Mecum Muscle Car Auction

[1-Old-Man]

If you have satellite television its quite possible that you get two or three channel that are devoted to all things automotive. One of the staple of the auto channels is the automobile auction. Hardly an hour of the day goes by when you can not watch a Mustang-GT, and old Pontiac GTO, or one of the omnipresent Chevy Z-28s head for the block.

Some of these cars sell for nearly unimaginable amounts of money - or at least they used to. Any student of the Auctions can tell you, the prices for US muscle cars is turning to crap right before collector's eyes.

And what has this got to do with the Tea Party, you might reasonably ask?

I think the prices got for the '60s muscle cars is dropping simply because the people who knew these cars in their youth are heading to their graves in droves. About a year ago I was watching a program about collectable Rail-road memorabilia and was very much surprised to see the bottom has fallen out of that market too. The announcer who brought that fact to my attention explained why, it was because there were precious few people left alive who knew the rail-roads as a major force in the nation in their youth. In short, everyone who cared has died off.

Now, ask again, what has this got to do with the Tea Party? Well, how about this. There are less of them today than there were yesterday and there will be fewer of them tomorrow than there were today. They may have been the hot item in political discourse a year ago, but today they are going the way of buggy whips and Olds' 442 convertibles.

[lumberjack_jeff]

1. Collector car prices were just another bubble.

Good. The value of my 70 chevelle is academic because I'll never sell, but now maybe I can get that '62 corvette I've always dreamed of.

[MineralMan]

5. Bingo! I'm hoping prices drop enough for me to be able

to buy something interesting to drive around soon. There's nothing on a 60s car that I cannot repair myself, which would be of great benefit to me at times.

[SoCalDem]

10. I always wanted a Volkswagen Beetle, so a while back I bought one

Last edited Tue Aug 28, 2012, 04:55 PM - Edit history (1)

a 1972 Super Beetle, in primo condition with a beautiful new paint job.. It did not take long for me to realize that I had gotten used to comfort & space, so that little gem was given to our youngest son who dearly loves it..and was the only kid in his high school with one

He still has it..it turns 40 this year It's 7 years older than he is

[Mean Gene]

29. Love an okd Vette. Perhaps a 66

Dang, I was hoping to retire when I finished restoring my Judge. Sell it, pay off the house. And drift off into the sunset.

[taught_me_patience]

2. I agree

I simply don't understand the nostalgia for these old relics. They are inferior to modern cars in every way. In fact, I'm damn sick of car makers pumping out "retro" cars that look like models from 40-50 years ago (Challenger and Camaro).

Much of the muscle car bubble was fueled by the housing bubble.

[Throd]

4. Yes. You don't understand.

[taught_me_patience]

7. My best friend and roomate had a 69 442

I was with him when he bought it and spent many afternoons helping him work on it. I know those cars in and out. The handling was shitty, drum brakes were horrendous, difficult to tune the q-jets, frequently overheated, and wasn't even all that fast. We ported the heads, cammed it, threw on headers, 3.73 posi, and shift kit and it still was a dog. He finally sold it after several years. He probably only drove it 500-1000 miles in that time. A three series BMW is so much more pleasurable to drive... they aren't even in the same league.

[lumberjack_jeff]

11. When I'm in my Chevelle, everyone waves or gives me a thumbs up.

Kids through grandparents - doesn't matter. That's how I define "pleasurable to drive".

That doesn't happen in a BMW. 3 series or otherwise.

Your mileage may vary. Me? The only BMW I'd want is the two wheeled kind.

[bongbong]

13. LOL

Comparing a 3 series beemer and a 1969 Oldsmobile?

Now THAT'S a DUzy!

[Throd]

16. Maybe you were just lousy mechanics. My '68 442 is a beast.

Very fast.

Never, ever overheats (in California no less)

Easy to tune the Q-jet.

I have probably put 50,000 miles on it since I bought it in 1986.

I will concede that the drum brakes are horrendous.

[taught_me_patience]

17. It dynoed over 400ft/lbs and 300+ hp

at the wheels. The car was fast. However, the real problem is tuning the q-jet to function over a wide range of throttle. I swear, my wifes 3-series with 175 hp feels faster. The biggest advantage, imho, of modern cars is the fuel injection tuning that provides the engine with optimal gas/air mixture over all throttle ranges. If we'd have dropped an ls-1 engine and upgraded the brakes to disc, the car would have been so much better.

[leveymg]

24. Why didn't you just trash the QjET and bolt in a Holley 750 double-pumper on an Edelbrock manifold?

Pick up 30-40hp and never have to touch the thing again once you got it jetted.

[Throd]

25. There is no arguing the improvements made since '69.

A BMW 3 series is an excellent car, but is an entirely different animal, so comparisons are difficult.

Since I'm a Luddite, I'd go with a BMW 1970 2800CS 5-speed in lieu of a new one.

[taught_me_patience]

26. Here are some "luddite" cars I'd LOVE

Datsun 510 with a turbo wankel
1985 633 CSI
1972 Mercedes SLC 450
1972 Camaro converted to fuel injection
1995 E420 (last of the great Mercedes)
1986 Dodge Omni GLH Shelby
1987 Camaro IROC TPI
1987 Grand National
1989 Turbo Trans Am
1991 Dodge Spirit R/T (2.2 Turbo)
1988 190E Cosworth
1988 Turbocoupe

[leveymg]

27. You would've liked my old Tii

Very similar to this:


But a '67 Fastback was my first "real car":


They haven't really improved on either. IMHO

[HooptieWagon]

32. I have a '72 tii. Drove it for many years. Love it!

Parked now, needs restoration.

[leveymg]

33. Mine was a '74 "rolling restoration."

Had been parked for a long time. Lots of miles in Colorado - not a real hospitable environment. What's German for "tin worm"? Ran well enough after I turned all the screws and I had a long conversation with the Kugelfisher pump, but the body was patches and primer over that awful Golf Green. But, it came with a Donahue wheel, a pair of round Carillo driving lights, and I found some Scheel seats for it. I liked it and was always able to figure out why it had decided to stop running.

Don't let yours sit still for too long. It won't be the same, unless you plan to do complete strip down and a rotissarie chicken.

What are you driving now?

[leftstreet]

8. Do 'retro' cars represent a 'retro' time of more middle class security?

Or perceived security anyway

[MineralMan]

14. In some respects, you are right. In others, you are woefully wrong.

I'd like to have a 1963-66 MG Midget. I don't have to have a Bugeye Sprite, although that would be my preference. Same car, though, basically. Here's why: I can repair every system in that vehicle with my own hands and with no more diagnostic equipment than my ears, nose, and eyes. Parts are readily available. The vehicle is a lot of fun to drive and the 1-liter engine is pretty fuel-thrifty, and it's a convertible, to boot. When it has a problem, I can correct it, and enjoy the process of doing so. I could disassemble and reassemble that little 948cc engine with a blindfold on, as long as I could assemble my tools before putting on the blindfold. When I reassembled it, it would run just fine. It has has distributor with points and a condenser. It has a simple ignition coil. About $40 replaces the whole ignition system. The carburetors are so simple in design that there isn't really a carburetor kit for them, just a gasket or two. The fuel pump sits on the side of the engine, and uses a simple lever action and diaphragm to pump fuel. That is the entire fuel delivery technology.

About four wrenches and sockets cover all of the fasteners used in the vehicle. Wiring is pretty much just point to point, and I know where every wire comes from and goes to. If wires are bundled and there is a failure, I can simply run a new wire. There are no electronics in the car, except for the radio, which is AM only, and can be replaced with any modern system you wish.

You can reach any component without removing twenty other components if it needs to be serviced.

Will it run 100,000 miles without repairs? It will not. Can it be easily repaired? Yes, it can. Does it need to be taken to the dealer when repairs are needed? It does not.

And there you have it.

[Throd]

3. The economy went in the toilet and people realized a 440 'Cuda wasn't really worth $300,000

Lumberjack Jeff has it right. Just another bubble. And like him, I'll never sell my 442s.

[1-Old-Man]

6. I've got a '92 NSX in the garage myself

I will be buried in that car, I will never sell it.

[Romulox]

28. Sorry, but a 1992 Acura is never going to be desirable like the cars from Detroit's heyday. nt

[snooper2]

9. I don't find your story to ring true...

I've been keeping my eye open on a number of sites for a couple years looking for the right project car/truck-


prices keep going up...Now even the crap from the 70's (what was worse era for cars 70's or 80's (the debate continues)) LOL


here's a search for you from autotraderclassics 70-77,

1970 Plymouth Barracuda 3,333,333


MILEAGE
17750

DESCRIPTION
THIS IS NO TYPO.FOR SALE: 1970 HEMI CUDA BUILD DATE AUGUST 1, 1969 ...... PILOT CAR http://www.firstebodyhemicuda.com/ Swede Savage and Dan Gurney raced identical factory sponsored AAR (All American Racers) 'Cudas in the 1970 Trans Am Series.



They got this Chevelle listed for 95K LOL


http://www.autotraderclassics.com/classic-car/1971-Chevrolet-Chevelle-661603.xhtml?conversationId=231540

[lumberjack_jeff]

15. Still astronomical

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/parse_search_form?mode=parse_search_form&q=barracuda

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/?text=chevelle&adtypeFacet=Vehicles%20for%20Sale

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/chevrolet/chevelle/1455263.html


$11,000

[Romulox]

20. That Chevelle is sah-weet, but I don't have 100 large to drop on it! nt

[leveymg]

23. There is as much fraud in a $3.3M "HemiCuda raced in Trans Am by Dan Gurney" as AIG's trade in CDS.

No HemiCuda ever raced in the SCCA TransAm roadracing series. Never.

HemiCudas were 7 liter (426 cid) factory lead sleds built to drive straight for a 1/4 mile and practically needed 1/2 mile further with a parachute to slow them down enough for a heaving left turn onto the pit return road.

TransAm racers were by definition limited to 5 liters (305 cid), and in the real AAR Cudas were destroked 340s. The street version were 340 6-packs, and damn nice pony cars, but I doubt the entire Plymouth TransAm program had a budget of $3 million. That price for any factory-built American car is just insane.

[Blue_Tires]

12. No...It was just a bubble pumped up by the nouveau riche, the speculators

and the people who wanted to look cool dropping fat dollars on a classic while on SpeedTV...I used to watch Barrett-Jackson, and it was amusing to see the same cars re-sold a couple of years later never having been driven...

Also, the market got WAY too saturated, since cars with $30,000 restorations were selling for $150-200,000+, every shade-tree mechanic started to scour the want ads/junkyards/farmers' fields for some $500 wreck to restore...

So the quick-turn artists got out, classic car collections were no longer the "trendy" thing to be in for the 1% crowd and the prices have mostly equalized...

[rl6214]

18. Every collectable is down in value

It's the economy. I think you need to look for a new theory to back.

[n2doc]

31. Not high end art. Or cars.

The best still appreciates.

[Romulox]

19. Nonsense. People still desire these cars--big time. They just don't have the money for them. nt

[Populist_Prole]

22. You're barking up the wrong tree. Wrong wrong wrong.

As it was pointed out by others as well. Classic cars were just another bubble and thus made them either just trophies for rich pricks or another commodity to be speculated on. I see any of these auctions; Mechum, Barret jackass as a crass display of wealth worship that runs counter to the real nucleus of the hobby previously dominated by working class average joes.

I for one welcome the bubble bursting and thus making them attainable by the working class. Also, the interest is not dominated by people in their sunset years: Attending a show or cruise in will show you an amazingly diverse group.

[Erose999]

30. I love old cars but could never get behind that big money nonsense. Have a '62 Ford Falcon and I've

been trying, slowly, to turn it into something with style I can drive in modern traffic. Updates include disc brakes and bigger rear drums for better stopping power, 14x7 wheels with decent sized tires for better grip, a roller bearing front suspension for a better ride, and a 4 speed manual transmission with overdrive to keep it efficient when cruising at 70mph. The engine is a 200 cubic inch inline six not all that different from the original 170ci engine, but built for modern unleaded/ethanol blended gasoline. It has an upgraded camshaft, carburetor, and electronic ignition for more efficiency and reliability.

Probably not worth nearly what I'll have invested by the time its done, but the every mechanical system of the car will be completely restored, and reliable for hundreds of thousands of miles. And all done on a shoestring budget at a fraction of what those big money cars cost. While their overheating doing their 2 laps around the fairground I'll be having fun, haha.

Its kind of stalled at the moment as I'm waiting for the time and funds to replace the floorpans.