronologically through the years into the killing factories the allies found at the end of the war.
As a historical series its really outstanding in showing what and how it all developed from soldiers shooting the Jews in entire towns on the edges of a pit to the German determination to find an efficient way to murder all the Jews in Europe. There is a lot of real footage used, mixed with recreations with actors to interviews with survivors and Germans soldiers who worked in the camps who are alive today, living normal lives.
Episode 3 is particularly difficult because it deals with how the children were were treated from even before the camps were built, specifically as death camps. Of course, the story of Dr Mengele is included whose story is told by survivors. At this point I had to take a break and I decided to come to DU to post about it.
Ive seen a lot of history and footage about the Holocaust because Ive always known that yes, it can happen here. But this is the first time Ive seen it with the knowledge that there are alarming signs that its beginning to happen here. The early Nazi history was also seemingly innocuous and started in ways that are similar to what we see here today. I wouldnt be quite so worried now except for the children in detention camps on the border who were forcibly taken from their parents. Who are still taken from their parents now, in the present and our government ignores our Courts orders to reunite the families.
I recommend for everyone who can to watch this series. For those of us who have studied and learned about the Holocaust it will turn out to be a thorough historical series tying our scattered knowledge together into greater understanding. It will also have an impact because of what is happening now. We can no longer be complacent that it wont happen here. It serves as an educational warning and how to see the emerging patterns in our own country. This monstrous underbelly is beginning to cast an ugly shadow in our country now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz:_The_Nazis_and_'The_Final_Solution'
JimGinPA
(14,811 posts)K&R
hlthe2b
(102,141 posts)tears start to flow.
I do like documentaries, but given what is happening on our Southern border with the kids--albeit not anything like the Nazi camps I grant you-- I think I'll have to wait on this one.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)But if you follow the link it takes you to Wikipedia which summarizes the series better than I can. There are various links in the summary as Wikipedia tends to have. That way you dont have to watch any re-enactments or real footage.
inanna
(3,547 posts)Now, I'm going to have to watch it again.
kimbutgar
(21,060 posts)I couldnt watch now and not think of the Adults and children in those immigration detention centers. I feel some bad stuff is happening there because of evil USA policies of this administration.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I feel like I have seen almost every film and documentary ever made on the Nazis and the Holocaust, and yet they always manage to shock and sicken me every time. I can't believe that something like this could have happened in the western world and so recently. It is unimaginable to me, but yet I am seeing the groundwork being laid in this country and it terrifies me.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)I really felt I needed to share it, almost as if sounding the alarm that if unchecked this WILL happen here unless we stop it now.
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)Those who dont learn from the past tend to repeat it. Hope we stop the slide that direction in time.
The fear, dread, and then hate of the other is an old theme, sadly.
inanna
(3,547 posts)in the school curriculum, which may help to explain some of the current dilemmas we are facing.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)I first learned of it from my mother and father when I was only a child. My then 10 year old brother had drawn a swastica on his arm. He had no idea what it meant, he was only 10 after all, but my parents were horrified! They proceeded to tell us all they knew of the death camps. It was the start of my education on the Holocaust.
I told my son about it after asking him if he was taught about it and finding out he wasnt. They dont teach practically anything about Vietnam Nam either, so I told him about that war. He became a history buff too.
inanna
(3,547 posts)The Holocaust/WWII was taught during high school, but not at any great length.
I made it a personal mission to educate her on such matters.
She knows about the Holocaust and is an avowed anti racist.
Like your son, she takes an interest in history as well as politics and current events.
So I guess we both agree: when these subjects are taught appropriately, it does help.
moondust
(19,962 posts)Last edited Fri May 31, 2019, 03:30 PM - Edit history (1)
Earlier today I was thinking about parallels between the early Nazis and the current Trumpers and if it could happen here. Both were/are largely rooted in the idea of the white "master race"/white supremacy. One thing I think we can be thankful for is that the U.S. is a diverse "melting pot." I believe the population of Germany in the 1930s was quite homogeneous (not diverse) which probably had a lot to do with why so many Germans got sucked into the Nazi cult.
I believe the Final Solution was largely planned/discussed at the villa Am Großen Wannsee 5658. When I was stationed in Berlin in the 70s the building was a recreation center for U.S. troops. I was there a few times but didn't know then that it was the site of the Wannsee Conference.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Youll see.
PatrickforO
(14,559 posts)Reinhard Heydrich in the film Conspiracy. The first time I watched it I couldn't quite get my head around it. I had to repeat.
It is a faithful depiction of the fateful final solution meeting held in this house in Wannsee in late 1942. Branagh, of course, is brilliant - he's an excellent actor. But some other notables also star in the film:
Kenneth Branagh as SS-Obergruppenführer Reinhard Heydrich
Stanley Tucci as SS-Obersturmbannführer Adolf Eichmann
Colin Firth as SS-Brigadeführer Dr Wilhelm Stuckart
Ian McNeice as SS-Oberführer Dr Gerhard Klopfer
Kevin McNally as Martin Luther
David Threlfall as Ministerialdirektor Dr Friedrich Wilhelm Kritzinger
Ewan Stewart as Dr Georg Leibbrandt
Brian Pettifer as Gauleiter Dr Alfred Meyer
Nicholas Woodeson as SS-Gruppenführer Otto Hofmann
Jonathan Coy as SS-Sturmbannführer Erich Neumann
Brendan Coyle as SS-Gruppenführer Heinrich Müller
Ben Daniels as Dr Josef Bühler
Barnaby Kay as SS-Sturmbannführer Dr Rudolf Lange
Owen Teale as Dr Roland Freisler
Peter Sullivan as SS-Oberführer Dr Karl Eberhard Schöngarth
Something else - there is a minimal script - the movie is based on one surviving copy of the actual minutes.
Like Schindler's List, this movie is a favorite, simply because I'm a big believer in never forgetting the Holocaust. Ever. Now, Schindler's List is notable to me because here we have Oskar Schindler, a mediocre ex-motorcycle racer who is forced by his own conscience to save 1,200 Jews - they lived because of Schindler because Plascow had become a death camp by the end and the survivors were shipped by train to Auschwitz as the Russian Army advanced.
Conspiracy is also a study in human character - the darker side of it. It is the consequence of a failure by these men, by this whole nation, to listen to their conscience. I won't spoil it for you in case you watch it, but listen carefully for Heydrich (Branagh) teasing Eichmann (Tucci) about his 'symptoms.' Conspiracy clearly shows the darkness of these soulless men who so arrogantly decided the fate of six million human beings.
I watch these movies regularly because every time I do it steels me to continue the resistance against Trump and his fascists.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)And yes, it was outstanding. I think the most chilling thing to me is the complete casualness they have of what they plan to do. Yet they went to great lengths to keep it all a secret, counting on people to simply not believe anyone could possibly do that.
Trump is like that. Quite casual about what he does. Dismissive of the thought that his words instigate violence, even as he obviously does just that.
moondust
(19,962 posts)I will definitely try to find it. Was not aware of the film and glad to know of its existence.
Ms. Toad
(33,999 posts)Leghorn21
(13,523 posts)time - appreciate the heads up -
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Now that Im retired I indulge my love of movies and history. I do a lot of binge watching.
canetoad
(17,136 posts)Part 5 is particularly harrowing. It deals with the period when exterminations were ramped up to deal with Gypsies, the Hungarian jews, and whole sub-sections of the Birkenau camp.
If you get a chance, try to watch "The Nazis: A Warning from History". It's also narrated by Sam West (son of Timothy West and Prunella (Sybil Fawlty) Scales) and deals with Hitler and the Nazis rise to power following Germany's defeat in WW1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nazis:_A_Warning_from_History
I think all 6 parts are available on YouTube.
PatrickforO
(14,559 posts)Sigh.
Always money. In the end, everything is about money.
Lucky Luciano
(11,248 posts)I posted about visiting where my mothers side of the family came from in Latvia/Lithuania before they came to NYC around 1900-1910.
My post:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/12236158
Its a good thing they left. Riga had the 25000 murders in the Rumbula massacre and my other great grandparents town of agare had all 3000 Jews murdered on October 2, 1941.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Ill be sure to watch it. I imagine it gets very personal for people like you to go back to where your parentage are from knowing so many were murdered. It must put a whole different perspective on it!
Lucky Luciano
(11,248 posts)I always felt very disconnected from it since most of the family from that side came before WWI, so they didnt experience the horrors. They also all died before I was born, so I was always more American than anything, but going there on a spur of the moment because I was close enough (I had job related stuff to do in Warsaw and Kiev) was very eye opening.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)my life, sorry.
I would have to have a Valium and 10 boxes of Kleenix to watch that.
I am planning to visit Krakow next year although friends have said DON'T do it. But, I heard it will change your life for the better. And who doesn't need that?
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Its very well made but its still difficult. For me it helps that Ive seen and read a lot about the Holocaust in my life. You learn what to expect so you can brace yourself.
appalachiablue
(41,103 posts)The atrocities and murders that 'Dr. Joseph Mengele' and others committed is horrifying, and not that long ago.
BBC, "The Twins of Auschwitz," Jan. 2015. When the Soviet army liberated the Auschwitz death camp 70 years ago many of the prisoners had been killed or marched away by the retreating Nazis. But among those left were some twin children - the subject of disturbing experiments by Dr Josef Mengele.
Vera Kriegel and her twin sister Olga were just five years old when they were taken from their village in Czechoslovakia to Auschwitz. Transported in cattle cars which were so tightly packed that the dead were still standing, she recalls the "sheer terror" of arriving at the camp and treading on "dead people like steps" as she left the train.
New arrivals at the camp were sorted into the weak, who would be gassed straight away, and the strong, who would be made to work. But Mengele and his assistants were there too, looking for twins.
Vera, her sister, and her mother were taken straight to SS Captain Josef Mengele. He was intrigued, she says, by what he described as her mother's "perfect Aryan features" and blue eyes, while Vera's and her sister's were brown. Read More..
Read More, https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30933718
- Children at Auschwitz show the identification numbers printed on their arms
Auschwitz twin survivor Eva Kors who is still here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Mozes_Kor
'Angel of Death,' Dr. Joseph Mengele conducted monstrous experiments on Jewish & Roma twin children at Auschwitz.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)But its vital that each generation know that these crimes have been committed. The knowledge must be kept alive, and I commend the Jews for doing so. Its so easy to forget and fall into the same behavior again.
blue-wave
(4,344 posts)fuck the nazis.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Fuck them!
ancianita
(35,949 posts)THIS:
"We can no longer be complacent that it wont happen here. It serves as an educational warning and how to see the emerging patterns in our own country. This monstrous underbelly is beginning to cast an ugly shadow in our country now."
lunasun
(21,646 posts)to camp if this continues to grow in the US
may just greatly increase killing people right on the street or in our cars wont waste anytime or $ that way
and call it tough on crime whether the people dying did anything wrong or not no judge or jury
Look at Duerte in the Phillipines where regular citizens are approved to execute with impunity
lunatica
(53,410 posts)forcing women to kill drug dealers in the streets and marketplaces by telling them hell have their children killed. Supposedly women would not raise drug dealers suspicions.
Duterte is a real piece of work.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)in the name of helping Duerte and restoring the Phillipines .
No proof needed on the drug claim and then pooff your business partner or spouse are dead
how convienent for those of a depolorable persuasion
Stand your ground and look for those doing wrong trump could tell his racist gay hating base
RoadMan
(48 posts)lunatica
(53,410 posts)At first they would get the people they invaded, like the French, to hand over the Jews that werent French but who lived there because the French were trying to protect their citizens. They did this to the countries in Eastern Europe too. This is included in the documentary.
Now Trump is doing the same thing. Putting refugees from other countries in camps so, of course, his MAGATs think its OK because they arent Americans.
Its in the Nazi playbook.
Behind the Aegis
(53,921 posts)Seems too many forget the significance of the Holocaust and that it was designed to destroy many people, but Jews were the top of the list and now, Jews are ignored and anti-Semitism is mocked, unless it fulfills a certain need.
JustAnotherGen
(31,783 posts)And Jews are a key target in TrumpMerica.
BTA - they, them - they want us all out of their cOuntry.
JustAnotherGen
(31,783 posts)We don't have to go back that far.
I see stronger parallels between the swift brutal machete death genocide of Rwanda and the USA under Trumpmericans.
https://www.amazon.com/Wish-Inform-Tomorrow-Killed-Families/dp/0312243359
Gourevitch is the child of Holocaust survivors.
There is a lot of material out there, but he shows the experience of the people pre genocide and the experience of it. The mass media (radio) played a huge part in the influence of people as well as how the genociders total access to spread their messaging
up to and during the mass murder.
If only we had interfered with the radio broadcast waves.
When it happens here - 45 will call for it over the Twitter.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,362 posts)Our nation got to the point where one third of the
Population was determined to do away with another third, while the last third stood by and watched. We are seeing a similar situation develop in the United States
bdamomma
(63,801 posts)is tRump's Joseph Goebbels.
they kind of look alike
https://www.google.com/search?q=stephen+miller&rlz=1C1CHBD_enBM814BM814&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwje07bc9MXiAhWPT98KHRPODF8Q_AUIDygC&biw=1440&bih=757
https://www.google.com/search?q=pronounce+goebbels+german&rlz=1C1CHBD_enBM814BM814&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiMqvae9MXiAhUQ01kKHXphCBQQ_AUIECgD&biw=1440&bih=757