General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMake no mistake. We are not going to invade Iran. We are not having a ground war with Iran.
We are simply going to bomb them into eternity, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children and making a slew of new enemies all over the world.
Our economy and social safety network will be shattered but the wealthy will keep on yachting and journeying to their play lands in Asia and Europe.
Our national laws, having been shattered by a lawless administration and unpatriotic, ignorant following will leave most of us with out any protections from civil or criminal justice.
In the meantime, the purity police will march on, taking the Democratic party onward to despair in a second Trump term.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)empedocles
(15,751 posts)bombing the tankers was 'a minor incident' said trump. [Might have been a phone call from longtime Iran ally putin to
trump]. Ditto Venezuela, trump's coup attempt fizzled when putin made adverse noises.
raging moderate
(4,281 posts)Apparently, there is a TV show in Russia featuring questions phoned in to Putin, who answers them on the show. Someone on Facebook said Putin said the US would be sorry if we attack Iran. Maybe this was an unexpected development!
FakeNoose
(32,351 posts)... stay the hell out of Iran and you'll be mightily rewarded."
Yavin4
(35,357 posts)raging moderate
(4,281 posts)If this works, it will be the first time in awhile.
Kaiserguy
(740 posts)has spoken and Dumb Donny has to listen. Perhaps we should send a thank you card to Putin for keeping us out of another war
Lulu KC
(2,547 posts)UTUSN
(70,496 posts)making enemies, or our economy & safety net or our government or the purity police or even a second SHITLER term.
Because we will all be blown up.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)Do you think Iran has a chance of striking back at us? Do you think that Russia will bomb us over us bombing Iran?
We will watch Iran getting more and more desperate to remove the sanctions, and we will see them doing worse and worse things. Maybe they will shoot down a European airliner, claiming that they thought it was a US bomber coming for them.
They will do anything to get back to the bargaining table, with the end of having the sanctions removed.
wiggs
(7,788 posts)us. There are a lot of muslim countries and other countries who would be fine upsetting the current world order.
UTUSN
(70,496 posts)Of the scenarios you posit, getting to the table & having sanctions removed seem to me the least plausible via the "worse & worse things" you cite - not something happening with SHITLER around. Well, now, the table/sanctions-removed would be a gigantic win for SHITLER!1
With all the events you mention as objects of our "watching" it sounds (to me, I say) that nothing will have consequences of any kind?
I do believe that SHITLER is crapping in his pants.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)but if I read the signs right, somebody with influence over Trump is telling him to goad Iran into pissing off the Iranians enough to have them piss off the rest of the world.
We will see if I'm right, but if the screws just keep getting put to Iran via sanctions, they will do more and more desperate things as time goes on. Trump is an expert at ticking off his opponents, and someone telling him to just put a military toy near Iran to get them to shoot it down in order to scare the part of the world that needs to import oil must appeal to him.
UTUSN
(70,496 posts)* "somebody with influence over (SHITLER)" - I don't see who has much of that.
* BOLTON and others have their agenda of destruction, and even if SHITLER doesn't like it for whatever crap reasons of HIS, the BOLTON types keep doing their worst underground if they can't do it above ground.
* Strategic thinking is one of the capacities lacking in SHITLER.
* "his opponents" - I can't tell who are his real opponents and who are the opponents he buddies up to. I guess the Saudis are all for an Iran Attack.
* We've been told for a decade or more that the Iranian public is hostile to their government, so I don't see their pressure working. Again, if the government caves or collapses, it will be a feather for SHITLER, where even I would be hard pressed to object to a Nobel Peace deal for him!1
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)Point one: Kushner has influence. He wants to be the next Nobel Peace Prize winner. He knows that a shooting war with Iran will complicate that.
Point two: Yes, Bolton is a loose cannon on the deck, but Trump likes having subordinates fight it out, and he picks winners. Besides, if squeezing Iran's economy doesn't work, he always has the option of letting Bolton have his way. He's not ready for that yet.
Point three: Maybe what he does cannot be considered strategic thinking, but surely in the New York City real estate world, he learned how to get the best of his enemies enough of the time. And let's not forget, he beat well over a dozen Republicans for the nomination that were far better people than him.
Point four: Yes, the Shia-Sunni conflict has been going on for centuries. The Saudis would like to see that come to a head. As long as Iran is defeated, they will be happy. Remember that among Saddam Hussein's last words were, "Down with the traitors, the Americans, the spies and the Persians. As a Sunni, he managed to include the Shiites along with the people he felt got him to the gallows. At that point, he was probably not posturing.
Point five: No Iranian under the age of fifty remembers anything about the pre-mullah government, so I agree, there may not be hostility towards the present theocracy that some would hope for. But regime change in Iran is not necessarily a goal of Trump or anybody else on the world stage. It is probably not achievable. However, if it happened, it would not be unwelcome.
UTUSN
(70,496 posts)* Yea, KUSHNER has influence, but I really think only from being married to Daddy's sick love object. The little of intellect KUSHNER puts out for us to see is not impressive, and there have been plenty of news items about the stakeholders in the Middle East as disdainful of him or laughing at him.
* Let's just say that the Peace Prize is totally off the table for this mob of idiots, no matter what the circumstances.
* His "success" in NYC or the Repuke primaries is a matter of his Mafia mob brutal tactics for the former and that the national primaries contenders were just taken totally by surprise since they were constrained by their establishment namby-pambyness.
* About regime change, I agree "it would not be unwelcome" - but again, if it happened a giant feather in SHITLER's cap.
I just don't see SHITLER as a player in the standard sense, only as a loose cannon. And, to your previous point about BOLTON, to me BOLTON is *NOT* a loose cannon because he knows what he has wanted for 35 years and gotten himself to the position of being a real player when SHITLER actually detests him even just for his mustache, and will do his damnedest to get his known goal behind SHITLER's back if he has to.
I just don't see how you give SHITLER so much credit. That's all I've got, so thanks, really enjoyed it.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)is not an evil genius, but he is sometimes crafty in his use of evil. He is always looking out for his own interests, 100% of the time. It's not giving him credit to say that he is always manipulative, and sometimes that benefits him.
UTUSN
(70,496 posts)My "brutal mob tactics" is the same as your more elegant "crafty/evil, own interests, manipulative/benefits him." Although I say that describing successful or efficient techniques is "giving credit."
It would have been faster/easier to start with "We agree," but this has been entertaining and satisfactory!1
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)for me as well! It seems that with primary season upon us, too many folks here have their emotions on a hair trigger. I salute you for sticking to the points made/offered/refuted.
flotsam
(3,268 posts)We blow the shit out of Tehran and in 50 small towns across the US Iranian "college students" release biological weapons. We hit Bushehr and three cruise ships out of the Port of Miami get torpedoed.... and on like that. Iran is an actual nation, not some band of wackos and if it comes to war they will inflict casualties.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)You're saying that there are Iranians already here, posing as college students, who have possession of biological weapons, right? That's an act of war just in itself. And if you're right, and even one of them releases bio-weapons, that's all the excuse we need to nuke ALL of Iran, and not just the leadership in Tehran.
LastLiberal in PalmSprings
(12,539 posts)Actually, given Fat Donnie's attitude toward nukes ("If we have them, why don't we use them?" ), Iran wouldn't be sand, it would be glass.
sarisataka
(18,220 posts)At the least
Unlikely.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Well lob some cruise missiles at some military targets and call it a day. Its all theater.
Maru Kitteh
(28,303 posts)herding cats
(19,549 posts)Trump's dick measuring contest here would have led to attacks on our Navy and worse by Iran. How or why this was averted/postponed I don't know, but I'm reliving.
Xolodno
(6,334 posts)....here's why.
I'm thinking Iran WANTS us to strike them.
1. It's a propaganda victory for them.
2. They want the S-400 missile system, Russia said "no" as to not disrupt the Mid East even more. But if we go through with it....Moscow may change its mine about making the sale to Tehran.
3. Lets be honest, Putin wants to sell the system to them. But acquiesced to outside pressure, we strike, then he has the perfect excuse.
They took down a drone, no big deal. It's not like they took down a commercial airplane filled with people.
maxsolomon
(32,992 posts)There's one thing all the power on this planet agrees on: The Spice must Flow, to quote Frank Herbert. The Strait of Hormuz must be open to oil tanker traffic, for ever and ever amen.
Everything else is bullshit.
To think, Obama made an agreement with Iran that they honored.