Unreliable reports of U.S., Russian Sub Battle

[orangecrush]

Not a good source, and hope isn't true, but...


Debka: Urgent Consultations in Washington, Moscow on Reported US-Russian Submarines in Firefight
NOTE: DEBKA has been proven unreliable in the past but at times they do get things right.

Jul 2, 2019 @ 22:24 Diane Shalem

First reports reaching DEBKAfile’s military sources say that a US submarine intercepted a Russian nuclear sub in American waters opposite Alaska. The Russian sub escorting the nuclear submarine responded with a Balkan 2000 torpedo and scuttled the US vessel. Urgent consultations in both the White House and the Kremlin were taking place on Tuesday night. US Vice President Mike Pence called off an appearance in New Hampshire after being recalled to Washington for a conference called by President Donald Trump without explanation.

Russian President Vladimir Putin cancelled an engagement and headed for the Kremlin to confer with Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and military chiefs, after learning that 14 submariners died in a fire that broke out on a nuclear-powered “experimental submarine in Russian waters.” This account carried in Russian media varies in most respects from the first reports reaching this site and may refer to a separate incident. They report between 14 and 17 members of an AS-12 nuclear powered submarine died of poisonous fumes caused by a fire aboard the vessel. The submarine was described as experimental and unarmed but often used in spy missions. It is unclear how many of the 25 crew survived. Local media suggest four or five are receiving treatment in Severomorsk’s military hospital for poisoning and concussion injuries. Another news account said the majority of the officers died in or on their way to hospital. These reports do not cite the cause of the fire.




https://www.debka.com/mivzak/urgent-consultations-in-washington-moscow-on-reported-us-russian-submarines-in-firefight/

[mahatmakanejeeves]

1. Well, that's swell. NT

[orangecrush]

3. Hopefully

it will turn out to be untrue.

[Tanuki]

2. Someone should call Sarah Palin and ask if she saw anything.

[orangecrush]

4. ...

[Laurian]

6. LOL!

I have to laugh to keep from crying. I feel like the whole fucking world is about to blow up thanks to the incompetent asshole in the White House.

[cwydro]

13. Thread win.

Nt

[malaise]

16. No one will top this

Brilliant

[blueinredohio]

37. That was funny

[tblue37]

5. ?? if the U.S. vessel was scuttled, then why only Russian casualties? nt

[orangecrush]

8. My read is

Putin may be using the fire on the experimental sub as cover for calling people in to Moscow.

[ProudLib72]

7. "Scuttle" is the DELIBERATE SINKING OF A SHIP BY ITS COMMANDER

What are they getting at here? Putin was the commander of the U.S. ship?

[orangecrush]

9. Bad phrasing.

This is an Israeli publication, perhaps a translation glitch?

[orangecrush]

10. here...

Definition of scuttle (Entry 3 of 5)
transitive verb

1 : to cut a hole through the bottom, deck, or side of (a ship)
specifically : to sink or attempt to sink by making holes through the bottom
2 : DESTROY, WRECK
also : SCRAP sense 2


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scuttle

[ProudLib72]

11. Here

Scuttling is the deliberate sinking of a ship by allowing water to flow into the hull. This can be achieved in several ways—seacocks or hatches can be opened to the sea, or holes may be ripped into the hull with brute force or with explosives. Scuttling may be performed to dispose of an abandoned, old, or captured vessel; to prevent the vessel from becoming a navigation hazard; as an act of self-destruction to prevent the ship from being captured by an enemy force (or, in the case of a vessel engaged in illegal activities, by the authorities); as a blockship to restrict navigation through a channel or within a harbor; to provide an artificial reef for divers and marine life; or to alter the flow of rivers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuttling

I suppose it could be done by someone who had captured the vessel, but what the article seems to be referring to is "sinking."

It's just weird wording. Maybe you are right about it being a bad translation from Hebrew.

[orangecrush]

14. Your definition is correct

probably just bad translation.

[Everyman Jackal]

12. Debka should look at a map before writting an article.

Severomorsk is nowhere near Alaska.

[orangecrush]

15. Severomorsk

is where the experimental Russian sub went, not the sub in the alleged firefight.

The experimental sub was possibly used as a cover story for Putin calling in his defense minister.

[Claritie Pixie]

17. A Russian nuclear spy sub caught on fire and 14 soldiers died per this story. No mention of US sub.

Here's a link to the story:

https://news.usni.org/2019/07/02/14-sailors-die-on-secretive-russian-nuclear-submarine

[WhiskeyGrinder]

18. "Balkan 2000" LMAOOOOOOOOO

[jpak]

21. Did a Google search for Balkan 2000 torpedo - got this

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

28. I think that's a Balkan 3000

[icymist]

19. Something is going on.

I've been searching all around the news for any word on this and have only found it on conservative sites. They are saying that an American submarine has been sunk off the coast of Alaska after engaging a Russian sub., which was damaged, but managed to return to it's base. Emergency meetings are taking place in Washington D.C., the Kremlin, the EU Security Council, and the British government.

Again, I am only reading this in conservative sites. I can't help but notice the timing; right after Iran announces it is enriching uranium in violation of the latest treaty. And the close look the House has been doing to tRump's concentration camps.

I don't trust Republicans. My Spidy sense says something is being arranged here.

[orangecrush]

20. Looks that way.

But something is definitely going on.

Pence called back and Putin calls an emergency meeting.

They wouldn't call Pence back over a fire on a Russian mini sub.

And apparently the right thinks this will somehow work to their advantage.

[icymist]

23. I've been looking around an don't believe there is no EU Security Council.

WTF are the bastards up to?

[LiberalArkie]

25. I guess one of those Iranian diesel subs sunk a U.S. sub and damaged a Russian sub?

[dewsgirl]

22. This piqued my interest, being reported on many fake news sites across twitter.(it's a new story

they often pounce and spin to benefit their narative). I did keep seeing a sentence about Trump wanting to keep this quite for two weeks...idk what to make of it. Could all be fake news. Neither government can be believed.

[Everyman Jackal]

24. Has anyone been able to find a reliable source

on the Balkan 2000 torpedo?

[sarisataka]

26. Unreliable is one word for it

Fictitious is another

[orangecrush]

29. Very possible.

[dawg day]

27. This doesn't make sense--

The Russian sub had all the casualties.
Unless we're not hearing about the US casualties from the torpedo?

Well, guess we'll know something soon.

[Everyman Jackal]

31. Maybe maybe not

If this did take place Trump may not want it known. In that case, in a few days, the sub will have an accident in very deep water too deep for a safe salvage operation. And since this sub would have been on a highly classified mission the Navy would not be able to use non-military salvage companies.

[Blue_Tires]

30. Debka is a shit source and should be ignored...

Pretty much Israel's Drudge Report/Breitbart...

I mean for fuck's sake they couldn't even copy+paste the correct details of the *basic* story...

[GuyNamedNathan]

36. Thanks for that info.

[orangecrush]

39. Noted the source as unreliable

But there are still no answers.

[Submariner]

32. This is from a Submarine BBS - no link yet

The VP returned to the WH instead of going to NH for a speech.
AP says:

But the sudden cancellation created confusion among White House and political reporters.

There is some speculation that the sudden cancellation has to do with a fire aboard a super secret Russian submarine.

The fire killed 14 Russian sailors, the Russian Defense Ministry said Tuesday without giving the cause of the blaze or saying if there were survivors.

The ministry didn’t name the vessel that caught fire Monday, but Russian media reported it was Russia’s most secret submarine, a nuclear-powered vessel designed for sensitive missions at great ocean depths.

Russian President Vladimir Putin also canceled a scheduled appearance and summoned his defense minister to get briefed on the situation.
The Defense Ministry’s statement said the submersible is intended for studying the seabed but didn’t give its name or type. Russia’s RBC online news outlet reported it was the nuclear-powered AS-12 Losharik.

The Losharik, which entered service in 2010, is the most advanced and most obscure Russian submarine. It’s named after a Soviet-era cartoon character, a toy horse made of small spheres.

The name is apparently explained by the unique design of its internal hull, which is made of several titanium spheres capable of withstanding high pressure at great depths.

In 2012, the Losharik was involved in research intended to prove Russia’s claim on the vast Arctic seabed. It collected samples from the depth of 8,202 feet, according to official statements at the time. Regular submarines can typically dive to depths of up to 2,000 feet.

Some observers speculated the Losharik was even capable of going as deep as 19,685 feet, but the claims couldn’t be independently confirmed. Analysts suggested that one of its possible missions could be disrupting communication cables on the ocean bed.

The Losharik is carried under the hull of a mother submarine, the nuclear-powered Orenburg.
Russian news reports said that while the Losharik officially belongs to the Northern Fleet, it answers directly to the Defense Ministry’s Department for Deep-Sea Research, reflecting the high sensitivity of its missions.

The Russian navy also uses Priz-class and Bester-class deep-water vehicles, which have a hull built of titanium and are capable of operating at a depth of 1,000 meters (3,281 feet). The small vehicles have a crew of two and are primarily intended for rescuing submariners in case of incidents. Such vessels are transported to the area of operation by a carrier vessel and can operate autonomously for up to 120 hours.

The blaze marks the most serious Russian naval incident since 2008, when 20 died when a firefighting system was accidentally initiated while the Nerpa nuclear-powered submarine of Russia’s Pacific Fleet was undergoing trials.

In the deadliest naval incident in post-Soviet Russia, the Kursk nuclear submarine exploded and sank on Aug. 12, 2000, during naval maneuvers in the Barents Sea, killing all 118 crewmembers.

T

[orangecrush]

38. Thanks for the information!

[GuyNamedNathan]

35. Seems like there are a lot of unreliable reports these days...